Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I called it right after the election:

Trump will blame everything bad that happens on Biden.

He'll get to do that for 2 years and then when the seats flip during the midterms and the Dems get power back, his excuse will flip to "I can't do anything b/c the Dems won't play ball. They won't work with me. Selfish people."

Yep. Just like Biden blamed everything that went wrong on Trump.

Remember the Afghan pull out. That disastrous pull out, Biden blamed it all on Trump…

It was Trump's terrible "deal" that caused all that nonsense. I mean, how stupid are you?

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Anonymous wrote:➡️ January 20: FAA director fired
➡️ January 21: Air Traffic Controller hiring frozen
➡️ January 22: Aviation Safety Advisory Committee disbanded
➡️ January 28: Buyout/retirement demand sent to existing employees
➡️ January 29: First American mid-air collision in 16 years

Making America Great Again!

So they sabotaged it? I doubt that very much. I have a higher opinion of FAA employees than you do.

Not sabotage. Stress.

Remember that one of Trump’s people said their goal was to “traumatize federal employees.”

Was this actually an ATC error? I thought it was mainly the helicopter error.

No one knows yet.

To me, it does look like some element of ATC error. It clearly was not communicating to both the helicopter and the airplane that they were headed straight for each other and need to take action.

That’s not true, the tower clearly advised the helicopter about the traffic, which plane it was and where it was going. Then they confirm visual separation. Then they actually do see it and tell the helicopter to go behind the plane. I don’t think there’s any way from what we could hear that the tower would anticipate the helicopter flying into the plane, but obviously we have limited info. But the tower does contact the helicopter before the crash.

It’s also amazing how he stayed so calm and redirected the other planes, especially that American pilot who was kind of a d$& about it.

But clearly the helicopter didn’t understand which plane the ATC had identified and that is part of the problem. We don’t know all of what was said, but it’s the ATCs job to make sure all the planes headed into the runway are aware of each other, on correct course and don’t collide, and that didn’t happen.

Did you listen to the ATC recording? That did happen. The controller confirmed with the BH pilot that he saw the airplane. The pilot confirmed he did.

NP From what I read there was more than just one airplane around as it's a busy landing approach path, and the pilot might have said that yes, he saw the plane, meaning another, and never saw this one.

If you actually listen to the ATC recording while watching the radar recording, you will understand this doesn't make sense. There is ONE plane in the helo's line of sight, it's right in front of them.

You hear the ATC asking for visual confirmation from the helo, getting it, and then directing the helo to go behind the plane (something the helo is designed to do).

And then impact.

There is ZERO evidence this is on ATC. Based on that, I would be waiting to get the black box from the helo, which may show a malfunction that prevented them from turning to go behind the plane. Or it could have been a medical event, which we may never know. Or just human error from the pilot, though that's harder to believe because military pilots receive training that you would expect to prevent that kind of error.

But there is no indication ATC screwed up and the implication that it was their fault makes no sense based on the current info.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I was an air traffic controller, I'd quit. Walk. Bring this joke of a country to its knees.

Trump says they aren't qualified individuals, so leave. Let him try to staff it with people he deems qualified.

The US has never invested in any infrastructure outside of air travel. Let the US crumble because of its terrible, greedy decisions.

They need to quit in masse. That would incredible. Oh, please, please, please do it.

This. And everyone who works for a company that announced they were rolling back DEI. See how they fare without their diverse staff.

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Anonymous wrote:NP. This is 100% the fault of the military helicopter. They flew into the AA regional jet’s right rear side which was seconds away from touching down. There was nothing the AA pilots could have done, and nothing the Air traffic controllers could have done. The controllers were managing landing a passenger airplane every 2 minutes (!) up until this point, as they do every day at this airport! Terrible tragedy and 100% the helicopter flew directly into the right mid/rear of the passenger airplane. They should not fly training missions at night so close to the busiest airport of the nations capital.

Hegseth has already said the helicopter collided with the airliner in his video.

^ I hope law firms are paying attention, including those who will represent American Airlines, ATC employees, airport authority, etc.

You can't sue the US military for this. Immunity.

It makes his new SECDEF look bad, and to distract media he blames former Presidents (why Obama it's always something to do with Obama). Families will sue. That's why's he's pouting, spouting out nonsense. As a DEI hire himself (old age) by millions of clueless voters, he needs to step aside and let knowledgeable people do their job. Sad.

Its normal for helicopters to turn off their transponders in and out of Langley. He turned it back on over Lawton St. Now all the tinfoil hat people are going to lose their shit.

Trump administration off to a rousing start.

Anonymous wrote:I can't with this moron.

"We had the highest standards when I was in office. They changed it all. Biden changed it and made it worse and look what happens."

"The helicopter could have stopped. It could have turned. Veered."

Please, some reporter ask what roll HIS cuts and firings played in this. HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE.

So are we to assume that the BH pilot was a POC or woman given this crap? Or the ATCs at issue?

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Anonymous wrote:NP. This is 100% the fault of the military helicopter. They flew into the AA regional jet’s right rear side which was seconds away from touching down. There was nothing the AA pilots could have done, and nothing the Air traffic controllers could have done. The controllers were managing landing a passenger airplane every 2 minutes (!) up until this point, as they do every day at this airport! Terrible tragedy and 100% the helicopter flew directly into the right mid/rear of the passenger airplane. They should not fly training missions at night so close to the busiest airport of the nations capital.

Hegseth has already said the helicopter collided with the airliner in his video.

^ I hope law firms are paying attention, including those who will represent American Airlines, ATC employees, airport authority, etc.

You can't sue the US military for this. Immunity.

Please don't tell them. They already know everything.

Anonymous wrote:Trump's comms team did not advise him well on this. Blaming it on DEI and implying the air traffic controllers may have messed up because they have psychiatric disabilities is not wise. Also, the FAA's rules around disabilities are the same as every federal agencies. The rules are nothing new and were in place during Trump's first term. He is saying ATCs are mentally incompetent. He doesn't even know who made the mistake at this point.

This is from the Federal Aviation Administration before trump:

Individuals with targeted or “severe” disabilities are the most under-represented segment of the Federal workforce. The People with Disabilities Program (PWD) ensures that people with disabilities have equal Federal employment opportunities. The FAA actively recruits, hires, promotes, retains, develops and advances people with disabilities.

The FAA meets the goals of the PWD Program through a variety of practices:

Targeted disabilities are those disabilities that the Federal government, as a matter of policy, has identified for special emphasis in recruitment and hiring. They include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability and dwarfism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I was an air traffic controller, I'd quit. Walk. Bring this joke of a country to its knees.

Trump says they aren't qualified individuals, so leave. Let him try to staff it with people he deems qualified.

The US has never invested in any infrastructure outside of air travel. Let the US crumble because of its terrible, greedy decisions.

They need to quit in masse. That would incredible. Oh, please, please, please do it.

And do what? This is what they are trained to do, this is their career. There are not massive amounts of jobs for ATCs. They have a very stressful job and I feel for each and every person in that tower, and the others on high alert every day.

The media is complicit. They never call out Trump even at his most outrageous. Meanwhile they mercilessly picked Biden apart for even the smallest misstep. The country is truly doomed.

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Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have any experience with how this type of wreckage impacts use of the river in the near future? Thank god the river was mostly frozen and not being used by recreational boaters.

Mostly frozen? Temps have been above freezing for several days.

Well large sections of the river were still frozen know-it-all, whether you understand that or not.

(How arrogant many posters are. Multiple people said they saw ice with their own eyes but you still think you are right!)

Stop it with the ice chunks. This isn’t Lake Michigan, it’s a briney river with a 6-8 foot tide every day that never freezes beyond some chunks and shoreline stuff.

Nothing to do with needing an icebreaker to get to the debris or damage. Yes divers need dry suits this time of year.

Terrible tragic accident. Unless we find out someone was way off protocol or not focusing.

Are you totally unaware of the fact that ice badly hampered rescue and recovery after a truck veered off Memorial Bridge and into the Potomac very recently? Yes, the Potomac can get seriously iced in winter. Beyond mere "chunks and shoreline stuff." No one is saying it's like Lake Michigan, but ice here is not always the minimal ice you insist it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump's comms team did not advise him well on this. Blaming it on DEI and implying the air traffic controllers may have messed up because they have psychiatric disabilities is not wise. Also, the FAA's rules around disabilities are the same as every federal agencies. The rules are nothing new and were in place during Trump's first term. He is saying ATCs are mentally incompetent. He doesn't even know who made the mistake at this point.

It just doesn’t matter. His idiotic supporters will parrot anything he says.

+1 sadly. When I was listening to him, I could imagine any of my old Republican relatives and neighbors literally saying the same thing even before he spoke. “Well I heard on Fox and Friends that they are letting people with MENTAL DISABILITIES be air traffic control! Can you believe it??? I taught kids with mental disabilities for 30 years and they can’t even run a register at McDonalds! Unbelievable but o guess that’s what the Democrats and Joe Biden are all about.”

One of the insane things about that press conference is Trump and his lackeys spend 20 minutes explaining the crash happened because of DEI, blames firmer presidents for sticking them with not the "best people," claiming we don't have good technology, etc.

Then a reporter asks, reasonably, "Is it safe for people to fly?"

And Trump's like "oh yes, of course, no problems, everyone should feel fine flying."

Idiocracy.

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Anonymous wrote:The water is below freezing. A doctor said 30 minutes is longest they could last. I hope I am wrong.

You are wrong. The water is a few degrees above freezing. Otherwise, it would be ice. Doesn't matter though. They died during the tremendous acceleration forces in the collision.

It was stated at 30 degrees and you are calling the doctor wrong. I just posted what he said. But of course you would know better.

A doctor is not a meteorologist.

https://seatemperature.info/washington-dc-water-temperature.html

35.6F. The Potomac is not "briny" in anyway. If it's liquid, it's above 32F. Please don't ignore The Science(TM).

Brackish

Brinish is for cooking but same concept.

All the snow salt also drains into the river

Not enough to matter. The Potomac is classified as fresh water.