Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your infant takes a 2-hr am nap and a 2-hr pm nap, and sleeps like 11-12 hours a night, then your infant is only awake 9 hours a day. All these folks saying, well my nanny only spent 3-4 waking hours with my kid...I mean, I get that "3" and "4" sound like small numbers, but it is a full 30-40% of your child's waking hours. That's of course a meaningful difference in what you could be spending if you stayed home (and again, that's assuming you have a very good napper).

I'm a FT working mom, btw.

Me again - also what is this talk about 3 year olds going to preschool 5 days a week from 9-1? The majority of the SAHMs in my area send their 3 yr olds to preschool for 3 mornings a week (pick up at lunch). Haven't you heard of the "3 days 3's"? It's very silly to make up all these numbers and schedules. Certainly pre-ES, of course SAHMs spend an appreciably larger percentage of their kids' waking hours with them than do most WOHM (at least those with fairly typical schedules). How silly to pretend otherwise!

Yes it is true most SAHM's that are wealthy and poor send their kids to 5 days of preschool because of the value it adds. For the poor it's free and for the wealthy it's not a big deal.

But if you give up an income and have to skrimp I understand you can't send your kids 5 days a week and that's fine, they will be fine.

I live in a UMC suburb. The wealthy SAHMs here do "3 day 3's" -- preschool 3 mornings a week. They don't see a value beyond that amount of preschool time for a 3 yr old.

Our SAHM do preschool 5 days and aftercare 2-3 days a week (easier than playdates which have to be planned). Aftercare just ended up being easier than trying to figure out playdate in the middle of dinner.

I find this very hard to believe! Here (again, wealthy area with lots of SAHMs) the typical schedule is:

3yr olds - preschool 3 mornings a week (typically 9 to noon)
4 yr olds (i.e. "pre-k" year) - 5 days a week (typically 9-1)...some families do "enrichment" add-ons until 3ish one or two days a week
Then no aftercare once in ES, but some after-school ECs, playground meet-ups, etc.

+1
Our preschool was around 3 hrs / 3 days for pre-3, and 4 hours / 4 days for pre-K. Anything beyond those hours typically falls under the daycare umbrella.

+1

This is why we had a full time nanny.

OP to get back to topic. No, I don’t get offended that someone is so myopic as to believe their singular view is correct. I pity their ignorance and judge them accordingly. Lots of great SAHMs, WOHMs, nannies, SAHDs, WOHDs, grandparents, etc. As long as all the kids’ needs get met physically and emotionally - it’s all good.

Can you provide a link to preschools with 3x a week for 3 hours.

We also have a full time nanny for the infant but our 3 year old does 5 days a week preschool, because I can't find one that does 3 days a week. NW ish area or Bethesda would work.

Any church or temple based preschool is like this if they are not also trying to be a daycare. Methodist, Presbyterian or Episcopal are the most likely to offer preschool and typically very affordable because you aren't having to pay a lot extra for overhead - the church already has the space. Standard schedule is often 9am-12pm, some offer a "lunch bunch" from 12-1 or 1:30 or something like that and some just include it for everyone. They often still use the classroom 5 days a week but its shared between two classes. Ie: 3 day 3's use the classroom on MWF and 2 day 2's use the same room on TTH.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your infant takes a 2-hr am nap and a 2-hr pm nap, and sleeps like 11-12 hours a night, then your infant is only awake 9 hours a day. All these folks saying, well my nanny only spent 3-4 waking hours with my kid...I mean, I get that "3" and "4" sound like small numbers, but it is a full 30-40% of your child's waking hours. That's of course a meaningful difference in what you could be spending if you stayed home (and again, that's assuming you have a very good napper).

I'm a FT working mom, btw.

Me again - also what is this talk about 3 year olds going to preschool 5 days a week from 9-1? The majority of the SAHMs in my area send their 3 yr olds to preschool for 3 mornings a week (pick up at lunch). Haven't you heard of the "3 days 3's"? It's very silly to make up all these numbers and schedules. Certainly pre-ES, of course SAHMs spend an appreciably larger percentage of their kids' waking hours with them than do most WOHM (at least those with fairly typical schedules). How silly to pretend otherwise!

Yes it is true most SAHM's that are wealthy and poor send their kids to 5 days of preschool because of the value it adds. For the poor it's free and for the wealthy it's not a big deal.

But if you give up an income and have to skrimp I understand you can't send your kids 5 days a week and that's fine, they will be fine.

I live in a UMC suburb. The wealthy SAHMs here do "3 day 3's" -- preschool 3 mornings a week. They don't see a value beyond that amount of preschool time for a 3 yr old.

Our SAHM do preschool 5 days and aftercare 2-3 days a week (easier than playdates which have to be planned). Aftercare just ended up being easier than trying to figure out playdate in the middle of dinner.

I find this very hard to believe! Here (again, wealthy area with lots of SAHMs) the typical schedule is:

3yr olds - preschool 3 mornings a week (typically 9 to noon)
4 yr olds (i.e. "pre-k" year) - 5 days a week (typically 9-1)...some families do "enrichment" add-ons until 3ish one or two days a week
Then no aftercare once in ES, but some after-school ECs, playground meet-ups, etc.

+1
Our preschool was around 3 hrs / 3 days for pre-3, and 4 hours / 4 days for pre-K. Anything beyond those hours typically falls under the daycare umbrella.

+1

This is why we had a full time nanny.

OP to get back to topic. No, I don’t get offended that someone is so myopic as to believe their singular view is correct. I pity their ignorance and judge them accordingly. Lots of great SAHMs, WOHMs, nannies, SAHDs, WOHDs, grandparents, etc. As long as all the kids’ needs get met physically and emotionally - it’s all good.

Can you provide a link to preschools with 3x a week for 3 hours.

We also have a full time nanny for the infant but our 3 year old does 5 days a week preschool, because I can't find one that does 3 days a week. NW ish area or Bethesda would work.

This is how most church preschools operate. I’ve sent my kids to 4 different ones as we moved around. The 3s were 2/3 days a week, 4s were 3-5 days a week and the 5s were 5 days a week. Or some combination similar. Hours were typically 9-12 with something like a lunch bunch from 12-2 or other enrichment program for an hour to two after. This is how the other half lives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your infant takes a 2-hr am nap and a 2-hr pm nap, and sleeps like 11-12 hours a night, then your infant is only awake 9 hours a day. All these folks saying, well my nanny only spent 3-4 waking hours with my kid...I mean, I get that "3" and "4" sound like small numbers, but it is a full 30-40% of your child's waking hours. That's of course a meaningful difference in what you could be spending if you stayed home (and again, that's assuming you have a very good napper).

I'm a FT working mom, btw.

There are 168 hours in a week.
Infants are awake for 63 of those hours.
I see my kids 48 of those hours, you see your kid 63 of those hours.
I see my kids 28% of the time, you see your kids 37% of the time.
It's 23% of their waking time... 15 hours.

Thanks for pointing out how little actual time is spent "raising" your kids.... lol 37% of your time.

Well, first, like I said, I'm a FT working mom. My kids are in ES now, but when my oldest was an infant we had a nanny. I was gone from 8 to 4. This DD actually was a "unicorn" napper who took an am nap from 9-11 and a pm nap from 1:30 to 3:30. So I missed out on 3.5 waking hours of time with my DD M-F. A lot of PPs (you included) think that is a small amount, but I don't think it is percentage wise. It was like a full third to almost 40% of her 9 waking hours each weekday! No one is raising their kids during their sleeping hours -- those 9 hours are all we have to work with and all that matter for this dicussion. I missed out on a bit more than a third to 40% of them each day. It's a lot to me. (With my second I had a WFH job which meant my younger DD was with a nanny or later daycare more like 9 to 3:30, and I felt much better about that percentage of time away.) But I guess it's all personal...

What you are missing are the waking hours SAHM's are not watching their kids. That isn't even taken into account. How often did you get home from work and say to your H - tag you are it I need a break and how many SAHM's don't take any break when their H gets home.

The reality is they are spending less time in the evening because they have help - that's a good thing. They've been with their child all day and they will give the care over to their H.

and

You are not using that time to not be with your child because you were away during the day.

So if you took actual hour.. it's equal.

Please stop embarrassing yourself. It's not equal, and that's not what routinely happens in most SAHM households. But even if it were...I though this thread was about having paid caregivers raise/partially raise your kids. A father, OTOH, spending evenings with his children sounds wonderful; who in the world thinks otherwise?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your infant takes a 2-hr am nap and a 2-hr pm nap, and sleeps like 11-12 hours a night, then your infant is only awake 9 hours a day. All these folks saying, well my nanny only spent 3-4 waking hours with my kid...I mean, I get that "3" and "4" sound like small numbers, but it is a full 30-40% of your child's waking hours. That's of course a meaningful difference in what you could be spending if you stayed home (and again, that's assuming you have a very good napper).

I'm a FT working mom, btw.

Me again - also what is this talk about 3 year olds going to preschool 5 days a week from 9-1? The majority of the SAHMs in my area send their 3 yr olds to preschool for 3 mornings a week (pick up at lunch). Haven't you heard of the "3 days 3's"? It's very silly to make up all these numbers and schedules. Certainly pre-ES, of course SAHMs spend an appreciably larger percentage of their kids' waking hours with them than do most WOHM (at least those with fairly typical schedules). How silly to pretend otherwise!

Yes it is true most SAHM's that are wealthy and poor send their kids to 5 days of preschool because of the value it adds. For the poor it's free and for the wealthy it's not a big deal.

But if you give up an income and have to skrimp I understand you can't send your kids 5 days a week and that's fine, they will be fine.

I live in a UMC suburb. The wealthy SAHMs here do "3 day 3's" -- preschool 3 mornings a week. They don't see a value beyond that amount of preschool time for a 3 yr old.

Our SAHM do preschool 5 days and aftercare 2-3 days a week (easier than playdates which have to be planned). Aftercare just ended up being easier than trying to figure out playdate in the middle of dinner.

I find this very hard to believe! Here (again, wealthy area with lots of SAHMs) the typical schedule is:

3yr olds - preschool 3 mornings a week (typically 9 to noon)
4 yr olds (i.e. "pre-k" year) - 5 days a week (typically 9-1)...some families do "enrichment" add-ons until 3ish one or two days a week
Then no aftercare once in ES, but some after-school ECs, playground meet-ups, etc.

Beauvoir and most preschools don't even offer 3 days a week, let alone a measly 2

What do you mean "measly 2"? No one here does two days a week. I said the three year olds go 3 mornings a week. I was saying that a lot of our preschools often offer "enrichment" options for otherwise enrolled kids...so, for example, if you are enrolled in the 5-day a week pre-k class from 9-1, then two days a week you could add "Spanish" or "nature explorers" or whatever, and extend your day to 3:00 those days.

There are preschools only open 3x a week, where? Can you provide a link?

I’m from central NJ and that’s standard. 2.5 and 3’s are 2-3 days a week for about three hours. Kindergarten is half day only or the private offer generally 9-2 pm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your infant takes a 2-hr am nap and a 2-hr pm nap, and sleeps like 11-12 hours a night, then your infant is only awake 9 hours a day. All these folks saying, well my nanny only spent 3-4 waking hours with my kid...I mean, I get that "3" and "4" sound like small numbers, but it is a full 30-40% of your child's waking hours. That's of course a meaningful difference in what you could be spending if you stayed home (and again, that's assuming you have a very good napper).

I'm a FT working mom, btw.

There are 168 hours in a week.
Infants are awake for 63 of those hours.
I see my kids 48 of those hours, you see your kid 63 of those hours.
I see my kids 28% of the time, you see your kids 37% of the time.
It's 23% of their waking time... 15 hours.

Thanks for pointing out how little actual time is spent "raising" your kids.... lol 37% of your time.

Well, first, like I said, I'm a FT working mom. My kids are in ES now, but when my oldest was an infant we had a nanny. I was gone from 8 to 4. This DD actually was a "unicorn" napper who took an am nap from 9-11 and a pm nap from 1:30 to 3:30. So I missed out on 3.5 waking hours of time with my DD M-F. A lot of PPs (you included) think that is a small amount, but I don't think it is percentage wise. It was like a full third to almost 40% of her 9 waking hours each weekday! No one is raising their kids during their sleeping hours -- those 9 hours are all we have to work with and all that matter for this dicussion. I missed out on a bit more than a third to 40% of them each day. It's a lot to me. (With my second I had a WFH job which meant my younger DD was with a nanny or later daycare more like 9 to 3:30, and I felt much better about that percentage of time away.) But I guess it's all personal...

What you are missing are the waking hours SAHM's are not watching their kids. That isn't even taken into account. How often did you get home from work and say to your H - tag you are it I need a break and how many SAHM's don't take any break when their H gets home.

The reality is they are spending less time in the evening because they have help - that's a good thing. They've been with their child all day and they will give the care over to their H.

and

You are not using that time to not be with your child because you were away during the day.

So if you took actual hour.. it's equal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you all arguing about schedules and hours? You don't need to prove something how your schedule is superior to someone else. People have different lives, so what

Well this whole thread is about how many hours you spend with your kids so....

And of course SAHM’s spend more, so the whole argument is stupid.

The difference is nominal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your infant takes a 2-hr am nap and a 2-hr pm nap, and sleeps like 11-12 hours a night, then your infant is only awake 9 hours a day. All these folks saying, well my nanny only spent 3-4 waking hours with my kid...I mean, I get that "3" and "4" sound like small numbers, but it is a full 30-40% of your child's waking hours. That's of course a meaningful difference in what you could be spending if you stayed home (and again, that's assuming you have a very good napper).

I'm a FT working mom, btw.

Me again - also what is this talk about 3 year olds going to preschool 5 days a week from 9-1? The majority of the SAHMs in my area send their 3 yr olds to preschool for 3 mornings a week (pick up at lunch). Haven't you heard of the "3 days 3's"? It's very silly to make up all these numbers and schedules. Certainly pre-ES, of course SAHMs spend an appreciably larger percentage of their kids' waking hours with them than do most WOHM (at least those with fairly typical schedules). How silly to pretend otherwise!

Yes it is true most SAHM's that are wealthy and poor send their kids to 5 days of preschool because of the value it adds. For the poor it's free and for the wealthy it's not a big deal.

But if you give up an income and have to skrimp I understand you can't send your kids 5 days a week and that's fine, they will be fine.

I live in a UMC suburb. The wealthy SAHMs here do "3 day 3's" -- preschool 3 mornings a week. They don't see a value beyond that amount of preschool time for a 3 yr old.

Our SAHM do preschool 5 days and aftercare 2-3 days a week (easier than playdates which have to be planned). Aftercare just ended up being easier than trying to figure out playdate in the middle of dinner.

I find this very hard to believe! Here (again, wealthy area with lots of SAHMs) the typical schedule is:

3yr olds - preschool 3 mornings a week (typically 9 to noon)
4 yr olds (i.e. "pre-k" year) - 5 days a week (typically 9-1)...some families do "enrichment" add-ons until 3ish one or two days a week
Then no aftercare once in ES, but some after-school ECs, playground meet-ups, etc.

+1
Our preschool was around 3 hrs / 3 days for pre-3, and 4 hours / 4 days for pre-K. Anything beyond those hours typically falls under the daycare umbrella.

+1

This is why we had a full time nanny.

OP to get back to topic. No, I don’t get offended that someone is so myopic as to believe their singular view is correct. I pity their ignorance and judge them accordingly. Lots of great SAHMs, WOHMs, nannies, SAHDs, WOHDs, grandparents, etc. As long as all the kids’ needs get met physically and emotionally - it’s all good.

Can you provide a link to preschools with 3x a week for 3 hours.

We also have a full time nanny for the infant but our 3 year old does 5 days a week preschool, because I can't find one that does 3 days a week. NW ish area or Bethesda would work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your infant takes a 2-hr am nap and a 2-hr pm nap, and sleeps like 11-12 hours a night, then your infant is only awake 9 hours a day. All these folks saying, well my nanny only spent 3-4 waking hours with my kid...I mean, I get that "3" and "4" sound like small numbers, but it is a full 30-40% of your child's waking hours. That's of course a meaningful difference in what you could be spending if you stayed home (and again, that's assuming you have a very good napper).

I'm a FT working mom, btw.

Me again - also what is this talk about 3 year olds going to preschool 5 days a week from 9-1? The majority of the SAHMs in my area send their 3 yr olds to preschool for 3 mornings a week (pick up at lunch). Haven't you heard of the "3 days 3's"? It's very silly to make up all these numbers and schedules. Certainly pre-ES, of course SAHMs spend an appreciably larger percentage of their kids' waking hours with them than do most WOHM (at least those with fairly typical schedules). How silly to pretend otherwise!

Yes it is true most SAHM's that are wealthy and poor send their kids to 5 days of preschool because of the value it adds. For the poor it's free and for the wealthy it's not a big deal.

But if you give up an income and have to skrimp I understand you can't send your kids 5 days a week and that's fine, they will be fine.

I live in a UMC suburb. The wealthy SAHMs here do "3 day 3's" -- preschool 3 mornings a week. They don't see a value beyond that amount of preschool time for a 3 yr old.

Our SAHM do preschool 5 days and aftercare 2-3 days a week (easier than playdates which have to be planned). Aftercare just ended up being easier than trying to figure out playdate in the middle of dinner.

I find this very hard to believe! Here (again, wealthy area with lots of SAHMs) the typical schedule is:

3yr olds - preschool 3 mornings a week (typically 9 to noon)
4 yr olds (i.e. "pre-k" year) - 5 days a week (typically 9-1)...some families do "enrichment" add-ons until 3ish one or two days a week
Then no aftercare once in ES, but some after-school ECs, playground meet-ups, etc.

Beauvoir and most preschools don't even offer 3 days a week, let alone a measly 2

What do you mean "measly 2"? No one here does two days a week. I said the three year olds go 3 mornings a week. I was saying that a lot of our preschools often offer "enrichment" options for otherwise enrolled kids...so, for example, if you are enrolled in the 5-day a week pre-k class from 9-1, then two days a week you could add "Spanish" or "nature explorers" or whatever, and extend your day to 3:00 those days.

There are preschools only open 3x a week, where? Can you provide a link?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your infant takes a 2-hr am nap and a 2-hr pm nap, and sleeps like 11-12 hours a night, then your infant is only awake 9 hours a day. All these folks saying, well my nanny only spent 3-4 waking hours with my kid...I mean, I get that "3" and "4" sound like small numbers, but it is a full 30-40% of your child's waking hours. That's of course a meaningful difference in what you could be spending if you stayed home (and again, that's assuming you have a very good napper).

I'm a FT working mom, btw.

There are 168 hours in a week.
Infants are awake for 63 of those hours.
I see my kids 48 of those hours, you see your kid 63 of those hours.
I see my kids 28% of the time, you see your kids 37% of the time.
It's 23% of their waking time... 15 hours.

Thanks for pointing out how little actual time is spent "raising" your kids.... lol 37% of your time.

Well, first, like I said, I'm a FT working mom. My kids are in ES now, but when my oldest was an infant we had a nanny. I was gone from 8 to 4. This DD actually was a "unicorn" napper who took an am nap from 9-11 and a pm nap from 1:30 to 3:30. So I missed out on 3.5 waking hours of time with my DD M-F. A lot of PPs (you included) think that is a small amount, but I don't think it is percentage wise. It was like a full third to almost 40% of her 9 waking hours each weekday! No one is raising their kids during their sleeping hours -- those 9 hours are all we have to work with and all that matter for this dicussion. I missed out on a bit more than a third to 40% of them each day. It's a lot to me. (With my second I had a WFH job which meant my younger DD was with a nanny or later daycare more like 9 to 3:30, and I felt much better about that percentage of time away.) But I guess it's all personal...

I also had a similar schedule. A baby doesn’t sleep that much forever. Sure, maybe the first year. I can’t remember. I’m sure you spent plenty of time with your kid as did I. Theee people trying to calculate how much they spend with their kids are annoying.

I was a working mom and a SAHM. I spent more time with my kids when I was a SAHM. The end.

NP. The point you're missing is "time" doesn't mean just hours of proximity. The point people are trying to make is quality time, not simply the passage of time, is what matters. Of course a SAHM spends more hours with her kids. She's home with them all day. But when you take out sleeping hours and hours spent doing other things like errands/laundry, etc., the hours of quality time spent are fewer than the hours of just time spent. If a WOHM outsources everything like cleaning/laundry and therefore spends all her non-working awake hours 1:1 with her kids, then that increases the number of hours of quality time she is able to spend. So the people saying WOHMs spend more time with their kids than SAHMs do are nuts and the people saying SAHMs spend all their waking hours 1:1 with their kids are nuts. The truth lies closer to the middle so just acknowledge that and stop arguing about these insane schedules and children who either sleep all day or never napped more than 7 minutes at a time.

What?? It is a tiny percentage of working mothers that can outsource all cleaning and laundry.

funny how it's the mother who is outsourcing, not the dad - like it's the mother's rsponsibility unless SHE finds an alternative

I noticed this too. Dads get to be exempt from the parenting debate, also exempt from laundry duty.

Yes not one "i raise my own kids" person thinks their H's are raising their kids ... so odd.

Dad's outsource oil changes, fixing the car, cutting the lawn, painting, dry wall, replacing the kitchen cabinets, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work and I'm secure in my choices and not easily offended. However, no SAHM has ever said that to me, and I wonder what OP said to the SAHM to get that kind of response?

I never heard anything like this when I was a working mom. There were times when I felt guilty for not having as much time with my kids but SAHMs didn’t say these rude comments to me.

I’m a SAHM now and I do get some rude comments by working moms. Some are back handed compliments like how it must be nice to have a rich husband so I can shop and travel as much as I want or how they could never stay at home all day or they couldn’t wait to go back to work because their brain wasn’t being used. I don’t really get bothered and move on. I don’t jab back.

I’ve always worked and none of my SAHM friends have said this. I’ve had people talk to me about how their husband’s inflexible job combined with their inflexible job would have meant their child was going to be with a nanny 12 hours a day if they didn’t SAH or that when they cut back to PT to get flexibility they got paid less but were still responsible for a similar amount of work. I and other working moms I know have also been told by our female bosses (both with and without children) 100x times that they don’t know how we can parent well and work in our jobs, I have had men and women who I work with publicly question if I intended to quit when I had my third child, my friend was asked “what her goals were with work” after coming back from mat leave after having a third, we both had our bonuses docked pretty severely after taking 16 weeks of mat leave (different companies), and I have had childless 25 year olds on my team condescend to me about raiding kids, my priorities, and childcare. A 25 year old chided me last winter for not having a full time back up childcare provider when our nanny suddenly took a few days off to undergo testing for what her doctor thought was uterine cancer. This is actually the same person who, after three years of me saying that I can’t take meetings between 5:45-8, because I am doing dinner and bedtime with my kids, routinely schedules work meetings during that time (and I make myself available between 8-10 for meetings, when my kids are in bed). I’ve actually pretty much exclusively received sh*t from working women.

Anonymous wrote:There is a group of FT WOHMs who will have us believe that they spend only a teeeeeny bit less QT time with their pre-ES kids than SAHMs do. But all the following must hold:

- infants nap 4 hours a day
- toddlers and preschoolers do not drop their afternoon nap until kindergarten
- it's "very easy" for the couple to stagger hours, so mom gets home at 3 and dad doesn't need to start work until 9:30
- dual-working families "outsource everything" and never do household chores when the kids are awake
- SAHMs spend substantial time when their kids are home and awake doing chores, running errands, and/or plopping them in front of tv
- SAHMs start sending their kids to preschool 5 days a week anyways at age 3

I am a former working mom who used to outsource as much as I possibly could. I still had plenty of errands, cooking and cleaning to do and this is with a FT nanny who cooked for us 5 times per week and did our laundry.

There is a group of FT WOHMs who will have us believe that they spend only a teeeeeny bit less QT time with their pre-ES kids than SAHMs do. But all the following must hold:

- infants nap 4 hours a day
- toddlers and preschoolers do not drop their afternoon nap until kindergarten
- it's "very easy" for the couple to stagger hours, so mom gets home at 3 and dad doesn't need to start work until 9:30
- dual-working families "outsource everything" and never do household chores when the kids are awake
- SAHMs spend substantial time when their kids are home and awake doing chores, running errands, and/or plopping them in front of tv
- SAHMs start sending their kids to preschool 5 days a week anyways at age 3

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your infant takes a 2-hr am nap and a 2-hr pm nap, and sleeps like 11-12 hours a night, then your infant is only awake 9 hours a day. All these folks saying, well my nanny only spent 3-4 waking hours with my kid...I mean, I get that "3" and "4" sound like small numbers, but it is a full 30-40% of your child's waking hours. That's of course a meaningful difference in what you could be spending if you stayed home (and again, that's assuming you have a very good napper).

I'm a FT working mom, btw.

There are 168 hours in a week.
Infants are awake for 63 of those hours.
I see my kids 48 of those hours, you see your kid 63 of those hours.
I see my kids 28% of the time, you see your kids 37% of the time.
It's 23% of their waking time... 15 hours.

Thanks for pointing out how little actual time is spent "raising" your kids.... lol 37% of your time.

Well, first, like I said, I'm a FT working mom. My kids are in ES now, but when my oldest was an infant we had a nanny. I was gone from 8 to 4. This DD actually was a "unicorn" napper who took an am nap from 9-11 and a pm nap from 1:30 to 3:30. So I missed out on 3.5 waking hours of time with my DD M-F. A lot of PPs (you included) think that is a small amount, but I don't think it is percentage wise. It was like a full third to almost 40% of her 9 waking hours each weekday! No one is raising their kids during their sleeping hours -- those 9 hours are all we have to work with and all that matter for this dicussion. I missed out on a bit more than a third to 40% of them each day. It's a lot to me. (With my second I had a WFH job which meant my younger DD was with a nanny or later daycare more like 9 to 3:30, and I felt much better about that percentage of time away.) But I guess it's all personal...

I also had a similar schedule. A baby doesn’t sleep that much forever. Sure, maybe the first year. I can’t remember. I’m sure you spent plenty of time with your kid as did I. Theee people trying to calculate how much they spend with their kids are annoying.

I was a working mom and a SAHM. I spent more time with my kids when I was a SAHM. The end.

NP. The point you're missing is "time" doesn't mean just hours of proximity. The point people are trying to make is quality time, not simply the passage of time, is what matters. Of course a SAHM spends more hours with her kids. She's home with them all day. But when you take out sleeping hours and hours spent doing other things like errands/laundry, etc., the hours of quality time spent are fewer than the hours of just time spent. If a WOHM outsources everything like cleaning/laundry and therefore spends all her non-working awake hours 1:1 with her kids, then that increases the number of hours of quality time she is able to spend. So the people saying WOHMs spend more time with their kids than SAHMs do are nuts and the people saying SAHMs spend all their waking hours 1:1 with their kids are nuts. The truth lies closer to the middle so just acknowledge that and stop arguing about these insane schedules and children who either sleep all day or never napped more than 7 minutes at a time.

Most WOHM can’t and don’t outsource everything. Most MC and UMC people do their own laundry, clean up after their kids every day (even if they outsource a monthly or biweekly deep clean), do some yard work, bring their cars to get repairs, make dinner, organize clothing, do grocery pick up. Also, this idea of quality time with kids can kind of miss the point. When your kids are young and you take them to the DMV or to buy a car or to the grocery store you can still connect with them and talk to them. I see tons of parents on their phones at the playground or at soccer games every weekend. Most of us are mentally exhausted from the week and doing our best to be present on the weekends, but the idea that somehow we’re able to extract more quality from our interactions than a SAHM is a stretch. There is a trade off.

I wrote this before but I still had to clean up every evening. Unless you have someone who works for you until 9, you still need to do the dishes after dinner. Kids still spill and drop food.

I feel like I clean all the time. Even when the cleaners leave, on the same day a few hours later, the house looks messy again. This is what happens with 3 kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your infant takes a 2-hr am nap and a 2-hr pm nap, and sleeps like 11-12 hours a night, then your infant is only awake 9 hours a day. All these folks saying, well my nanny only spent 3-4 waking hours with my kid...I mean, I get that "3" and "4" sound like small numbers, but it is a full 30-40% of your child's waking hours. That's of course a meaningful difference in what you could be spending if you stayed home (and again, that's assuming you have a very good napper).

I'm a FT working mom, btw.

There are 168 hours in a week.
Infants are awake for 63 of those hours.
I see my kids 48 of those hours, you see your kid 63 of those hours.
I see my kids 28% of the time, you see your kids 37% of the time.
It's 23% of their waking time... 15 hours.

Thanks for pointing out how little actual time is spent "raising" your kids.... lol 37% of your time.

Well, first, like I said, I'm a FT working mom. My kids are in ES now, but when my oldest was an infant we had a nanny. I was gone from 8 to 4. This DD actually was a "unicorn" napper who took an am nap from 9-11 and a pm nap from 1:30 to 3:30. So I missed out on 3.5 waking hours of time with my DD M-F. A lot of PPs (you included) think that is a small amount, but I don't think it is percentage wise. It was like a full third to almost 40% of her 9 waking hours each weekday! No one is raising their kids during their sleeping hours -- those 9 hours are all we have to work with and all that matter for this dicussion. I missed out on a bit more than a third to 40% of them each day. It's a lot to me. (With my second I had a WFH job which meant my younger DD was with a nanny or later daycare more like 9 to 3:30, and I felt much better about that percentage of time away.) But I guess it's all personal...

I also had a similar schedule. A baby doesn’t sleep that much forever. Sure, maybe the first year. I can’t remember. I’m sure you spent plenty of time with your kid as did I. Theee people trying to calculate how much they spend with their kids are annoying.

I was a working mom and a SAHM. I spent more time with my kids when I was a SAHM. The end.

NP. The point you're missing is "time" doesn't mean just hours of proximity. The point people are trying to make is quality time, not simply the passage of time, is what matters. Of course a SAHM spends more hours with her kids. She's home with them all day. But when you take out sleeping hours and hours spent doing other things like errands/laundry, etc., the hours of quality time spent are fewer than the hours of just time spent. If a WOHM outsources everything like cleaning/laundry and therefore spends all her non-working awake hours 1:1 with her kids, then that increases the number of hours of quality time she is able to spend. So the people saying WOHMs spend more time with their kids than SAHMs do are nuts and the people saying SAHMs spend all their waking hours 1:1 with their kids are nuts. The truth lies closer to the middle so just acknowledge that and stop arguing about these insane schedules and children who either sleep all day or never napped more than 7 minutes at a time.

Most WOHM can’t and don’t outsource everything. Most MC and UMC people do their own laundry, clean up after their kids every day (even if they outsource a monthly or biweekly deep clean), do some yard work, bring their cars to get repairs, make dinner, organize clothing, do grocery pick up. Also, this idea of quality time with kids can kind of miss the point. When your kids are young and you take them to the DMV or to buy a car or to the grocery store you can still connect with them and talk to them. I see tons of parents on their phones at the playground or at soccer games every weekend. Most of us are mentally exhausted from the week and doing our best to be present on the weekends, but the idea that somehow we’re able to extract more quality from our interactions than a SAHM is a stretch. There is a trade off.

Anonymous wrote:I work and I'm secure in my choices and not easily offended. However, no SAHM has ever said that to me, and I wonder what OP said to the SAHM to get that kind of response?

I never heard anything like this when I was a working mom. There were times when I felt guilty for not having as much time with my kids but SAHMs didn’t say these rude comments to me.

I’m a SAHM now and I do get some rude comments by working moms. Some are back handed compliments like how it must be nice to have a rich husband so I can shop and travel as much as I want or how they could never stay at home all day or they couldn’t wait to go back to work because their brain wasn’t being used. I don’t really get bothered and move on. I don’t jab back.