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Anonymous wrote:We don’t know what Tom knows right now.

The Shiv scenes are the only ones I care about right now.

The whole thing with Kendall and Roman and living plus or whatever made no sense and was dumb. Sorry. Dumb dumb. Not believable, and dumb.

It's... an old folks home? But with film directors stopping by to screen movies? And also maybe we'll figure out how to help you live an extra 50 years I don't know how don't ask but we're looking into it?

I was annoyed that it played well in the room and looked like a win for Kendall after his presentation was over. I mean, I guess it's more interesting if Kendall and Roman don't instantly fall flat on their faces and lose to Lukas/Shiv/Geri/Karl/everyone rooting against them, but it still strains credulity. I think IRL a presentation like that would get eviscerated on Twitter and wind up knocking the company's stock price down. But what do I know.

And yet investors gave Elizabeth Holmes billions for Theranos. Never underestimate how far you can get with a bit of confidence and the ability to lie fluently. Of course, it *usually* catches up with you eventually.

Sure but at least the idea behind Theranos sounded like a really good one. They didn't have the tech to back it up and just lied about it for years, but if it was actually possible to run a myriad of blood tests from a single drop of blood, on a machine that you could keep on your kitchen counter, that would actually solve a bunch of problems for a bunch of people. It's terrible what Theranos did but I actually understand why a lot of people bought into it, because the underlying concept is something really great.

Whereas Living+, on it's face, sounds dumb. Or at least very original. It's a fancy old folks home? A cruise on dry land? Who is asking for these things. Wealthy old people use their money to stay out of these closed communities that warehouse the elderly. No one wants a cruise experience without a boat. There is zero demand for this.

Sure, Kendall threw in the part about "what if we could extend life?" but it was transparently imaginary. Like he literally walked it back as he said and landed on "wouldn't that be amazing?" If that's how Elizabeth Holmes had first pitched Theranos, I think people would have been like "oh."

I live in Florida and I promise there are plenty of old people who are excited to live in a cruise ship on land.

Walt Disney himself proposed this in the 50s. Disney has created neighborhoods like this.

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Anonymous wrote:I’m terribly naive but I hope the ending brings the siblings together, in the absence of their father who always tore them apart. I hope the ending includes them parting ways with both Logan and waystar, but being brought closer together as family. I have enjoyed seeing them get closer this season.

And I hope Shiv can get a fresh start with a family of her own.

Where would that possibly come from? Their parents never modeled caring behavior. It would be a lie if the kids suddenly started that.

DP. I don't think that's true at all. Look at Drew Barrymore, who had an incredibly dysfunctional and inappropriate childhood. She is the very model of stability and nurturing motherhood. I think that is often true with people like that who grow up and yearn for the family life they never had. Doesn't always happen, but it certainly does sometimes.

That said, I seriously doubt this will be the way Succession ends up! Dysfunctional all the way, baby.

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Anonymous wrote:We don’t know what Tom knows right now.

The Shiv scenes are the only ones I care about right now.

The whole thing with Kendall and Roman and living plus or whatever made no sense and was dumb. Sorry. Dumb dumb. Not believable, and dumb.

It's... an old folks home? But with film directors stopping by to screen movies? And also maybe we'll figure out how to help you live an extra 50 years I don't know how don't ask but we're looking into it?

I was annoyed that it played well in the room and looked like a win for Kendall after his presentation was over. I mean, I guess it's more interesting if Kendall and Roman don't instantly fall flat on their faces and lose to Lukas/Shiv/Geri/Karl/everyone rooting against them, but it still strains credulity. I think IRL a presentation like that would get eviscerated on Twitter and wind up knocking the company's stock price down. But what do I know.

And yet investors gave Elizabeth Holmes billions for Theranos. Never underestimate how far you can get with a bit of confidence and the ability to lie fluently. Of course, it *usually* catches up with you eventually.

Sure but at least the idea behind Theranos sounded like a really good one. They didn't have the tech to back it up and just lied about it for years, but if it was actually possible to run a myriad of blood tests from a single drop of blood, on a machine that you could keep on your kitchen counter, that would actually solve a bunch of problems for a bunch of people. It's terrible what Theranos did but I actually understand why a lot of people bought into it, because the underlying concept is something really great.

Whereas Living+, on it's face, sounds dumb. Or at least very original. It's a fancy old folks home? A cruise on dry land? Who is asking for these things. Wealthy old people use their money to stay out of these closed communities that warehouse the elderly. No one wants a cruise experience without a boat. There is zero demand for this.

Sure, Kendall threw in the part about "what if we could extend life?" but it was transparently imaginary. Like he literally walked it back as he said and landed on "wouldn't that be amazing?" If that's how Elizabeth Holmes had first pitched Theranos, I think people would have been like "oh."

I live in Florida and I promise there are plenty of old people who are excited to live in a cruise ship on land.

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Anonymous wrote:Does anybody else think think the way Kendall monkeyed with the financing projections and his dad’s video (double the revenue!) will come back to bite him? A lot of people know the numbers were funny and that he messed with the video. And some of those same people are motivated to do him in.

I think that's quite possible. I also think one of the old guard will be shut out or will leave - probably Gerri, but maybe Frank because Frank seems pretty decent.

Karl threatened to go public about the numbers if Kendall fires him. So Karl won't be fired. Roman already fired Gerri and Kendall apparently doesn't care, so it will be interesting to see if Gerri has a way back in. I'm guessing Frank is next, too. Although all of them know the numbers are rotten so maybe they all have leverage.

It's funny though how Roman has technically fired Gerri twice and yet she is still there, and neither time was the board informed of the firing. So it will be interesting to see if the board learns about this one eventually and if a replacement is appointed and what the blowback is -- Gerri no doubt has allies (and enemies) on the board. I don't think an interim CEO firing the company's General Counsel with no warning in the middle of buyout negotiations will go unnoticed.

I think firing Gerri is significantly trickier than firing the studio head, which Roman also screwed up and will almost definitely result in blowback as well.

Another thing to remember is that pretty much everyone involved with Waystar wants this deal to go through because they stand to make a f**kton of money off of it. The offer that Lukas has communicated is a massive valuation and everyone involved has giant dollar signs in their eyes. Except Kendall and Roman. So the idea that they are going to just go rogue and tank the deal and all the people who will lose (on paper) millions of dollars as a result will just accept it? Nope. This is how shareholders lawsuits and SEC investigations are born. And Roman and Kendall haven't even been particularly careful -- Jess and Greg both know what they are doing. Do you really think Greg wouldn't fold under tough questioning in a deposition?

I don't see any way Roman and Kendall get away with their current plan. They will likely get away, generally, with being rich idiots with very few consequences. But I don't see any way they successfully tank the deal, hold onto their CEO roles, and get to run Waystar the way they apparently would like to (note: they have no concrete vision for the company, just a vague attraction to the idea of playacting as Logan). That will not happen. If it does, I'll eat my shoe.

I’m not sure whether they’ll be able to tank the deal or not, but one thing they mentioned in this ep is that the Mattson deal gets shareholders (or maybe just board members? Not sure?) half cash and half stock. So everyone has a vested interest in Mattson not being a total f***up who trashes any stock value going forward. So the baby steps about Mattson being irrational are significant (and if Shiv ever cares to share her blood story that would be even more significant) towards the goal of trashing the deal.

Question - Kendall indicated at one point that they would be able to still buy Pierce without selling to Mattson - how is that possible? I thought they needed the Mattson $ to go out on their own and buy Pierce.

And I agree with many of you here that Greg has been sidelined/underused lately but his line to Tom about how his presentation isn’t great but it won’t matter because no one would be paying attention? Perfect.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anybody else think think the way Kendall monkeyed with the financing projections and his dad’s video (double the revenue!) will come back to bite him? A lot of people know the numbers were funny and that he messed with the video. And some of those same people are motivated to do him in.

I think that's quite possible. I also think one of the old guard will be shut out or will leave - probably Gerri, but maybe Frank because Frank seems pretty decent.

Karl threatened to go public about the numbers if Kendall fires him. So Karl won't be fired. Roman already fired Gerri and Kendall apparently doesn't care, so it will be interesting to see if Gerri has a way back in. I'm guessing Frank is next, too. Although all of them know the numbers are rotten so maybe they all have leverage.

It's funny though how Roman has technically fired Gerri twice and yet she is still there, and neither time was the board informed of the firing. So it will be interesting to see if the board learns about this one eventually and if a replacement is appointed and what the blowback is -- Gerri no doubt has allies (and enemies) on the board. I don't think an interim CEO firing the company's General Counsel with no warning in the middle of buyout negotiations will go unnoticed.

I think firing Gerri is significantly trickier than firing the studio head, which Roman also screwed up and will almost definitely result in blowback as well.

Another thing to remember is that pretty much everyone involved with Waystar wants this deal to go through because they stand to make a f**kton of money off of it. The offer that Lukas has communicated is a massive valuation and everyone involved has giant dollar signs in their eyes. Except Kendall and Roman. So the idea that they are going to just go rogue and tank the deal and all the people who will lose (on paper) millions of dollars as a result will just accept it? Nope. This is how shareholders lawsuits and SEC investigations are born. And Roman and Kendall haven't even been particularly careful -- Jess and Greg both know what they are doing. Do you really think Greg wouldn't fold under tough questioning in a deposition?

I don't see any way Roman and Kendall get away with their current plan. They will likely get away, generally, with being rich idiots with very few consequences. But I don't see any way they successfully tank the deal, hold onto their CEO roles, and get to run Waystar the way they apparently would like to (note: they have no concrete vision for the company, just a vague attraction to the idea of playacting as Logan). That will not happen. If it does, I'll eat my shoe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m terribly naive but I hope the ending brings the siblings together, in the absence of their father who always tore them apart. I hope the ending includes them parting ways with both Logan and waystar, but being brought closer together as family. I have enjoyed seeing them get closer this season.

And I hope Shiv can get a fresh start with a family of her own.

Where would that possibly come from? Their parents never modeled caring behavior. It would be a lie if the kids suddenly started that.

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Anonymous wrote:I think Shiv is closer to 16 weeks, so possibly not showing with a first-time pregnancy.

The convo with her doctor going over the screening results was just a few days ago (each episode is one day this season), and the dr. was talking about seeing her next at the 20 week appt. You are only going to the dr every 4 weeks at that stage of pregnancy. This is my understanding of the timeline, correct me if I am off base.

Each episode is only supposed to be 1 day? I've been very confused by how much time has supposedly gone by but this seems a little unrealistic. They were in NY in episode 3 when Logan died and episode 4 was the next day at Logan's apartment; then episode 5 is the next day in Norway; episode 6 a day later in LA?

Private jets, helicopters, billionaires. It's not that unrealistic. These people are not booking commercial flights, wasting time in traffic, standing in lines, etc.

Though they obviously spent at least 2 days in Norway (there's an overnight).

Speaking of private jets, I found that scene with Shiv and Lukas on the plane pretty hilarious in terms of billionaire ahole behavior. Him calling from the next jet over, then walking over BAREFOOT to visit, then making some comment about the interior of her jet and her rolling her eyes and calling him out on the childishness of insulin someone's private jet interior. I have no idea if that's what it's actually like to live that life but it was funny to contemplate in that scene.

Not a billionaire, but having worked with people like this and done my time on corporate jets — that scene rang *so* true. When you get to that level, it’s really the only thing that distinguishes the incredibly rich from the ridiculously rich from the obscenely rich. But the biggest flex of all is not caring. It was a “tell” — Matsson is new to it and still impressed by the trappings of wealth.

Upthread someone questioned Kendall’s comment about the size of his room in a Norway. That rang true to me, as well, but it had nothing to do with Kendall being spoiled. Kendall was sensitive to the status games Matsson was playing. That’s why he asked Roman if his room was small as well. He doesn’t care about it if everyone has a small room, but he wants to know if he’s being dissed.

That's interesting, reminds me of a New Yorker article I read last year about super yachts, all these billionaires playing games to get the biggest boat. It makes you realize what a trap all this is, none of these people will ever be truly satisfied.

Michael Lewis's book The New New Thing talks about this too. It's a really interesting profile of all these tech billionaires and what drives them. It is very hard to read about stuff like this and maintain a large amount of respect for these guys. Most of them are petty, permanently unhappy people who have destroyed their families and have no real friends. Many of them have likely personality disorders. There may have once been a time when the richest people in the world were living the best lives (maybe, I'm skeptical) but it's definitely not now. They might be living comfortable lives but many/most of them are miserable human beings.

It's impossible to have that much money and not be surrounded by people who either want your money or only like you because you have that much money.

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Anonymous wrote:I liked the episode, especially the Shiv/Tom scenes, and how Kendall and Roman are in way over their heads.

But did anybody else find the finance part really shallow? It's like they were spitballing big finance words with no connected train of logic. In one sense that probably just shows how badly Kendall and Roman are in over their heads. But they weren't the only ones tossing around "big finance words" and part of me thinks it was lazy or ignorant writing.

YES. The ridiculous corporate jargon was appallingly bad - not sure if it was meant to be or not. Jeremy Strong is an excellent actor. Kendall is just so pathetically out of his depth (and Roman too). However, they did manage to sell that Living+ concept successfully, so maybe they're doing something right?

I'm finding Shiv to be pretty repugnant in her treatment of Tom. The way she speaks to him - ugh. She seems to thrive on diminishing him any way she can.

We model our parents relationships even if we know they are wrong. It takes so much therapy to break out of it. What our parents do matters more than anything else.

+1 and all the kids are mimicking their dad a lot since his death. Roman's treatment of women and abuse of power, Kendall's dicy ethics regarding trashing his dad in the press and lying to investors, and Shiv's weird dynamic with Tom. I think the sudden death of Logan is triggering a bunch of regressive behaviors from all of them.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Shiv is closer to 16 weeks, so possibly not showing with a first-time pregnancy.

The convo with her doctor going over the screening results was just a few days ago (each episode is one day this season), and the dr. was talking about seeing her next at the 20 week appt. You are only going to the dr every 4 weeks at that stage of pregnancy. This is my understanding of the timeline, correct me if I am off base.

Each episode is only supposed to be 1 day? I've been very confused by how much time has supposedly gone by but this seems a little unrealistic. They were in NY in episode 3 when Logan died and episode 4 was the next day at Logan's apartment; then episode 5 is the next day in Norway; episode 6 a day later in LA?

Private jets, helicopters, billionaires. It's not that unrealistic. These people are not booking commercial flights, wasting time in traffic, standing in lines, etc.

Though they obviously spent at least 2 days in Norway (there's an overnight).

Speaking of private jets, I found that scene with Shiv and Lukas on the plane pretty hilarious in terms of billionaire ahole behavior. Him calling from the next jet over, then walking over BAREFOOT to visit, then making some comment about the interior of her jet and her rolling her eyes and calling him out on the childishness of insulin someone's private jet interior. I have no idea if that's what it's actually like to live that life but it was funny to contemplate in that scene.

Not a billionaire, but having worked with people like this and done my time on corporate jets — that scene rang *so* true. When you get to that level, it’s really the only thing that distinguishes the incredibly rich from the ridiculously rich from the obscenely rich. But the biggest flex of all is not caring. It was a “tell” — Matsson is new to it and still impressed by the trappings of wealth.

Upthread someone questioned Kendall’s comment about the size of his room in a Norway. That rang true to me, as well, but it had nothing to do with Kendall being spoiled. Kendall was sensitive to the status games Matsson was playing. That’s why he asked Roman if his room was small as well. He doesn’t care about it if everyone has a small room, but he wants to know if he’s being dissed.

That's interesting, reminds me of a New Yorker article I read last year about super yachts, all these billionaires playing games to get the biggest boat. It makes you realize what a trap all this is, none of these people will ever be truly satisfied.

Michael Lewis's book The New New Thing talks about this too. It's a really interesting profile of all these tech billionaires and what drives them. It is very hard to read about stuff like this and maintain a large amount of respect for these guys. Most of them are petty, permanently unhappy people who have destroyed their families and have no real friends. Many of them have likely personality disorders. There may have once been a time when the richest people in the world were living the best lives (maybe, I'm skeptical) but it's definitely not now. They might be living comfortable lives but many/most of them are miserable human beings.

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Anonymous wrote:This episode didn't do it for me. No way are Roman and Kendall truly such enormous buffoons.

I also don't get why Gerri gets so many accolades...she's just a standard frazzled corporate stand-in who hasn't really developed a character.

Shiv and Tom though: Wow. Both tremendous actors and an awesome story arc. More of them, please.

I’ve been disappointed in Geri this season. The writers haven’t given her much to work with.

I thought the scene with her and Roman last night was really good though. Also the scenes with Roman in the episode where Logan died.

I think it's building to something, too. I think something is going to go down with all the old guard at Waystar -- Geri, Karl, and I guess Frank. This episode had Geri threatening/going toe to toe with Roman, and Karl threatening Kendall. Geri is a successful General Counsel who has no doubt filed away every inappropriate text Roman has ever sent her (including last season's dick pic) and Karl is a CFO who knows where all the financial bodies are buried. If one (or both together) decided they wanted to bury the Roys, they could. I think they are both more likely to simply use this information to get the payout or job they want (neither of them is going to turn whistleblower -- they aren't in it for the ethical superiority), but that doesn't mean they can't twist the screws into the Roy kids if they really want to.

I don't know if that is true of Geri. She seemed like Kendall in that the thought of her taking control seemed to fire a spark in her. She's the most competent out of all the lot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This episode didn't do it for me. No way are Roman and Kendall truly such enormous buffoons.

I also don't get why Gerri gets so many accolades...she's just a standard frazzled corporate stand-in who hasn't really developed a character.

Shiv and Tom though: Wow. Both tremendous actors and an awesome story arc. More of them, please.

I’ve been disappointed in Geri this season. The writers haven’t given her much to work with.

I thought the scene with her and Roman last night was really good though. Also the scenes with Roman in the episode where Logan died.

I think it's building to something, too. I think something is going to go down with all the old guard at Waystar -- Geri, Karl, and I guess Frank. This episode had Geri threatening/going toe to toe with Roman, and Karl threatening Kendall. Geri is a successful General Counsel who has no doubt filed away every inappropriate text Roman has ever sent her (including last season's dick pic) and Karl is a CFO who knows where all the financial bodies are buried. If one (or both together) decided they wanted to bury the Roys, they could. I think they are both more likely to simply use this information to get the payout or job they want (neither of them is going to turn whistleblower -- they aren't in it for the ethical superiority), but that doesn't mean they can't twist the screws into the Roy kids if they really want to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the episode, especially the Shiv/Tom scenes, and how Kendall and Roman are in way over their heads.

But did anybody else find the finance part really shallow? It's like they were spitballing big finance words with no connected train of logic. In one sense that probably just shows how badly Kendall and Roman are in over their heads. But they weren't the only ones tossing around "big finance words" and part of me thinks it was lazy or ignorant writing.

YES. The ridiculous corporate jargon was appallingly bad - not sure if it was meant to be or not. Jeremy Strong is an excellent actor. Kendall is just so pathetically out of his depth (and Roman too). However, they did manage to sell that Living+ concept successfully, so maybe they're doing something right?

I'm finding Shiv to be pretty repugnant in her treatment of Tom. The way she speaks to him - ugh. She seems to thrive on diminishing him any way she can.

We model our parents relationships even if we know they are wrong. It takes so much therapy to break out of it. What our parents do matters more than anything else.

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Anonymous wrote:Gerri's doing the Larry David thing where you keep showing up after you are fired. Works.

Yup. I don't think Gerri is "fired fired." She'll tell Roman he didn't mean it, he'll shrug, and that'll be it. Or that's the point where Roman doubles down again and makes a big mistake and really fires her.

I think one of the Old Guard has to go because I think there's further fracturing/conflict that has to happen to get to the eventual climax of the story. Gerri is the most prominent character and has the most emotional tie to the viewer, so she's a prime candidate. Frank's firing could also have some emotional heft because (and I'm repeating myself) Frank seems decent. He's also Kendall's godfather. So is he's cruelly treated/humiliated that's also a good plot device.

Karl could be fired but there's not the same dramatic potential.