Anonymous wrote:she wasn't the all around olympic champion, so it's a bit misleading

?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s disturbing is they all the Russians look prepubescent in a way that the gymnasts do not, and certainly salami to does not. It looks like starvation. It feels like we are watching the hunger games, these kids have been thrown to the wolves for our entertainment.

Eh, it depends on the year. Some very young ones, some not.

from last year:
https://themedalcount.com/2021/03/12/2021-russia-a-team-hungary-for-success/

While watching the qualification round of the 2021 Russian Championships, what I found particularly noticeable was how young their women’s artistic gymnastics (WAG) program has now become. Gymnasts born in either 2004 or 2005 have dominated the qualification round. Had medals been awarded for qualification scores, this age group would have taken 10 of 15 individual medals (66%).

she wasn't the all around olympic champion, so it's a bit misleading

Anonymous wrote:What’s disturbing is they all the Russians look prepubescent in a way that the gymnasts do not, and certainly salami to does not. It looks like starvation. It feels like we are watching the hunger games, these kids have been thrown to the wolves for our entertainment.

Eh, it depends on the year. Some very young ones, some not.

Anonymous wrote:

Of course there is tremendous demand for training programs like Eteri, because people see the benefit in being a top ranked skater and winning Olympic medals. That doesn't mean Eteris training system, and the system in general, is not abusive -- it creates the opportunity for abuse because families that don't comply with Eteri's methods can be booted for the next willing skater any time. So while children enter these programs willingly, that does not mean they are not abused and exploited once in them. And while Valieva could leave tomorrow and be replaced, look at what it would cost her -- years of her life and energy, on mastery of a sport she may never be able to compete in at a high level again.

You can look at it this way or you can take a position that Eteri is one of the coaches (not THE coach) who offers a particular method of training, and those who don't like it are free to leave, as some did. I mean no one has to train with her, there are other coaches out there. Surprisingly, a few stars who left Tutberidze's camp, have returned because grass was not greener.

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Anonymous wrote:Maybe they should invest a little more in the tailoring than in performance enhancing drugs. Some of the Russian skating outfits were ill-fitting. Anna's loose crossovers on the back of hers were driving me crazy. Trusova had some strange gaps in her outfit that just seemed off. I thought the Lion King outfit was gorgeous as was the outfit for the bronze medalist.

Well tbh Russia has never exceled in costuming. It is always on the side of garish even for figure skating. That's why G&G black and white monastic outfits were so striking in 1994.

THere's also Nathan Chen's approach, which is, "I'm so good I can win this in athleisure."

LOL. So true. That loose t-shirt in the final still irritates me.

I think Nathan Chen's attire won him some non-typical fans. I couldn't believe that several of our neighbors were talking about Chen's performance in a positive way. These are men who wouldn't usually be watching figure skating, and one of the things they said they especially liked was his outfit.

I can see that! The only skater my DH wanted to watch this entire Olympics and cared about cheering for was Nathan.

Half of the male skaters and ice dancers looked straight out of Star Trek this year and I LOVED it.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is Trusova’s complaint?

That five landed quads were not enough to win a gold medal.

Sorry I’m late to this part of the discussion but what’s the consensus on her point — comparing the skates of the gold and silver winners?

The score is half technical and half artistry. There was ZERO artistry in her performance, I said it to my husband before Johnny Weir said it on TV, and I know absolutely NOTHING about skating.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they should invest a little more in the tailoring than in performance enhancing drugs. Some of the Russian skating outfits were ill-fitting. Anna's loose crossovers on the back of hers were driving me crazy. Trusova had some strange gaps in her outfit that just seemed off. I thought the Lion King outfit was gorgeous as was the outfit for the bronze medalist.

Well tbh Russia has never exceled in costuming. It is always on the side of garish even for figure skating. That's why G&G black and white monastic outfits were so striking in 1994.

THere's also Nathan Chen's approach, which is, "I'm so good I can win this in athleisure."

LOL. So true. That loose t-shirt in the final still irritates me.

I think Nathan Chen's attire won him some non-typical fans. I couldn't believe that several of our neighbors were talking about Chen's performance in a positive way. These are men who wouldn't usually be watching figure skating, and one of the things they said they especially liked was his outfit.

His outfits look very Star Trekkie to me. There again, it's a bit daft to be skating around doing athletic feats with feathers and sequins. Half-pipe snowboarders are judged but don't have to wear makeup and sequins. I marvel that the male skaters get to wear black pants and comfortable tops, while the young women have revealing dresses and flowing fabric and little in the way of coverage.

What’s disturbing is they all the Russians look prepubescent in a way that the gymnasts do not, and certainly salami to does not. It looks like starvation. It feels like we are watching the hunger games, these kids have been thrown to the wolves for our entertainment.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is Trusova’s complaint?

That five landed quads were not enough to win a gold medal.

She reminds me a lot of Aliya Mustafina the gymnast. Moody, emotional. PITA for all.

Or Khorkina

I'm not sure I can agree that anyone can hold a candle to Khorkina.

I'm still salty about that vault in 2000. She was robbed.

Agreed. The whole of the 2000 gymnastics event is still such a disaster. Soup to nuts.

Anonymous wrote:For those wondering, here's an article about Khorkina's political career and an interview with her.

https://eng.gymnovosti.com/khorkina-its-a-pity-that-ussr-broke-down/

I love how she works some version of this into every conversation or interview:

"I became an Olympic champion at 17 years old and the whole world learned about Svetlana Khorkina, the Russian athlete who, for a long time, held the leading position in the international artistic gymnastics."

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eileen Gu is so annoying!!!

She is the worst. I find it really odd that she shared her SAT score. She is such a braggart and was painful to listen to go about omg, look at me, look at me. She sounds less articulate than most of the athletes and that she is going to Stanford. Well, Elizabeth Holmes also went to Stanford. So two assholes.

She's won two golds and a silver, is obviously very smart, already has secured millions in endorsements and modeling contracts, is about to start raking in even more, and has a very bright future in front of her. I think she's entitled to brag a bit.

She's still annoying!!!

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Anonymous wrote:
And immediately preceding this era of Russian teen phenoms was the era of Yuna Kim/Mao Asada/Carolina Kostner. All of who had success at a young age but relatively long careers.

Yu Na Kim and Carolina Kostner benefited tremendously from having no domestic competition in that they could always be assured of a berth to worlds or Olympics. Mao Asada had to fight the wave of excellent Japanese lady skaters and she did not always come out on top. Notably, Asada was coached for a time by Tatiana Tarasova, a famed Russian coach who is tough but described as maternal by her skaters.

Oh yeah, "Bells of Moscow." I so wish she had picked some other music. I don't think that music showcased Mao effectively.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they should invest a little more in the tailoring than in performance enhancing drugs. Some of the Russian skating outfits were ill-fitting. Anna's loose crossovers on the back of hers were driving me crazy. Trusova had some strange gaps in her outfit that just seemed off. I thought the Lion King outfit was gorgeous as was the outfit for the bronze medalist.

Well tbh Russia has never exceled in costuming. It is always on the side of garish even for figure skating. That's why G&G black and white monastic outfits were so striking in 1994.

THere's also Nathan Chen's approach, which is, "I'm so good I can win this in athleisure."

LOL. So true. That loose t-shirt in the final still irritates me.

I think Nathan Chen's attire won him some non-typical fans. I couldn't believe that several of our neighbors were talking about Chen's performance in a positive way. These are men who wouldn't usually be watching figure skating, and one of the things they said they especially liked was his outfit.

I can see that! The only skater my DH wanted to watch this entire Olympics and cared about cheering for was Nathan.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I also think Russia now is not as different from the Soviet era as you'd like to hope. The level of corruption and cronyism is still astronomically high, so winning a high profile Olympic medal still has enormous benefit to a skater and her family, who may be set up within that system. Or maybe not. The system is abusive and discards people who are not deemed useful. But the pressure to "be useful" is almost as intense now as it was in the 80s, and a talented young child and her family could be persuaded to participate in an abusive training program to win gold "for love of country" more easily than they might be in the US. Also, unlike in the US, there is still far more state sponsorship of young athletes in Russia, with many scholarships and public sponsorships available to those who have a demonstrated ability. It is also true for young dancers through the Bolshoi and other artistic programs. Russia may no longer be a communist country, but they have not dropped many of their ideals about making Russian arts and culture dominant. That still extends to athletes, as evidenced by the Sochi Olympics, the doping scandal, and now this debacle.

Russia has changed very little in the last 30 years.

You've got it quite wrong. Olympic medalists now have access to opportunities that were simply not there in the USSR times - endorsement contracts and TV shows come to mind. In my view, it is quite fair that an athlete who invested a tremendous amount of energy and time into getting a medal gets a reward from the state. You are also wrong that children are pressured to enter these programs. Skating is tremendously popular and whatever you think of Eteri and her training methods, the line to her facility is around the block and she does not force anyone to stay as she has enough skaters to keep her busy. If Kamila wanted to leave skating tomorrow, no one would keep her in. Children stay in skating because they are driven from within; and it also helps when they look at champions like Zagitova, Pluschenko, Slutskaya or Yagudin, and see prosperity and popularity at the end of the line.

State sponsorship of athletes and artists is a good thing. Accessibility of high arts and culture is a good thing. These things cannot pay for themselves, and it is not fair that they should only be available to the rich, or to families with a stay at home parent.

You misread my statement. We are in agreement but with slightly different perspectives.

Of course there is tremendous demand for training programs like Eteri, because people see the benefit in being a top ranked skater and winning Olympic medals. That doesn't mean Eteris training system, and the system in general, is not abusive -- it creates the opportunity for abuse because families that don't comply with Eteri's methods can be booted for the next willing skater any time. So while children enter these programs willingly, that does not mean they are not abused and exploited once in them. And while Valieva could leave tomorrow and be replaced, look at what it would cost her -- years of her life and energy, on mastery of a sport she may never be able to compete in at a high level again.

I agree state sponsorship of arts and culture is a good thing and wish the US did more of it, I was just explaining to the PP how the economics are very different in Russia. In the US, Olympic-level skating really is only available to wealthy families -- it is not only self-funded by families with very few scholarships available, but the competition circuit itself is a for-profit business and will milk ambitious children and their parents for every possible dime. Given this, it might be hard for Americans to understand why a Russian family would "put up with" a coach like Eteri, becaue they may be assuming that these families are paying through the nose for Eteri's services. But I have to assume most of Eteri's funding comes from the state or from private interests. She will choose the most promising skaters based purely on talent and drive and not on their family's ability to pay. And this is likely to feel like a great deal to most Russian families, who will have most of their child's training paid for by others, as well as tutors and other resources to support her training.

I was simply explaining the difference between the US and Russian approaches to a PP who was confused by the motivations of these families in a system where the economics are so different than in the US.