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Anonymous wrote:God our coops assessments in the past five years are pushing us to sell. Above 7k common charges and taxes, we have a new assessment for four years for god knows how much and we just finished a previous assessment. We have two kids at private and honestly wish we were renting.

We keep having assessments because a jerk in our building (pretentious TT parent) keeps dreaming up ways to spend my money on special projects to keep him busy. Some of them are nice amenities that theoretically add value, but some are projects to keep him entertained. He controls enough votes to stay on the board and the rest of the board rolls over for him. Meanwhile he abuses the staff. Miserable.

I wouldn’t own an apartment unless the money didn’t mean much to me. The equity is going to be wiped out the way the land lease buildings have been going. For me it is townhouse or rent.

Why would the equity be wiped out if you are not in a land lease building? Curious how you reached that conclusion.

Many building are old and have deferred repairs. The up-keeping will continue to get more expensive. Between the maintenance, assessments, and taxes you are owning a liability more than an asset. The value of wanting to buy into a co-op will continue to decrease.

Most common I see is people buy into new condo and taking advantage of the tax abatement and new facilities. Try to sell before it expires and the expenses goes up in 10 years.

And you think rentals aren’t passing along the repair cost to you?

Most families I know who rent face huge massive rent increases annually.

Rent is based on market factors and what someone willing to pay. Many are moving to the outer borough. The old buildings will be competing with new buildings that have tax abatement and can offer one free month of rent.

There has also been a decline in students enrolled in public school, so it been trending for families to leave the city.

lots of BS in this post.

first of all, a free month and tax abatement are different things - one is rental one is ownership.

Rents have gone up the last few years pretty aggressively. that being said, our rent has been pretty reasonable - we started at 7,500 about 13 years ago and is now 9,500. it barely moved from 2013 to 2022. from 2023-2026 it has gone up 20%.

the 300k down payment we saved has moved up to over 1.0MM (post tax) due to equity and bond market returns. The maintenance costs have increased in the buildings we looked at buying as well. We are much better off having rented.

now, we did put $200k down on a house in the hamptons - that down payment has ballooned in value to over $1MM (and that's incorporating capital gains in the event we sold). we have had Interest only loans for the majority of the 18 years we have owned it.

You have also been fortunate to cherry pick one of the best periods in market history.

More importantly, home ownership is only partially an economic decision. Any slightly intelligent financial advisor will split out your home from all other analysis. Because it is a place you live. Where you raise your family. Where you entertain friends. Where you build a community. It is obviously often a big portion of your net worth so that can't be ignored. But those whoh view this as solely transactional are not people I want in my life.

And your Hamptons humblebrag says you are likely in that category. But yeah, you're rich.

what hamptons humblebrag. we are north of the highway. we paid $1mm, it's worth a lot more now given RE appreciation and some renovations. It's a very modest house but in a good location. we won't sell - per your excellent points on RE. some years we rent it out for a few weeks to a month to help pay the carrying costs.

we are solidly lower end of affluent. slightly more than 10mm investments, 2mm in RE. we don't feel rich. we still look for sales - but do travel well and do prioritize education so pay for private school.

I haircut the market returns (i think if using equity returns the value would be over 1.4mm post tax). i agree with your point. Not cherry picking, just using our example. In fact we have been fortunate to earn a decent amount above the market returns but that might be luck/randomness.

are you saying that we can't raise a family, entertain, build a community in a rental building? we have lived same building for 13 years. we have many close friends in the building. your assumption on not creating roots in a rental is not necessarily true.

You are affluent. Trust me. You can stop working tomorrow and life pretty nicely based on the timeline you presented - put in a few more years and you are definitely all set (assuming you are 45+). I know you are trying to be modest and respect that but it just makes others feel bad about themselves.

i did say lower end affluent. and yes, probably working for another 5 years and we can retire since college is paid for and we will be in okay shape. we will have some inheritance as well which unfortunately will most likely come in 5 years or less.

the way we think about it is that if we have $15mm we can draw 4% a year and have $50k a month in retirement which is a very nice retirement. that's what we are targetting.

And by continuing to share those details you are continuing to humblebrag. Congrats. You're rich. Yeah for you. Go to your club and act important rather than gracing us lowly message board posters with the blessing of your precious time.

Sorry that wasn't my intent but I can see how you interpret the comments.

We don't belong to any club and we don't feel wealthy most of the time. But I guess zooming out - we are definitely fortunate and doing very well overall.

thank you for providing perspective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God our coops assessments in the past five years are pushing us to sell. Above 7k common charges and taxes, we have a new assessment for four years for god knows how much and we just finished a previous assessment. We have two kids at private and honestly wish we were renting.

We keep having assessments because a jerk in our building (pretentious TT parent) keeps dreaming up ways to spend my money on special projects to keep him busy. Some of them are nice amenities that theoretically add value, but some are projects to keep him entertained. He controls enough votes to stay on the board and the rest of the board rolls over for him. Meanwhile he abuses the staff. Miserable.

I wouldn’t own an apartment unless the money didn’t mean much to me. The equity is going to be wiped out the way the land lease buildings have been going. For me it is townhouse or rent.

Why would the equity be wiped out if you are not in a land lease building? Curious how you reached that conclusion.

Many building are old and have deferred repairs. The up-keeping will continue to get more expensive. Between the maintenance, assessments, and taxes you are owning a liability more than an asset. The value of wanting to buy into a co-op will continue to decrease.

Most common I see is people buy into new condo and taking advantage of the tax abatement and new facilities. Try to sell before it expires and the expenses goes up in 10 years.

And you think rentals aren’t passing along the repair cost to you?

Most families I know who rent face huge massive rent increases annually.

Rent is based on market factors and what someone willing to pay. Many are moving to the outer borough. The old buildings will be competing with new buildings that have tax abatement and can offer one free month of rent.

There has also been a decline in students enrolled in public school, so it been trending for families to leave the city.

lots of BS in this post.

first of all, a free month and tax abatement are different things - one is rental one is ownership.

Rents have gone up the last few years pretty aggressively. that being said, our rent has been pretty reasonable - we started at 7,500 about 13 years ago and is now 9,500. it barely moved from 2013 to 2022. from 2023-2026 it has gone up 20%.

the 300k down payment we saved has moved up to over 1.0MM (post tax) due to equity and bond market returns. The maintenance costs have increased in the buildings we looked at buying as well. We are much better off having rented.

now, we did put $200k down on a house in the hamptons - that down payment has ballooned in value to over $1MM (and that's incorporating capital gains in the event we sold). we have had Interest only loans for the majority of the 18 years we have owned it.

You have also been fortunate to cherry pick one of the best periods in market history.

More importantly, home ownership is only partially an economic decision. Any slightly intelligent financial advisor will split out your home from all other analysis. Because it is a place you live. Where you raise your family. Where you entertain friends. Where you build a community. It is obviously often a big portion of your net worth so that can't be ignored. But those whoh view this as solely transactional are not people I want in my life.

And your Hamptons humblebrag says you are likely in that category. But yeah, you're rich.

what hamptons humblebrag. we are north of the highway. we paid $1mm, it's worth a lot more now given RE appreciation and some renovations. It's a very modest house but in a good location. we won't sell - per your excellent points on RE. some years we rent it out for a few weeks to a month to help pay the carrying costs.

we are solidly lower end of affluent. slightly more than 10mm investments, 2mm in RE. we don't feel rich. we still look for sales - but do travel well and do prioritize education so pay for private school.

I haircut the market returns (i think if using equity returns the value would be over 1.4mm post tax). i agree with your point. Not cherry picking, just using our example. In fact we have been fortunate to earn a decent amount above the market returns but that might be luck/randomness.

are you saying that we can't raise a family, entertain, build a community in a rental building? we have lived same building for 13 years. we have many close friends in the building. your assumption on not creating roots in a rental is not necessarily true.

You are affluent. Trust me. You can stop working tomorrow and life pretty nicely based on the timeline you presented - put in a few more years and you are definitely all set (assuming you are 45+). I know you are trying to be modest and respect that but it just makes others feel bad about themselves.

i did say lower end affluent. and yes, probably working for another 5 years and we can retire since college is paid for and we will be in okay shape. we will have some inheritance as well which unfortunately will most likely come in 5 years or less.

the way we think about it is that if we have $15mm we can draw 4% a year and have $50k a month in retirement which is a very nice retirement. that's what we are targetting.

And by continuing to share those details you are continuing to humblebrag. Congrats. You're rich. Yeah for you. Go to your club and act important rather than gracing us lowly message board posters with the blessing of your precious time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God our coops assessments in the past five years are pushing us to sell. Above 7k common charges and taxes, we have a new assessment for four years for god knows how much and we just finished a previous assessment. We have two kids at private and honestly wish we were renting.

We keep having assessments because a jerk in our building (pretentious TT parent) keeps dreaming up ways to spend my money on special projects to keep him busy. Some of them are nice amenities that theoretically add value, but some are projects to keep him entertained. He controls enough votes to stay on the board and the rest of the board rolls over for him. Meanwhile he abuses the staff. Miserable.

I wouldn’t own an apartment unless the money didn’t mean much to me. The equity is going to be wiped out the way the land lease buildings have been going. For me it is townhouse or rent.

Why would the equity be wiped out if you are not in a land lease building? Curious how you reached that conclusion.

The private school scene needs more parents like you all. We live in Brooklyn and send our child to a Manhattan TT. It's been eye opening to hang out with some of the moms!


Many building are old and have deferred repairs. The up-keeping will continue to get more expensive. Between the maintenance, assessments, and taxes you are owning a liability more than an asset. The value of wanting to buy into a co-op will continue to decrease.

Most common I see is people buy into new condo and taking advantage of the tax abatement and new facilities. Try to sell before it expires and the expenses goes up in 10 years.

And you think rentals aren’t passing along the repair cost to you?

Most families I know who rent face huge massive rent increases annually.

Rent is based on market factors and what someone willing to pay. Many are moving to the outer borough. The old buildings will be competing with new buildings that have tax abatement and can offer one free month of rent.

There has also been a decline in students enrolled in public school, so it been trending for families to leave the city.

lots of BS in this post.

first of all, a free month and tax abatement are different things - one is rental one is ownership.

Rents have gone up the last few years pretty aggressively. that being said, our rent has been pretty reasonable - we started at 7,500 about 13 years ago and is now 9,500. it barely moved from 2013 to 2022. from 2023-2026 it has gone up 20%.

the 300k down payment we saved has moved up to over 1.0MM (post tax) due to equity and bond market returns. The maintenance costs have increased in the buildings we looked at buying as well. We are much better off having rented.

now, we did put $200k down on a house in the hamptons - that down payment has ballooned in value to over $1MM (and that's incorporating capital gains in the event we sold). we have had Interest only loans for the majority of the 18 years we have owned it.

You have also been fortunate to cherry pick one of the best periods in market history.

More importantly, home ownership is only partially an economic decision. Any slightly intelligent financial advisor will split out your home from all other analysis. Because it is a place you live. Where you raise your family. Where you entertain friends. Where you build a community. It is obviously often a big portion of your net worth so that can't be ignored. But those whoh view this as solely transactional are not people I want in my life.

And your Hamptons humblebrag says you are likely in that category. But yeah, you're rich.

what hamptons humblebrag. we are north of the highway. we paid $1mm, it's worth a lot more now given RE appreciation and some renovations. It's a very modest house but in a good location. we won't sell - per your excellent points on RE. some years we rent it out for a few weeks to a month to help pay the carrying costs.

we are solidly lower end of affluent. slightly more than 10mm investments, 2mm in RE. we don't feel rich. we still look for sales - but do travel well and do prioritize education so pay for private school.

I haircut the market returns (i think if using equity returns the value would be over 1.4mm post tax). i agree with your point. Not cherry picking, just using our example. In fact we have been fortunate to earn a decent amount above the market returns but that might be luck/randomness.

are you saying that we can't raise a family, entertain, build a community in a rental building? we have lived same building for 13 years. we have many close friends in the building. your assumption on not creating roots in a rental is not necessarily true.

You are affluent. Trust me. You can stop working tomorrow and life pretty nicely based on the timeline you presented - put in a few more years and you are definitely all set (assuming you are 45+). I know you are trying to be modest and respect that but it just makes others feel bad about themselves.

i did say lower end affluent. and yes, probably working for another 5 years and we can retire since college is paid for and we will be in okay shape. we will have some inheritance as well which unfortunately will most likely come in 5 years or less.

the way we think about it is that if we have $15mm we can draw 4% a year and have $50k a month in retirement which is a very nice retirement. that's what we are targetting.

And by continuing to share those details you are continuing to humblebrag. Congrats. You're rich. Yeah for you. Go to your club and act important rather than gracing us lowly message board posters with the blessing of your precious time.

Sorry that wasn't my intent but I can see how you interpret the comments.

We don't belong to any club and we don't feel wealthy most of the time. But I guess zooming out - we are definitely fortunate and doing very well overall.

thank you for providing perspective.

NP - I am the person with the townhouses who enjoyed your post. It isn't every day I can have an open discussion without worrying about offending someone. I use to get offended when I saw someone wear their school merch as bragging than I realize it is more about me than others.

we would rarely discuss our NW with anyone. Nor "brag" about private school. In fact the times it's been discussed with close friends they are surprised. It's usually in the context of vacations which we do splurge on. our families don't know. we have good but not superstar jobs (no Law partners, Hedge Fund bros). we live below our means in a rental building. we drove (until a few years ago) a 10 year old car. we have invested well and most importantly didn't get hit in the GFC on our investments or in 2021 - which were really the two big negative market years from memory.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God our coops assessments in the past five years are pushing us to sell. Above 7k common charges and taxes, we have a new assessment for four years for god knows how much and we just finished a previous assessment. We have two kids at private and honestly wish we were renting.

We keep having assessments because a jerk in our building (pretentious TT parent) keeps dreaming up ways to spend my money on special projects to keep him busy. Some of them are nice amenities that theoretically add value, but some are projects to keep him entertained. He controls enough votes to stay on the board and the rest of the board rolls over for him. Meanwhile he abuses the staff. Miserable.

I wouldn’t own an apartment unless the money didn’t mean much to me. The equity is going to be wiped out the way the land lease buildings have been going. For me it is townhouse or rent.

Why would the equity be wiped out if you are not in a land lease building? Curious how you reached that conclusion.

Many building are old and have deferred repairs. The up-keeping will continue to get more expensive. Between the maintenance, assessments, and taxes you are owning a liability more than an asset. The value of wanting to buy into a co-op will continue to decrease.

Most common I see is people buy into new condo and taking advantage of the tax abatement and new facilities. Try to sell before it expires and the expenses goes up in 10 years.

And you think rentals aren’t passing along the repair cost to you?

Most families I know who rent face huge massive rent increases annually.

Rent is based on market factors and what someone willing to pay. Many are moving to the outer borough. The old buildings will be competing with new buildings that have tax abatement and can offer one free month of rent.

There has also been a decline in students enrolled in public school, so it been trending for families to leave the city.

lots of BS in this post.

first of all, a free month and tax abatement are different things - one is rental one is ownership.

Rents have gone up the last few years pretty aggressively. that being said, our rent has been pretty reasonable - we started at 7,500 about 13 years ago and is now 9,500. it barely moved from 2013 to 2022. from 2023-2026 it has gone up 20%.

the 300k down payment we saved has moved up to over 1.0MM (post tax) due to equity and bond market returns. The maintenance costs have increased in the buildings we looked at buying as well. We are much better off having rented.

now, we did put $200k down on a house in the hamptons - that down payment has ballooned in value to over $1MM (and that's incorporating capital gains in the event we sold). we have had Interest only loans for the majority of the 18 years we have owned it.

You have also been fortunate to cherry pick one of the best periods in market history.

More importantly, home ownership is only partially an economic decision. Any slightly intelligent financial advisor will split out your home from all other analysis. Because it is a place you live. Where you raise your family. Where you entertain friends. Where you build a community. It is obviously often a big portion of your net worth so that can't be ignored. But those whoh view this as solely transactional are not people I want in my life.

And your Hamptons humblebrag says you are likely in that category. But yeah, you're rich.

what hamptons humblebrag. we are north of the highway. we paid $1mm, it's worth a lot more now given RE appreciation and some renovations. It's a very modest house but in a good location. we won't sell - per your excellent points on RE. some years we rent it out for a few weeks to a month to help pay the carrying costs.

we are solidly lower end of affluent. slightly more than 10mm investments, 2mm in RE. we don't feel rich. we still look for sales - but do travel well and do prioritize education so pay for private school.

I haircut the market returns (i think if using equity returns the value would be over 1.4mm post tax). i agree with your point. Not cherry picking, just using our example. In fact we have been fortunate to earn a decent amount above the market returns but that might be luck/randomness.

are you saying that we can't raise a family, entertain, build a community in a rental building? we have lived same building for 13 years. we have many close friends in the building. your assumption on not creating roots in a rental is not necessarily true.

You are affluent. Trust me. You can stop working tomorrow and life pretty nicely based on the timeline you presented - put in a few more years and you are definitely all set (assuming you are 45+). I know you are trying to be modest and respect that but it just makes others feel bad about themselves.

i did say lower end affluent. and yes, probably working for another 5 years and we can retire since college is paid for and we will be in okay shape. we will have some inheritance as well which unfortunately will most likely come in 5 years or less.

the way we think about it is that if we have $15mm we can draw 4% a year and have $50k a month in retirement which is a very nice retirement. that's what we are targetting.

And by continuing to share those details you are continuing to humblebrag. Congrats. You're rich. Yeah for you. Go to your club and act important rather than gracing us lowly message board posters with the blessing of your precious time.

Sorry that wasn't my intent but I can see how you interpret the comments.

We don't belong to any club and we don't feel wealthy most of the time. But I guess zooming out - we are definitely fortunate and doing very well overall.

thank you for providing perspective.

NP - I am the person with the townhouses who enjoyed your post. It isn't every day I can have an open discussion without worrying about offending someone. I use to get offended when I saw someone wear their school merch as bragging than I realize it is more about me than others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God our coops assessments in the past five years are pushing us to sell. Above 7k common charges and taxes, we have a new assessment for four years for god knows how much and we just finished a previous assessment. We have two kids at private and honestly wish we were renting.

We keep having assessments because a jerk in our building (pretentious TT parent) keeps dreaming up ways to spend my money on special projects to keep him busy. Some of them are nice amenities that theoretically add value, but some are projects to keep him entertained. He controls enough votes to stay on the board and the rest of the board rolls over for him. Meanwhile he abuses the staff. Miserable.

I wouldn’t own an apartment unless the money didn’t mean much to me. The equity is going to be wiped out the way the land lease buildings have been going. For me it is townhouse or rent.

Why would the equity be wiped out if you are not in a land lease building? Curious how you reached that conclusion.

Many building are old and have deferred repairs. The up-keeping will continue to get more expensive. Between the maintenance, assessments, and taxes you are owning a liability more than an asset. The value of wanting to buy into a co-op will continue to decrease.

Most common I see is people buy into new condo and taking advantage of the tax abatement and new facilities. Try to sell before it expires and the expenses goes up in 10 years.

And you think rentals aren’t passing along the repair cost to you?

Most families I know who rent face huge massive rent increases annually.

Rent is based on market factors and what someone willing to pay. Many are moving to the outer borough. The old buildings will be competing with new buildings that have tax abatement and can offer one free month of rent.

There has also been a decline in students enrolled in public school, so it been trending for families to leave the city.

lots of BS in this post.

first of all, a free month and tax abatement are different things - one is rental one is ownership.

Rents have gone up the last few years pretty aggressively. that being said, our rent has been pretty reasonable - we started at 7,500 about 13 years ago and is now 9,500. it barely moved from 2013 to 2022. from 2023-2026 it has gone up 20%.

the 300k down payment we saved has moved up to over 1.0MM (post tax) due to equity and bond market returns. The maintenance costs have increased in the buildings we looked at buying as well. We are much better off having rented.

now, we did put $200k down on a house in the hamptons - that down payment has ballooned in value to over $1MM (and that's incorporating capital gains in the event we sold). we have had Interest only loans for the majority of the 18 years we have owned it.

You have also been fortunate to cherry pick one of the best periods in market history.

More importantly, home ownership is only partially an economic decision. Any slightly intelligent financial advisor will split out your home from all other analysis. Because it is a place you live. Where you raise your family. Where you entertain friends. Where you build a community. It is obviously often a big portion of your net worth so that can't be ignored. But those whoh view this as solely transactional are not people I want in my life.

And your Hamptons humblebrag says you are likely in that category. But yeah, you're rich.

what hamptons humblebrag. we are north of the highway. we paid $1mm, it's worth a lot more now given RE appreciation and some renovations. It's a very modest house but in a good location. we won't sell - per your excellent points on RE. some years we rent it out for a few weeks to a month to help pay the carrying costs.

we are solidly lower end of affluent. slightly more than 10mm investments, 2mm in RE. we don't feel rich. we still look for sales - but do travel well and do prioritize education so pay for private school.

I haircut the market returns (i think if using equity returns the value would be over 1.4mm post tax). i agree with your point. Not cherry picking, just using our example. In fact we have been fortunate to earn a decent amount above the market returns but that might be luck/randomness.

are you saying that we can't raise a family, entertain, build a community in a rental building? we have lived same building for 13 years. we have many close friends in the building. your assumption on not creating roots in a rental is not necessarily true.

You are affluent. Trust me. You can stop working tomorrow and life pretty nicely based on the timeline you presented - put in a few more years and you are definitely all set (assuming you are 45+). I know you are trying to be modest and respect that but it just makes others feel bad about themselves.

i did say lower end affluent. and yes, probably working for another 5 years and we can retire since college is paid for and we will be in okay shape. we will have some inheritance as well which unfortunately will most likely come in 5 years or less.

the way we think about it is that if we have $15mm we can draw 4% a year and have $50k a month in retirement which is a very nice retirement. that's what we are targetting.

And by continuing to share those details you are continuing to humblebrag. Congrats. You're rich. Yeah for you. Go to your club and act important rather than gracing us lowly message board posters with the blessing of your precious time.

Sorry that wasn't my intent but I can see how you interpret the comments.

We don't belong to any club and we don't feel wealthy most of the time. But I guess zooming out - we are definitely fortunate and doing very well overall.

thank you for providing perspective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God our coops assessments in the past five years are pushing us to sell. Above 7k common charges and taxes, we have a new assessment for four years for god knows how much and we just finished a previous assessment. We have two kids at private and honestly wish we were renting.

We keep having assessments because a jerk in our building (pretentious TT parent) keeps dreaming up ways to spend my money on special projects to keep him busy. Some of them are nice amenities that theoretically add value, but some are projects to keep him entertained. He controls enough votes to stay on the board and the rest of the board rolls over for him. Meanwhile he abuses the staff. Miserable.

I wouldn’t own an apartment unless the money didn’t mean much to me. The equity is going to be wiped out the way the land lease buildings have been going. For me it is townhouse or rent.

Why would the equity be wiped out if you are not in a land lease building? Curious how you reached that conclusion.

Many building are old and have deferred repairs. The up-keeping will continue to get more expensive. Between the maintenance, assessments, and taxes you are owning a liability more than an asset. The value of wanting to buy into a co-op will continue to decrease.

Most common I see is people buy into new condo and taking advantage of the tax abatement and new facilities. Try to sell before it expires and the expenses goes up in 10 years.

And you think rentals aren’t passing along the repair cost to you?

Most families I know who rent face huge massive rent increases annually.

Rent is based on market factors and what someone willing to pay. Many are moving to the outer borough. The old buildings will be competing with new buildings that have tax abatement and can offer one free month of rent.

There has also been a decline in students enrolled in public school, so it been trending for families to leave the city.

lots of BS in this post.

first of all, a free month and tax abatement are different things - one is rental one is ownership.

Rents have gone up the last few years pretty aggressively. that being said, our rent has been pretty reasonable - we started at 7,500 about 13 years ago and is now 9,500. it barely moved from 2013 to 2022. from 2023-2026 it has gone up 20%.

the 300k down payment we saved has moved up to over 1.0MM (post tax) due to equity and bond market returns. The maintenance costs have increased in the buildings we looked at buying as well. We are much better off having rented.

now, we did put $200k down on a house in the hamptons - that down payment has ballooned in value to over $1MM (and that's incorporating capital gains in the event we sold). we have had Interest only loans for the majority of the 18 years we have owned it.

You have also been fortunate to cherry pick one of the best periods in market history.

More importantly, home ownership is only partially an economic decision. Any slightly intelligent financial advisor will split out your home from all other analysis. Because it is a place you live. Where you raise your family. Where you entertain friends. Where you build a community. It is obviously often a big portion of your net worth so that can't be ignored. But those whoh view this as solely transactional are not people I want in my life.

And your Hamptons humblebrag says you are likely in that category. But yeah, you're rich.

what hamptons humblebrag. we are north of the highway. we paid $1mm, it's worth a lot more now given RE appreciation and some renovations. It's a very modest house but in a good location. we won't sell - per your excellent points on RE. some years we rent it out for a few weeks to a month to help pay the carrying costs.

we are solidly lower end of affluent. slightly more than 10mm investments, 2mm in RE. we don't feel rich. we still look for sales - but do travel well and do prioritize education so pay for private school.

I haircut the market returns (i think if using equity returns the value would be over 1.4mm post tax). i agree with your point. Not cherry picking, just using our example. In fact we have been fortunate to earn a decent amount above the market returns but that might be luck/randomness.

are you saying that we can't raise a family, entertain, build a community in a rental building? we have lived same building for 13 years. we have many close friends in the building. your assumption on not creating roots in a rental is not necessarily true.

You are affluent. Trust me. You can stop working tomorrow and life pretty nicely based on the timeline you presented - put in a few more years and you are definitely all set (assuming you are 45+). I know you are trying to be modest and respect that but it just makes others feel bad about themselves.

i did say lower end affluent. and yes, probably working for another 5 years and we can retire since college is paid for and we will be in okay shape. we will have some inheritance as well which unfortunately will most likely come in 5 years or less.

the way we think about it is that if we have $15mm we can draw 4% a year and have $50k a month in retirement which is a very nice retirement. that's what we are targetting.

And by continuing to share those details you are continuing to humblebrag. Congrats. You're rich. Yeah for you. Go to your club and act important rather than gracing us lowly message board posters with the blessing of your precious time.

UES is very conservative. People normally don't talk about money unless it is the school.

Agreed. I know this is an anonymous forum so she things it is a good place to get her jollies out but it is still very gauche.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God our coops assessments in the past five years are pushing us to sell. Above 7k common charges and taxes, we have a new assessment for four years for god knows how much and we just finished a previous assessment. We have two kids at private and honestly wish we were renting.

We keep having assessments because a jerk in our building (pretentious TT parent) keeps dreaming up ways to spend my money on special projects to keep him busy. Some of them are nice amenities that theoretically add value, but some are projects to keep him entertained. He controls enough votes to stay on the board and the rest of the board rolls over for him. Meanwhile he abuses the staff. Miserable.

I wouldn’t own an apartment unless the money didn’t mean much to me. The equity is going to be wiped out the way the land lease buildings have been going. For me it is townhouse or rent.

Why would the equity be wiped out if you are not in a land lease building? Curious how you reached that conclusion.

Many building are old and have deferred repairs. The up-keeping will continue to get more expensive. Between the maintenance, assessments, and taxes you are owning a liability more than an asset. The value of wanting to buy into a co-op will continue to decrease.

Most common I see is people buy into new condo and taking advantage of the tax abatement and new facilities. Try to sell before it expires and the expenses goes up in 10 years.

And you think rentals aren’t passing along the repair cost to you?

Most families I know who rent face huge massive rent increases annually.

Rent is based on market factors and what someone willing to pay. Many are moving to the outer borough. The old buildings will be competing with new buildings that have tax abatement and can offer one free month of rent.

There has also been a decline in students enrolled in public school, so it been trending for families to leave the city.

lots of BS in this post.

first of all, a free month and tax abatement are different things - one is rental one is ownership.

Rents have gone up the last few years pretty aggressively. that being said, our rent has been pretty reasonable - we started at 7,500 about 13 years ago and is now 9,500. it barely moved from 2013 to 2022. from 2023-2026 it has gone up 20%.

the 300k down payment we saved has moved up to over 1.0MM (post tax) due to equity and bond market returns. The maintenance costs have increased in the buildings we looked at buying as well. We are much better off having rented.

now, we did put $200k down on a house in the hamptons - that down payment has ballooned in value to over $1MM (and that's incorporating capital gains in the event we sold). we have had Interest only loans for the majority of the 18 years we have owned it.

You have also been fortunate to cherry pick one of the best periods in market history.

More importantly, home ownership is only partially an economic decision. Any slightly intelligent financial advisor will split out your home from all other analysis. Because it is a place you live. Where you raise your family. Where you entertain friends. Where you build a community. It is obviously often a big portion of your net worth so that can't be ignored. But those whoh view this as solely transactional are not people I want in my life.

And your Hamptons humblebrag says you are likely in that category. But yeah, you're rich.

what hamptons humblebrag. we are north of the highway. we paid $1mm, it's worth a lot more now given RE appreciation and some renovations. It's a very modest house but in a good location. we won't sell - per your excellent points on RE. some years we rent it out for a few weeks to a month to help pay the carrying costs.

we are solidly lower end of affluent. slightly more than 10mm investments, 2mm in RE. we don't feel rich. we still look for sales - but do travel well and do prioritize education so pay for private school.

I haircut the market returns (i think if using equity returns the value would be over 1.4mm post tax). i agree with your point. Not cherry picking, just using our example. In fact we have been fortunate to earn a decent amount above the market returns but that might be luck/randomness.

are you saying that we can't raise a family, entertain, build a community in a rental building? we have lived same building for 13 years. we have many close friends in the building. your assumption on not creating roots in a rental is not necessarily true.

You are affluent. Trust me. You can stop working tomorrow and life pretty nicely based on the timeline you presented - put in a few more years and you are definitely all set (assuming you are 45+). I know you are trying to be modest and respect that but it just makes others feel bad about themselves.

i did say lower end affluent. and yes, probably working for another 5 years and we can retire since college is paid for and we will be in okay shape. we will have some inheritance as well which unfortunately will most likely come in 5 years or less.

the way we think about it is that if we have $15mm we can draw 4% a year and have $50k a month in retirement which is a very nice retirement. that's what we are targetting.

And by continuing to share those details you are continuing to humblebrag. Congrats. You're rich. Yeah for you. Go to your club and act important rather than gracing us lowly message board posters with the blessing of your precious time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God our coops assessments in the past five years are pushing us to sell. Above 7k common charges and taxes, we have a new assessment for four years for god knows how much and we just finished a previous assessment. We have two kids at private and honestly wish we were renting.

We keep having assessments because a jerk in our building (pretentious TT parent) keeps dreaming up ways to spend my money on special projects to keep him busy. Some of them are nice amenities that theoretically add value, but some are projects to keep him entertained. He controls enough votes to stay on the board and the rest of the board rolls over for him. Meanwhile he abuses the staff. Miserable.

I wouldn’t own an apartment unless the money didn’t mean much to me. The equity is going to be wiped out the way the land lease buildings have been going. For me it is townhouse or rent.

Why would the equity be wiped out if you are not in a land lease building? Curious how you reached that conclusion.

Many building are old and have deferred repairs. The up-keeping will continue to get more expensive. Between the maintenance, assessments, and taxes you are owning a liability more than an asset. The value of wanting to buy into a co-op will continue to decrease.

Most common I see is people buy into new condo and taking advantage of the tax abatement and new facilities. Try to sell before it expires and the expenses goes up in 10 years.

And you think rentals aren’t passing along the repair cost to you?

Most families I know who rent face huge massive rent increases annually.

Rent is based on market factors and what someone willing to pay. Many are moving to the outer borough. The old buildings will be competing with new buildings that have tax abatement and can offer one free month of rent.

There has also been a decline in students enrolled in public school, so it been trending for families to leave the city.

lots of BS in this post.

first of all, a free month and tax abatement are different things - one is rental one is ownership.

Rents have gone up the last few years pretty aggressively. that being said, our rent has been pretty reasonable - we started at 7,500 about 13 years ago and is now 9,500. it barely moved from 2013 to 2022. from 2023-2026 it has gone up 20%.

the 300k down payment we saved has moved up to over 1.0MM (post tax) due to equity and bond market returns. The maintenance costs have increased in the buildings we looked at buying as well. We are much better off having rented.

now, we did put $200k down on a house in the hamptons - that down payment has ballooned in value to over $1MM (and that's incorporating capital gains in the event we sold). we have had Interest only loans for the majority of the 18 years we have owned it.

You have also been fortunate to cherry pick one of the best periods in market history.

More importantly, home ownership is only partially an economic decision. Any slightly intelligent financial advisor will split out your home from all other analysis. Because it is a place you live. Where you raise your family. Where you entertain friends. Where you build a community. It is obviously often a big portion of your net worth so that can't be ignored. But those whoh view this as solely transactional are not people I want in my life.

And your Hamptons humblebrag says you are likely in that category. But yeah, you're rich.

what hamptons humblebrag. we are north of the highway. we paid $1mm, it's worth a lot more now given RE appreciation and some renovations. It's a very modest house but in a good location. we won't sell - per your excellent points on RE. some years we rent it out for a few weeks to a month to help pay the carrying costs.

we are solidly lower end of affluent. slightly more than 10mm investments, 2mm in RE. we don't feel rich. we still look for sales - but do travel well and do prioritize education so pay for private school.

I haircut the market returns (i think if using equity returns the value would be over 1.4mm post tax). i agree with your point. Not cherry picking, just using our example. In fact we have been fortunate to earn a decent amount above the market returns but that might be luck/randomness.

are you saying that we can't raise a family, entertain, build a community in a rental building? we have lived same building for 13 years. we have many close friends in the building. your assumption on not creating roots in a rental is not necessarily true.

You are affluent. Trust me. You can stop working tomorrow and life pretty nicely based on the timeline you presented - put in a few more years and you are definitely all set (assuming you are 45+). I know you are trying to be modest and respect that but it just makes others feel bad about themselves.

i did say lower end affluent. and yes, probably working for another 5 years and we can retire since college is paid for and we will be in okay shape. we will have some inheritance as well which unfortunately will most likely come in 5 years or less.

the way we think about it is that if we have $15mm we can draw 4% a year and have $50k a month in retirement which is a very nice retirement. that's what we are targetting.

And by continuing to share those details you are continuing to humblebrag. Congrats. You're rich. Yeah for you. Go to your club and act important rather than gracing us lowly message board posters with the blessing of your precious time.

UES is very conservative. People normally don't talk about money unless it is the school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God our coops assessments in the past five years are pushing us to sell. Above 7k common charges and taxes, we have a new assessment for four years for god knows how much and we just finished a previous assessment. We have two kids at private and honestly wish we were renting.

We keep having assessments because a jerk in our building (pretentious TT parent) keeps dreaming up ways to spend my money on special projects to keep him busy. Some of them are nice amenities that theoretically add value, but some are projects to keep him entertained. He controls enough votes to stay on the board and the rest of the board rolls over for him. Meanwhile he abuses the staff. Miserable.

I wouldn’t own an apartment unless the money didn’t mean much to me. The equity is going to be wiped out the way the land lease buildings have been going. For me it is townhouse or rent.

Why would the equity be wiped out if you are not in a land lease building? Curious how you reached that conclusion.

Many building are old and have deferred repairs. The up-keeping will continue to get more expensive. Between the maintenance, assessments, and taxes you are owning a liability more than an asset. The value of wanting to buy into a co-op will continue to decrease.

Most common I see is people buy into new condo and taking advantage of the tax abatement and new facilities. Try to sell before it expires and the expenses goes up in 10 years.

And you think rentals aren’t passing along the repair cost to you?

Most families I know who rent face huge massive rent increases annually.

Rent is based on market factors and what someone willing to pay. Many are moving to the outer borough. The old buildings will be competing with new buildings that have tax abatement and can offer one free month of rent.

There has also been a decline in students enrolled in public school, so it been trending for families to leave the city.

lots of BS in this post.

first of all, a free month and tax abatement are different things - one is rental one is ownership.

Rents have gone up the last few years pretty aggressively. that being said, our rent has been pretty reasonable - we started at 7,500 about 13 years ago and is now 9,500. it barely moved from 2013 to 2022. from 2023-2026 it has gone up 20%.

the 300k down payment we saved has moved up to over 1.0MM (post tax) due to equity and bond market returns. The maintenance costs have increased in the buildings we looked at buying as well. We are much better off having rented.

now, we did put $200k down on a house in the hamptons - that down payment has ballooned in value to over $1MM (and that's incorporating capital gains in the event we sold). we have had Interest only loans for the majority of the 18 years we have owned it.

You have also been fortunate to cherry pick one of the best periods in market history.

More importantly, home ownership is only partially an economic decision. Any slightly intelligent financial advisor will split out your home from all other analysis. Because it is a place you live. Where you raise your family. Where you entertain friends. Where you build a community. It is obviously often a big portion of your net worth so that can't be ignored. But those whoh view this as solely transactional are not people I want in my life.

And your Hamptons humblebrag says you are likely in that category. But yeah, you're rich.

what hamptons humblebrag. we are north of the highway. we paid $1mm, it's worth a lot more now given RE appreciation and some renovations. It's a very modest house but in a good location. we won't sell - per your excellent points on RE. some years we rent it out for a few weeks to a month to help pay the carrying costs.

we are solidly lower end of affluent. slightly more than 10mm investments, 2mm in RE. we don't feel rich. we still look for sales - but do travel well and do prioritize education so pay for private school.

I haircut the market returns (i think if using equity returns the value would be over 1.4mm post tax). i agree with your point. Not cherry picking, just using our example. In fact we have been fortunate to earn a decent amount above the market returns but that might be luck/randomness.

are you saying that we can't raise a family, entertain, build a community in a rental building? we have lived same building for 13 years. we have many close friends in the building. your assumption on not creating roots in a rental is not necessarily true.

You are affluent. Trust me. You can stop working tomorrow and life pretty nicely based on the timeline you presented - put in a few more years and you are definitely all set (assuming you are 45+). I know you are trying to be modest and respect that but it just makes others feel bad about themselves.

i did say lower end affluent. and yes, probably working for another 5 years and we can retire since college is paid for and we will be in okay shape. we will have some inheritance as well which unfortunately will most likely come in 5 years or less.

the way we think about it is that if we have $15mm we can draw 4% a year and have $50k a month in retirement which is a very nice retirement. that's what we are targetting.

And by continuing to share those details you are continuing to humblebrag. Congrats. You're rich. Yeah for you. Go to your club and act important rather than gracing us lowly message board posters with the blessing of your precious time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God our coops assessments in the past five years are pushing us to sell. Above 7k common charges and taxes, we have a new assessment for four years for god knows how much and we just finished a previous assessment. We have two kids at private and honestly wish we were renting.

We keep having assessments because a jerk in our building (pretentious TT parent) keeps dreaming up ways to spend my money on special projects to keep him busy. Some of them are nice amenities that theoretically add value, but some are projects to keep him entertained. He controls enough votes to stay on the board and the rest of the board rolls over for him. Meanwhile he abuses the staff. Miserable.

I wouldn’t own an apartment unless the money didn’t mean much to me. The equity is going to be wiped out the way the land lease buildings have been going. For me it is townhouse or rent.

Why would the equity be wiped out if you are not in a land lease building? Curious how you reached that conclusion.

Many building are old and have deferred repairs. The up-keeping will continue to get more expensive. Between the maintenance, assessments, and taxes you are owning a liability more than an asset. The value of wanting to buy into a co-op will continue to decrease.

Most common I see is people buy into new condo and taking advantage of the tax abatement and new facilities. Try to sell before it expires and the expenses goes up in 10 years.

And you think rentals aren’t passing along the repair cost to you?

Most families I know who rent face huge massive rent increases annually.

Rent is based on market factors and what someone willing to pay. Many are moving to the outer borough. The old buildings will be competing with new buildings that have tax abatement and can offer one free month of rent.

There has also been a decline in students enrolled in public school, so it been trending for families to leave the city.

lots of BS in this post.

first of all, a free month and tax abatement are different things - one is rental one is ownership.

Rents have gone up the last few years pretty aggressively. that being said, our rent has been pretty reasonable - we started at 7,500 about 13 years ago and is now 9,500. it barely moved from 2013 to 2022. from 2023-2026 it has gone up 20%.

the 300k down payment we saved has moved up to over 1.0MM (post tax) due to equity and bond market returns. The maintenance costs have increased in the buildings we looked at buying as well. We are much better off having rented.

now, we did put $200k down on a house in the hamptons - that down payment has ballooned in value to over $1MM (and that's incorporating capital gains in the event we sold). we have had Interest only loans for the majority of the 18 years we have owned it.

You have also been fortunate to cherry pick one of the best periods in market history.

More importantly, home ownership is only partially an economic decision. Any slightly intelligent financial advisor will split out your home from all other analysis. Because it is a place you live. Where you raise your family. Where you entertain friends. Where you build a community. It is obviously often a big portion of your net worth so that can't be ignored. But those whoh view this as solely transactional are not people I want in my life.

And your Hamptons humblebrag says you are likely in that category. But yeah, you're rich.

what hamptons humblebrag. we are north of the highway. we paid $1mm, it's worth a lot more now given RE appreciation and some renovations. It's a very modest house but in a good location. we won't sell - per your excellent points on RE. some years we rent it out for a few weeks to a month to help pay the carrying costs.

we are solidly lower end of affluent. slightly more than 10mm investments, 2mm in RE. we don't feel rich. we still look for sales - but do travel well and do prioritize education so pay for private school.

I haircut the market returns (i think if using equity returns the value would be over 1.4mm post tax). i agree with your point. Not cherry picking, just using our example. In fact we have been fortunate to earn a decent amount above the market returns but that might be luck/randomness.

are you saying that we can't raise a family, entertain, build a community in a rental building? we have lived same building for 13 years. we have many close friends in the building. your assumption on not creating roots in a rental is not necessarily true.

You are affluent. Trust me. You can stop working tomorrow and life pretty nicely based on the timeline you presented - put in a few more years and you are definitely all set (assuming you are 45+). I know you are trying to be modest and respect that but it just makes others feel bad about themselves.

i did say lower end affluent. and yes, probably working for another 5 years and we can retire since college is paid for and we will be in okay shape. we will have some inheritance as well which unfortunately will most likely come in 5 years or less.

the way we think about it is that if we have $15mm we can draw 4% a year and have $50k a month in retirement which is a very nice retirement. that's what we are targetting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God our coops assessments in the past five years are pushing us to sell. Above 7k common charges and taxes, we have a new assessment for four years for god knows how much and we just finished a previous assessment. We have two kids at private and honestly wish we were renting.

We keep having assessments because a jerk in our building (pretentious TT parent) keeps dreaming up ways to spend my money on special projects to keep him busy. Some of them are nice amenities that theoretically add value, but some are projects to keep him entertained. He controls enough votes to stay on the board and the rest of the board rolls over for him. Meanwhile he abuses the staff. Miserable.

I wouldn’t own an apartment unless the money didn’t mean much to me. The equity is going to be wiped out the way the land lease buildings have been going. For me it is townhouse or rent.

Why would the equity be wiped out if you are not in a land lease building? Curious how you reached that conclusion.

Many building are old and have deferred repairs. The up-keeping will continue to get more expensive. Between the maintenance, assessments, and taxes you are owning a liability more than an asset. The value of wanting to buy into a co-op will continue to decrease.

Most common I see is people buy into new condo and taking advantage of the tax abatement and new facilities. Try to sell before it expires and the expenses goes up in 10 years.

And you think rentals aren’t passing along the repair cost to you?

Most families I know who rent face huge massive rent increases annually.

Rent is based on market factors and what someone willing to pay. Many are moving to the outer borough. The old buildings will be competing with new buildings that have tax abatement and can offer one free month of rent.

There has also been a decline in students enrolled in public school, so it been trending for families to leave the city.

lots of BS in this post.

first of all, a free month and tax abatement are different things - one is rental one is ownership.

Rents have gone up the last few years pretty aggressively. that being said, our rent has been pretty reasonable - we started at 7,500 about 13 years ago and is now 9,500. it barely moved from 2013 to 2022. from 2023-2026 it has gone up 20%.

the 300k down payment we saved has moved up to over 1.0MM (post tax) due to equity and bond market returns. The maintenance costs have increased in the buildings we looked at buying as well. We are much better off having rented.

now, we did put $200k down on a house in the hamptons - that down payment has ballooned in value to over $1MM (and that's incorporating capital gains in the event we sold). we have had Interest only loans for the majority of the 18 years we have owned it.

This is solid analysis. It would take them another 15 years, at least, for buying to have made sense, if ever. Whereas SFH in vacation areas will do well due to limited inventory. Ignore the social stigma of renting and do what makes sense financially or buy knowing it is suboptimal financially.

PP here - for the first time I feel like buying as some merits in manhattan. Have rented for 30 years. 3 different apartments.

my issue is supply from non resident owner apartments (if this tax goes thru), negative feelings about NY - costs going up and given the huge pension and social liabilities the taxes will have to go up or QOL go down, do i really want to live on the UES/UWS post kids schooling.

but at some point, we will do the suboptimal thing and buy due to spousal desire.

Rent the 2 or 3br until the kids leave the nest. Then buy or rent a studio. Live elsewhere and come in for big nights and to see friends. Much more cost effective. People here consistently ignore how much monthlies have gone up for coops, through the roof

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God our coops assessments in the past five years are pushing us to sell. Above 7k common charges and taxes, we have a new assessment for four years for god knows how much and we just finished a previous assessment. We have two kids at private and honestly wish we were renting.

We keep having assessments because a jerk in our building (pretentious TT parent) keeps dreaming up ways to spend my money on special projects to keep him busy. Some of them are nice amenities that theoretically add value, but some are projects to keep him entertained. He controls enough votes to stay on the board and the rest of the board rolls over for him. Meanwhile he abuses the staff. Miserable.

I wouldn’t own an apartment unless the money didn’t mean much to me. The equity is going to be wiped out the way the land lease buildings have been going. For me it is townhouse or rent.

Why would the equity be wiped out if you are not in a land lease building? Curious how you reached that conclusion.

Many building are old and have deferred repairs. The up-keeping will continue to get more expensive. Between the maintenance, assessments, and taxes you are owning a liability more than an asset. The value of wanting to buy into a co-op will continue to decrease.

Most common I see is people buy into new condo and taking advantage of the tax abatement and new facilities. Try to sell before it expires and the expenses goes up in 10 years.

And you think rentals aren’t passing along the repair cost to you?

Most families I know who rent face huge massive rent increases annually.

Rent is based on market factors and what someone willing to pay. Many are moving to the outer borough. The old buildings will be competing with new buildings that have tax abatement and can offer one free month of rent.

There has also been a decline in students enrolled in public school, so it been trending for families to leave the city.

lots of BS in this post.

first of all, a free month and tax abatement are different things - one is rental one is ownership.

Rents have gone up the last few years pretty aggressively. that being said, our rent has been pretty reasonable - we started at 7,500 about 13 years ago and is now 9,500. it barely moved from 2013 to 2022. from 2023-2026 it has gone up 20%.

the 300k down payment we saved has moved up to over 1.0MM (post tax) due to equity and bond market returns. The maintenance costs have increased in the buildings we looked at buying as well. We are much better off having rented.

now, we did put $200k down on a house in the hamptons - that down payment has ballooned in value to over $1MM (and that's incorporating capital gains in the event we sold). we have had Interest only loans for the majority of the 18 years we have owned it.

You have also been fortunate to cherry pick one of the best periods in market history.

More importantly, home ownership is only partially an economic decision. Any slightly intelligent financial advisor will split out your home from all other analysis. Because it is a place you live. Where you raise your family. Where you entertain friends. Where you build a community. It is obviously often a big portion of your net worth so that can't be ignored. But those whoh view this as solely transactional are not people I want in my life.

And your Hamptons humblebrag says you are likely in that category. But yeah, you're rich.

what hamptons humblebrag. we are north of the highway. we paid $1mm, it's worth a lot more now given RE appreciation and some renovations. It's a very modest house but in a good location. we won't sell - per your excellent points on RE. some years we rent it out for a few weeks to a month to help pay the carrying costs.

we are solidly lower end of affluent. slightly more than 10mm investments, 2mm in RE. we don't feel rich. we still look for sales - but do travel well and do prioritize education so pay for private school.

I haircut the market returns (i think if using equity returns the value would be over 1.4mm post tax). i agree with your point. Not cherry picking, just using our example. In fact we have been fortunate to earn a decent amount above the market returns but that might be luck/randomness.

are you saying that we can't raise a family, entertain, build a community in a rental building? we have lived same building for 13 years. we have many close friends in the building. your assumption on not creating roots in a rental is not necessarily true.

You are affluent. Trust me. You can stop working tomorrow and life pretty nicely based on the timeline you presented - put in a few more years and you are definitely all set (assuming you are 45+). I know you are trying to be modest and respect that but it just makes others feel bad about themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God our coops assessments in the past five years are pushing us to sell. Above 7k common charges and taxes, we have a new assessment for four years for god knows how much and we just finished a previous assessment. We have two kids at private and honestly wish we were renting.

We keep having assessments because a jerk in our building (pretentious TT parent) keeps dreaming up ways to spend my money on special projects to keep him busy. Some of them are nice amenities that theoretically add value, but some are projects to keep him entertained. He controls enough votes to stay on the board and the rest of the board rolls over for him. Meanwhile he abuses the staff. Miserable.

I wouldn’t own an apartment unless the money didn’t mean much to me. The equity is going to be wiped out the way the land lease buildings have been going. For me it is townhouse or rent.

Why would the equity be wiped out if you are not in a land lease building? Curious how you reached that conclusion.

Many building are old and have deferred repairs. The up-keeping will continue to get more expensive. Between the maintenance, assessments, and taxes you are owning a liability more than an asset. The value of wanting to buy into a co-op will continue to decrease.

Most common I see is people buy into new condo and taking advantage of the tax abatement and new facilities. Try to sell before it expires and the expenses goes up in 10 years.

And you think rentals aren’t passing along the repair cost to you?

Most families I know who rent face huge massive rent increases annually.

Rent is based on market factors and what someone willing to pay. Many are moving to the outer borough. The old buildings will be competing with new buildings that have tax abatement and can offer one free month of rent.

There has also been a decline in students enrolled in public school, so it been trending for families to leave the city.

lots of BS in this post.

first of all, a free month and tax abatement are different things - one is rental one is ownership.

Rents have gone up the last few years pretty aggressively. that being said, our rent has been pretty reasonable - we started at 7,500 about 13 years ago and is now 9,500. it barely moved from 2013 to 2022. from 2023-2026 it has gone up 20%.

the 300k down payment we saved has moved up to over 1.0MM (post tax) due to equity and bond market returns. The maintenance costs have increased in the buildings we looked at buying as well. We are much better off having rented.

now, we did put $200k down on a house in the hamptons - that down payment has ballooned in value to over $1MM (and that's incorporating capital gains in the event we sold). we have had Interest only loans for the majority of the 18 years we have owned it.

I meant to say the developer recieves the tax abatement and can undercut rent price by offering a free month.

We own 2 townhouses. We have no housing cost as our properties turn a profit. We have fixed rate loans at 3% from COVID refinance. We didn't consider to be as levered as you.

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Anonymous wrote:God our coops assessments in the past five years are pushing us to sell. Above 7k common charges and taxes, we have a new assessment for four years for god knows how much and we just finished a previous assessment. We have two kids at private and honestly wish we were renting.

We keep having assessments because a jerk in our building (pretentious TT parent) keeps dreaming up ways to spend my money on special projects to keep him busy. Some of them are nice amenities that theoretically add value, but some are projects to keep him entertained. He controls enough votes to stay on the board and the rest of the board rolls over for him. Meanwhile he abuses the staff. Miserable.

I wouldn’t own an apartment unless the money didn’t mean much to me. The equity is going to be wiped out the way the land lease buildings have been going. For me it is townhouse or rent.

Why would the equity be wiped out if you are not in a land lease building? Curious how you reached that conclusion.

Many building are old and have deferred repairs. The up-keeping will continue to get more expensive. Between the maintenance, assessments, and taxes you are owning a liability more than an asset. The value of wanting to buy into a co-op will continue to decrease.

Most common I see is people buy into new condo and taking advantage of the tax abatement and new facilities. Try to sell before it expires and the expenses goes up in 10 years.

And you think rentals aren’t passing along the repair cost to you?

Most families I know who rent face huge massive rent increases annually.

Rent is based on market factors and what someone willing to pay. Many are moving to the outer borough. The old buildings will be competing with new buildings that have tax abatement and can offer one free month of rent.

There has also been a decline in students enrolled in public school, so it been trending for families to leave the city.

lots of BS in this post.

first of all, a free month and tax abatement are different things - one is rental one is ownership.

Rents have gone up the last few years pretty aggressively. that being said, our rent has been pretty reasonable - we started at 7,500 about 13 years ago and is now 9,500. it barely moved from 2013 to 2022. from 2023-2026 it has gone up 20%.

the 300k down payment we saved has moved up to over 1.0MM (post tax) due to equity and bond market returns. The maintenance costs have increased in the buildings we looked at buying as well. We are much better off having rented.

now, we did put $200k down on a house in the hamptons - that down payment has ballooned in value to over $1MM (and that's incorporating capital gains in the event we sold). we have had Interest only loans for the majority of the 18 years we have owned it.

You have also been fortunate to cherry pick one of the best periods in market history.

More importantly, home ownership is only partially an economic decision. Any slightly intelligent financial advisor will split out your home from all other analysis. Because it is a place you live. Where you raise your family. Where you entertain friends. Where you build a community. It is obviously often a big portion of your net worth so that can't be ignored. But those whoh view this as solely transactional are not people I want in my life.

And your Hamptons humblebrag says you are likely in that category. But yeah, you're rich.

what hamptons humblebrag. we are north of the highway. we paid $1mm, it's worth a lot more now given RE appreciation and some renovations. It's a very modest house but in a good location. we won't sell - per your excellent points on RE. some years we rent it out for a few weeks to a month to help pay the carrying costs.

we are solidly lower end of affluent. slightly more than 10mm investments, 2mm in RE. we don't feel rich. we still look for sales - but do travel well and do prioritize education so pay for private school.

I haircut the market returns (i think if using equity returns the value would be over 1.4mm post tax). i agree with your point. Not cherry picking, just using our example. In fact we have been fortunate to earn a decent amount above the market returns but that might be luck/randomness.

are you saying that we can't raise a family, entertain, build a community in a rental building? we have lived same building for 13 years. we have many close friends in the building. your assumption on not creating roots in a rental is not necessarily true.

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Anonymous wrote:God our coops assessments in the past five years are pushing us to sell. Above 7k common charges and taxes, we have a new assessment for four years for god knows how much and we just finished a previous assessment. We have two kids at private and honestly wish we were renting.

We keep having assessments because a jerk in our building (pretentious TT parent) keeps dreaming up ways to spend my money on special projects to keep him busy. Some of them are nice amenities that theoretically add value, but some are projects to keep him entertained. He controls enough votes to stay on the board and the rest of the board rolls over for him. Meanwhile he abuses the staff. Miserable.

I wouldn’t own an apartment unless the money didn’t mean much to me. The equity is going to be wiped out the way the land lease buildings have been going. For me it is townhouse or rent.

Why would the equity be wiped out if you are not in a land lease building? Curious how you reached that conclusion.

Many building are old and have deferred repairs. The up-keeping will continue to get more expensive. Between the maintenance, assessments, and taxes you are owning a liability more than an asset. The value of wanting to buy into a co-op will continue to decrease.

Most common I see is people buy into new condo and taking advantage of the tax abatement and new facilities. Try to sell before it expires and the expenses goes up in 10 years.

And you think rentals aren’t passing along the repair cost to you?

Most families I know who rent face huge massive rent increases annually.

Rent is based on market factors and what someone willing to pay. Many are moving to the outer borough. The old buildings will be competing with new buildings that have tax abatement and can offer one free month of rent.

There has also been a decline in students enrolled in public school, so it been trending for families to leave the city.

lots of BS in this post.

first of all, a free month and tax abatement are different things - one is rental one is ownership.

Rents have gone up the last few years pretty aggressively. that being said, our rent has been pretty reasonable - we started at 7,500 about 13 years ago and is now 9,500. it barely moved from 2013 to 2022. from 2023-2026 it has gone up 20%.

the 300k down payment we saved has moved up to over 1.0MM (post tax) due to equity and bond market returns. The maintenance costs have increased in the buildings we looked at buying as well. We are much better off having rented.

now, we did put $200k down on a house in the hamptons - that down payment has ballooned in value to over $1MM (and that's incorporating capital gains in the event we sold). we have had Interest only loans for the majority of the 18 years we have owned it.

This is solid analysis. It would take them another 15 years, at least, for buying to have made sense, if ever. Whereas SFH in vacation areas will do well due to limited inventory. Ignore the social stigma of renting and do what makes sense financially or buy knowing it is suboptimal financially.

PP here - for the first time I feel like buying as some merits in manhattan. Have rented for 30 years. 3 different apartments.

my issue is supply from non resident owner apartments (if this tax goes thru), negative feelings about NY - costs going up and given the huge pension and social liabilities the taxes will have to go up or QOL go down, do i really want to live on the UES/UWS post kids schooling.

but at some point, we will do the suboptimal thing and buy due to spousal desire.