Anonymous wrote:One of the people now sick sat behind one of the sick Dutch former passengers on an airplane. So that throws out the idea they all got it from direct exposure to a rodent or close contact with someone who had it. And yet that is what they keep repeating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even this type of Hanta is not airborne. It’s (in rare cases) transmitted via bodily fluid. While it’s sad for all these people, I think that for everyone else it’s just their Covid PTSD talking.

I don’t think so, some of us are interested in viruses, others feel terrified because we have no one in a position of authority who can protect or guide us anymore.
For all parties, we still have CIDRAP and the WHO. They are reliable and valid sources for information.

You felt protected by the Biden CDC and Fauci during COVID? It is well documented, and many of us in public health could tell at the time, that they were just making up a response without real scientific evidence. They also rushed forward mass immunizing the public, so that any reasonable experiment on longer term efficacy and safety was impossible (without large controls.) The mortality rate/risk of the infection was grossly overestimated for nearly everyone. I guess you were their target audience.

I’m not going to argue with you, it derails the thread. I like to stick to topic.
I will warn you, you will be reported for spreading your anti vax nonsense. Take it somewhere else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay if anyone cares I found the article talking about the outbreak in Argentina about a decade ago, where one person went to a birthday party with 100 people and gave it to 10 of them. I think the person was actively sick though, with a fever and coughing.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2009040

I’m very curious about the jobs of the people on the ship that got sick. It’s been reported one was tj doctor but I wonder if the other two were people that were actively helping the man who got so sick. If he was sick enough to die on the boat he probably needed assistance getting to the sick bay or getting to his room or whatever.

One of the main criticism of that New England journal article was that the authors sequenced the virus, found that the patients had the same strain, but did not investigate whether they had a common exposure other than the party, especially since most of them lived in the same town. Some of the patients had minimal contact with the index case. Perhaps they had gotten infected by an environmental exposure in town - we don’t know because they didn’t look for any other cause.

The other thing we know is that in several studies, after a clusters of Andes virus infections, they did bloodwork on the health care workers and the town residents and no one had antibodies to hantavirus, meaning that they had not been exposed to the virus despite having human to human contact with the patients.

I am the retired ID doc and I would love to have the epidemiologist chime in here - I think the number of infected patients points to either rare human to human transmission from a unique situation that entailed l sustained and close contact, or a shared exposure. The shared exposure seems less likely because both crew and passengers were infected. If it were just passengers, it would point to an exposure from an excursion.

On the bright side, I suppose that the 100+ people on the norovirus plagued cruise ship can at least be relieved they have norovirus and not hantavirus.

This is very interesting, thanks. I didn’t see that a crew member was infected? I saw just passengers. Either way, even though they are assuming that it was from a bird watching trip, couldn’t it be possible that it was from a rodent infestation on the ship?

Apologies, I am probably mistaken there - I thought that there was one crew member that was positive, but perhaps they just had symptoms of some sort.

And by the way, you might be wondering why hantavirus is not easily spread from human to human unlike other viruses like the flu, it’s because influenza hijacks our cells to replicate virus particles, then it kills the cell and the virus is released into our airways. Hantavirus also hijacks our cells to replicate virus particles, but it doesn’t kill the host cell, and instead causes a frenzied overexuberant immune response that kills us. So there isn’t a massive amount of viral particles being expelled in our airways. That is why if it is indeed transmissible between humans, it requires unusually close contact.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay if anyone cares I found the article talking about the outbreak in Argentina about a decade ago, where one person went to a birthday party with 100 people and gave it to 10 of them. I think the person was actively sick though, with a fever and coughing.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2009040

I’m very curious about the jobs of the people on the ship that got sick. It’s been reported one was tj doctor but I wonder if the other two were people that were actively helping the man who got so sick. If he was sick enough to die on the boat he probably needed assistance getting to the sick bay or getting to his room or whatever.

One of the main criticism of that New England journal article was that the authors sequenced the virus, found that the patients had the same strain, but did not investigate whether they had a common exposure other than the party, especially since most of them lived in the same town. Some of the patients had minimal contact with the index case. Perhaps they had gotten infected by an environmental exposure in town - we don’t know because they didn’t look for any other cause.

The other thing we know is that in several studies, after a clusters of Andes virus infections, they did bloodwork on the health care workers and the town residents and no one had antibodies to hantavirus, meaning that they had not been exposed to the virus despite having human to human contact with the patients.

I am the retired ID doc and I would love to have the epidemiologist chime in here - I think the number of infected patients points to either rare human to human transmission from a unique situation that entailed l sustained and close contact, or a shared exposure. The shared exposure seems less likely because both crew and passengers were infected. If it were just passengers, it would point to an exposure from an excursion.

On the bright side, I suppose that the 100+ people on the norovirus plagued cruise ship can at least be relieved they have norovirus and not hantavirus.

This is very interesting, thanks. I didn’t see that a crew member was infected? I saw just passengers. Either way, even though they are assuming that it was from a bird watching trip, couldn’t it be possible that it was from a rodent infestation on the ship?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even this type of Hanta is not airborne. It’s (in rare cases) transmitted via bodily fluid. While it’s sad for all these people, I think that for everyone else it’s just their Covid PTSD talking.

I don’t think so, some of us are interested in viruses, others feel terrified because we have no one in a position of authority who can protect or guide us anymore.
For all parties, we still have CIDRAP and the WHO. They are reliable and valid sources for information.

You felt protected by the Biden CDC and Fauci during COVID? It is well documented, and many of us in public health could tell at the time, that they were just making up a response without real scientific evidence. They also rushed forward mass immunizing the public, so that any reasonable experiment on longer term efficacy and safety was impossible (without large controls.) The mortality rate/risk of the infection was grossly overestimated for nearly everyone. I guess you were their target audience.

I’m not going to argue with you, it derails the thread. I like to stick to topic.
I will warn you, you will be reported for spreading your anti vax nonsense. Take it somewhere else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay if anyone cares I found the article talking about the outbreak in Argentina about a decade ago, where one person went to a birthday party with 100 people and gave it to 10 of them. I think the person was actively sick though, with a fever and coughing.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2009040

I’m very curious about the jobs of the people on the ship that got sick. It’s been reported one was tj doctor but I wonder if the other two were people that were actively helping the man who got so sick. If he was sick enough to die on the boat he probably needed assistance getting to the sick bay or getting to his room or whatever.

One of the main criticism of that New England journal article was that the authors sequenced the virus, found that the patients had the same strain, but did not investigate whether they had a common exposure other than the party, especially since most of them lived in the same town. Some of the patients had minimal contact with the index case. Perhaps they had gotten infected by an environmental exposure in town - we don’t know because they didn’t look for any other cause.

The other thing we know is that in several studies, after a clusters of Andes virus infections, they did bloodwork on the health care workers and the town residents and no one had antibodies to hantavirus, meaning that they had not been exposed to the virus despite having human to human contact with the patients.

I am the retired ID doc and I would love to have the epidemiologist chime in here - I think the number of infected patients points to either rare human to human transmission from a unique situation that entailed l sustained and close contact, or a shared exposure. The shared exposure seems less likely because both crew and passengers were infected. If it were just passengers, it would point to an exposure from an excursion.

On the bright side, I suppose that the 100+ people on the norovirus plagued cruise ship can at least be relieved they have norovirus and not hantavirus.

Anonymous wrote:Okay if anyone cares I found the article talking about the outbreak in Argentina about a decade ago, where one person went to a birthday party with 100 people and gave it to 10 of them. I think the person was actively sick though, with a fever and coughing.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2009040

I’m very curious about the jobs of the people on the ship that got sick. It’s been reported one was tj doctor but I wonder if the other two were people that were actively helping the man who got so sick. If he was sick enough to die on the boat he probably needed assistance getting to the sick bay or getting to his room or whatever.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't hear about the France case being infected on a plane. Link?

Also, I was under the impression that this strain of hantavirus is endemic in Argentina- it's not a novel thing- and it requires very close contact to spread, like sharing a bed, or sharing food. So I suppose being right next to someone on the airplane and sharing a drink with them or something could spread it, but I did not think it was very easily transmissible, not airborne or small droplet spread like flu or covid etc.

The study that supported human to human transmission reported very close contract - “deep kissing” and sexual contact. And a later systematic review, which is a higher level study, said the first study was flawed in several ways and did not look at other environmental exposure besides close contact. So I think there are a lot of questions marks here and the WHO is dealing with a unicorn case where they need to be cautious, but hantavirus is well known to result in small clusters of infections with no history of large outbreaks.

Hantavirus is not prone to mutation despite being an RNA virus, so that is reassuring as well. I wouldn’t be worried about hantavirus this summer, but a month ago, I would have said the chances of a cluster on a cruise ship was close to zero, so what do I know? Retired ID doc here.

Thanks for your expertise!

The study I saw from Argentina said close contact but not to the level of deep kissing. One of the examples was someone that went to a wedding while ill and gave it to several people there. Here's a different article, where several medical professionals that assisted ill people were infected -- so I think close contact, but not necessarily deep kissing. I wouldn't want to be on a dance floor with people coughing and breathing heavily if they had this strain, for instance.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/instance/2627608/pdf/9204298.pdf

the article is 30 years old!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't hear about the France case being infected on a plane. Link?

Also, I was under the impression that this strain of hantavirus is endemic in Argentina- it's not a novel thing- and it requires very close contact to spread, like sharing a bed, or sharing food. So I suppose being right next to someone on the airplane and sharing a drink with them or something could spread it, but I did not think it was very easily transmissible, not airborne or small droplet spread like flu or covid etc.

The study that supported human to human transmission reported very close contract - “deep kissing” and sexual contact. And a later systematic review, which is a higher level study, said the first study was flawed in several ways and did not look at other environmental exposure besides close contact. So I think there are a lot of questions marks here and the WHO is dealing with a unicorn case where they need to be cautious, but hantavirus is well known to result in small clusters of infections with no history of large outbreaks.

Hantavirus is not prone to mutation despite being an RNA virus, so that is reassuring as well. I wouldn’t be worried about hantavirus this summer, but a month ago, I would have said the chances of a cluster on a cruise ship was close to zero, so what do I know? Retired ID doc here.

Thanks for your expertise!

The study I saw from Argentina said close contact but not to the level of deep kissing. One of the examples was someone that went to a wedding while ill and gave it to several people there. Here's a different article, where several medical professionals that assisted ill people were infected -- so I think close contact, but not necessarily deep kissing. I wouldn't want to be on a dance floor with people coughing and breathing heavily if they had this strain, for instance.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/instance/2627608/pdf/9204298.pdf

the article is 30 years old!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't hear about the France case being infected on a plane. Link?

Also, I was under the impression that this strain of hantavirus is endemic in Argentina- it's not a novel thing- and it requires very close contact to spread, like sharing a bed, or sharing food. So I suppose being right next to someone on the airplane and sharing a drink with them or something could spread it, but I did not think it was very easily transmissible, not airborne or small droplet spread like flu or covid etc.

The study that supported human to human transmission reported very close contract - “deep kissing” and sexual contact. And a later systematic review, which is a higher level study, said the first study was flawed in several ways and did not look at other environmental exposure besides close contact. So I think there are a lot of questions marks here and the WHO is dealing with a unicorn case where they need to be cautious, but hantavirus is well known to result in small clusters of infections with no history of large outbreaks.

Hantavirus is not prone to mutation despite being an RNA virus, so that is reassuring as well. I wouldn’t be worried about hantavirus this summer, but a month ago, I would have said the chances of a cluster on a cruise ship was close to zero, so what do I know? Retired ID doc here.

Thanks for your expertise!

The study I saw from Argentina said close contact but not to the level of deep kissing. One of the examples was someone that went to a wedding while ill and gave it to several people there. Here's a different article, where several medical professionals that assisted ill people were infected -- so I think close contact, but not necessarily deep kissing. I wouldn't want to be on a dance floor with people coughing and breathing heavily if they had this strain, for instance.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/instance/2627608/pdf/9204298.pdf