Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

flexible, ability-based grouping within the classroom

^ This
I'm hardly kidding here ~ I think AAP is evil

You think one chair thrower is a resource problem, wait until you ask a teacher to run classes for multiple tracks in the same classroom.

Ummm, the teachers are already being asked to do that....that is the problem

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To address OPs point, I'd say that it just makes home life easier. There are sooo many little problems that are lessened, or just disappear once you segregate out the majority of troublemakers from the class. The teachers are on top of their curriculum, have more time for individual engagement with more children instead of the ones falling behind, and my child isn't being used as an indirect tutor to help the class progress. My needs for home enrichment actually decreased as DC appears to be staying engaged in class and progressing, which wasn't happening in K-2nd. Maybe it's my child's increased maturity (I doubt it), but there are less distractions and social implications to be worried about that makes for less anxiety and fights at home.

I'd say it's 100% not about the stated "advanced" nature, and the benefits are more intrinsic based on the peer group differences. I recognize it's elitist, but it's working for us.

+100 the peer group is miles above the gen ed peer group. I had one kid who got into AAP and one who didn’t. The one who didn’t unfortunately was influenced by the lack of academic rigor from gen Ed over the years - doesn’t want to/isn’t used to working hard, doesn’t know how to study for tests, doesn’t seem to care as much about school. Cares more about being popular. We notice that more of the gen Ed girls are all about clothes, make up and nails by 6th grade whereas the AAP girls are not.

AAP 6th grade teacher here. My AAP girls are ALL about brand names!!

Next thing you'll tell us is how much you are into brands yourself.

Kids are kids, some are into brands and some are into sports and some are into books and some are into math, that incudes AAP kids. There are AAP kids who are problems with regulation and there are well behaved kids in AAP. There are kids who are brand obsessed and kids who could careless in AAP. Too many people on this board want to portray AAP as this bastion of amazingly well behaved kids who are all young academics learning from each other when it is a classroom filled with a small number of gifted kids, a lot of advanced kids, and some kids who work really hard. It is probably more parental involvement that leads to kids being ahead and reasonably well behaved then anything else.

The AAP descriptions match the language immersion descriptions and there is not a selection committee for language immersion. You end up with fewer kids with serious, or even moderate, learning issues. Fewer kids with behavior issues. Mainly you end up with a classroom full of kids whose parents are involved and actively seleccting programs that they think will challenge their kid.

This. Not all of the AAP kids are super studious. In my career, I have had studious, athletes, musicians, popular kids, etc. They are kids like everyone else. They say the same lingo and watch the same stupid YouTube videos.

The point is that AAP does not have the bottom tier kids who are disrupting class with chair throwing, or taking up all the teacher's time because they can't do math from two grade levels ago. Even if there are a lot of average kids who don't exactly "deserve" to be there, not having that bottom tier makes the learning environment so much better. That's a big reason why people want AAP. It's also true in opt-in dual language programs, you're not going to have parents of bottom tier kids signing up for that either because it's too demanding for the kids at the bottom.

“Bottom tier kids”. I hope you are a troll. I do not know one parent in my child’s AAP center that thinks of kids in terms of “tiers”- although if there was one, we certainly would not be friends with them.

No one says it out loud but everyone certainly thinks it. Except you of course, on your very high horse.

I don't know if we all look down on those kids the way you seem to. I know a lot of kids through coaching and they're not all academically inclined but they are all fine young boys and I deliberately expose my son to them in the hopes he makes friends with them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its about making sure your child isnt in class with chair throwers.

If you think there aren’t any kids throwing chairs in an AAP class, I have some swampland to sell you in Arizona at a great price.

I've had three kids go through AAP. Zero chairs thrown.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better peer group. That's the big deal. That's the only deal.

I'm not even 100% sure that's true. At our center, the aap kids got cell phones younger. Definitely glad we didn't start the peer pressure on that stuff so young.
My Gen Ed kid wanted to be there, and recommends it for younger sibling....and it comes down to that the Gen Ed teachers have too many levels/groups in a classroom so the kids who are ahead just spend most of their time without much to do.

This. The queen-bee mean girl types are usually bright with strong social skills and involved parents. Those kids are also getting into AAP. My DD was mocked in 2nd grade for the clothing brands she was wearing by girls who left for the AAP center the following year.

I agree that the gen ed teachers will ignore the kids who are advanced. If an advanced gen ed kid is self motivated and has reasonably high executive function, the lack of teacher attention won't matter that much. My DD spent tons of free time reading through the school library and working independently on various projects. One of the sad ironies about AAP admissions is that the kids who are above grade level but with lower GBRS/HOPE scores are the ones who likely need the structure, expectations, and prodding from AAP the most. The kids who have the high teacher ratings and thus are the most likely to be admitted into AAP are going to bloom wherever they're planted.

Unfortunately that is true too, but in the long run isn't that better than chair throwers and kids with Derek Zoolander level reading skills? I say pick your poison.

I don't know where you live, but these kids do not exist at our FCPS elementary school.

lol. We have elementary schools where 1 in 4 can’t even speak English. And others where there are entire classes dddicated for mainstreaming and get an extra aid.

Yes well, you chose to live where you live.

And AAP centers are great.

Not so great when your base school is a center. The segregation is weird and causes weird issues. Although I think some of the families are more humbled now in middle school....

You choose to live where you live.

Unfortunately when we moved here our base wasn't a center yet....so it's not what we chose but it's what we got stuck with

The ESL population that has tripled over the last decade.

Again, you could always move and still can.

AAP centers works for me.

A lot of aap kids struggle, and end up in classes in MS with Gen Ed kids. A lot of aap parents were the ones asking the most questions about test retakes in honor math at back to school night. My lowly Gen Ed kid has no reason to need to request a retake yet. So stay on your high horse, but in the end the cream always rises.

For us, it’s about getting the best education for our kids.

I’m sorry you are feeling this way and I hope you find happiness in what you say above. Seems like both our families will be just fine.

It's not the best education for the kids that are struggling in aap and don't really belong. That environment can have lasting damage.

Everyone else will be ok.

OK? This is so weird to single out kids struggling in AAP like it's some pervasive issue. Yeah, sure you can take any group of kids and there's going to be bottom performers and top performers like a bell curve. This is normal. Maybe stop focusing on other peoples kids and just focus on your own perfect kids so you stop losing sleep over the kids struggling in AAP? It's really not up to you to decide if those kids belong in AAP or not, it was up to the committee and the committee has already made their decisions.

Anonymous wrote:

flexible, ability-based grouping within the classroom

^ This
I'm hardly kidding here ~ I think AAP is evil

You think one chair thrower is a resource problem, wait until you ask a teacher to run classes for multiple tracks in the same classroom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To address OPs point, I'd say that it just makes home life easier. There are sooo many little problems that are lessened, or just disappear once you segregate out the majority of troublemakers from the class. The teachers are on top of their curriculum, have more time for individual engagement with more children instead of the ones falling behind, and my child isn't being used as an indirect tutor to help the class progress. My needs for home enrichment actually decreased as DC appears to be staying engaged in class and progressing, which wasn't happening in K-2nd. Maybe it's my child's increased maturity (I doubt it), but there are less distractions and social implications to be worried about that makes for less anxiety and fights at home.

I'd say it's 100% not about the stated "advanced" nature, and the benefits are more intrinsic based on the peer group differences. I recognize it's elitist, but it's working for us.

+100 the peer group is miles above the gen ed peer group. I had one kid who got into AAP and one who didn’t. The one who didn’t unfortunately was influenced by the lack of academic rigor from gen Ed over the years - doesn’t want to/isn’t used to working hard, doesn’t know how to study for tests, doesn’t seem to care as much about school. Cares more about being popular. We notice that more of the gen Ed girls are all about clothes, make up and nails by 6th grade whereas the AAP girls are not.

AAP 6th grade teacher here. My AAP girls are ALL about brand names!!

Next thing you'll tell us is how much you are into brands yourself.

Kids are kids, some are into brands and some are into sports and some are into books and some are into math, that incudes AAP kids. There are AAP kids who are problems with regulation and there are well behaved kids in AAP. There are kids who are brand obsessed and kids who could careless in AAP. Too many people on this board want to portray AAP as this bastion of amazingly well behaved kids who are all young academics learning from each other when it is a classroom filled with a small number of gifted kids, a lot of advanced kids, and some kids who work really hard. It is probably more parental involvement that leads to kids being ahead and reasonably well behaved then anything else.

The AAP descriptions match the language immersion descriptions and there is not a selection committee for language immersion. You end up with fewer kids with serious, or even moderate, learning issues. Fewer kids with behavior issues. Mainly you end up with a classroom full of kids whose parents are involved and actively seleccting programs that they think will challenge their kid.

This. Not all of the AAP kids are super studious. In my career, I have had studious, athletes, musicians, popular kids, etc. They are kids like everyone else. They say the same lingo and watch the same stupid YouTube videos.

The point is that AAP does not have the bottom tier kids who are disrupting class with chair throwing, or taking up all the teacher's time because they can't do math from two grade levels ago. Even if there are a lot of average kids who don't exactly "deserve" to be there, not having that bottom tier makes the learning environment so much better. That's a big reason why people want AAP. It's also true in opt-in dual language programs, you're not going to have parents of bottom tier kids signing up for that either because it's too demanding for the kids at the bottom.

“Bottom tier kids”. I hope you are a troll. I do not know one parent in my child’s AAP center that thinks of kids in terms of “tiers”- although if there was one, we certainly would not be friends with them.

No one says it out loud but everyone certainly thinks it. Except you of course, on your very high horse.

No. Nobody thinks that. But you keep telling yourself that

Frankly, more taking would alleviate some of this but tracking is very inconsistent with the equity centered philosophy that is emphasized in education grad schools these days.

How would tracking alleviate people who refer to 8 year olds as “lower tier kids”? Not really sure how that would help with the condescending, possibly racist, elitists of the world.

But if you mean tracking would alleviate the need for AAP? Sure, I could get down with that. Although I would prefer flexible, ability-based grouping within the classrooms like many other countries with outstanding schools do. But this is America, where we are apparently exceptionally bad at doing anything exceptionally good, so I’m not holding my breath.

Really? What countries do that?
I didn't think there are many of any that do this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better peer group. That's the big deal. That's the only deal.

I'm not even 100% sure that's true. At our center, the aap kids got cell phones younger. Definitely glad we didn't start the peer pressure on that stuff so young.
My Gen Ed kid wanted to be there, and recommends it for younger sibling....and it comes down to that the Gen Ed teachers have too many levels/groups in a classroom so the kids who are ahead just spend most of their time without much to do.

This. The queen-bee mean girl types are usually bright with strong social skills and involved parents. Those kids are also getting into AAP. My DD was mocked in 2nd grade for the clothing brands she was wearing by girls who left for the AAP center the following year.

I agree that the gen ed teachers will ignore the kids who are advanced. If an advanced gen ed kid is self motivated and has reasonably high executive function, the lack of teacher attention won't matter that much. My DD spent tons of free time reading through the school library and working independently on various projects. One of the sad ironies about AAP admissions is that the kids who are above grade level but with lower GBRS/HOPE scores are the ones who likely need the structure, expectations, and prodding from AAP the most. The kids who have the high teacher ratings and thus are the most likely to be admitted into AAP are going to bloom wherever they're planted.

Unfortunately that is true too, but in the long run isn't that better than chair throwers and kids with Derek Zoolander level reading skills? I say pick your poison.

I don't know where you live, but these kids do not exist at our FCPS elementary school.

lol. We have elementary schools where 1 in 4 can’t even speak English. And others where there are entire classes dddicated for mainstreaming and get an extra aid.

Yes well, you chose to live where you live.

And AAP centers are great.

Not so great when your base school is a center. The segregation is weird and causes weird issues. Although I think some of the families are more humbled now in middle school....

You choose to live where you live.

Unfortunately when we moved here our base wasn't a center yet....so it's not what we chose but it's what we got stuck with

The ESL population that has tripled over the last decade.

Again, you could always move and still can.

AAP centers works for me.

A lot of aap kids struggle, and end up in classes in MS with Gen Ed kids. A lot of aap parents were the ones asking the most questions about test retakes in honor math at back to school night. My lowly Gen Ed kid has no reason to need to request a retake yet. So stay on your high horse, but in the end the cream always rises.

For us, it’s about getting the best education for our kids.

I’m sorry you are feeling this way and I hope you find happiness in what you say above. Seems like both our families will be just fine.

It's not the best education for the kids that are struggling in aap and don't really belong. That environment can have lasting damage.

Everyone else will be ok.

And those parents should choose what’s appropriate for their kids. We are very happy with our AAP center experience.

The problem is there is no reset for kids chosen in 2nd grade...by 5th or 6th or 7th or 8th things might have changed. They're stuck there thinking they should be smart but struggling. What looks like the best choice now might look different next year....There are opportunities to opt in, but none to opt out.

Sure. That’s not our problem, but i wouldn’t care if my kids had to test to stay in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better peer group. That's the big deal. That's the only deal.

I'm not even 100% sure that's true. At our center, the aap kids got cell phones younger. Definitely glad we didn't start the peer pressure on that stuff so young.
My Gen Ed kid wanted to be there, and recommends it for younger sibling....and it comes down to that the Gen Ed teachers have too many levels/groups in a classroom so the kids who are ahead just spend most of their time without much to do.

This. The queen-bee mean girl types are usually bright with strong social skills and involved parents. Those kids are also getting into AAP. My DD was mocked in 2nd grade for the clothing brands she was wearing by girls who left for the AAP center the following year.

I agree that the gen ed teachers will ignore the kids who are advanced. If an advanced gen ed kid is self motivated and has reasonably high executive function, the lack of teacher attention won't matter that much. My DD spent tons of free time reading through the school library and working independently on various projects. One of the sad ironies about AAP admissions is that the kids who are above grade level but with lower GBRS/HOPE scores are the ones who likely need the structure, expectations, and prodding from AAP the most. The kids who have the high teacher ratings and thus are the most likely to be admitted into AAP are going to bloom wherever they're planted.

Unfortunately that is true too, but in the long run isn't that better than chair throwers and kids with Derek Zoolander level reading skills? I say pick your poison.

I don't know where you live, but these kids do not exist at our FCPS elementary school.

lol. We have elementary schools where 1 in 4 can’t even speak English. And others where there are entire classes dddicated for mainstreaming and get an extra aid.

Yes well, you chose to live where you live.

And AAP centers are great.

Not so great when your base school is a center. The segregation is weird and causes weird issues. Although I think some of the families are more humbled now in middle school....

You choose to live where you live.

Unfortunately when we moved here our base wasn't a center yet....so it's not what we chose but it's what we got stuck with

The ESL population that has tripled over the last decade.

Again, you could always move and still can.

AAP centers works for me.

A lot of aap kids struggle, and end up in classes in MS with Gen Ed kids. A lot of aap parents were the ones asking the most questions about test retakes in honor math at back to school night. My lowly Gen Ed kid has no reason to need to request a retake yet. So stay on your high horse, but in the end the cream always rises.

For us, it’s about getting the best education for our kids.

I’m sorry you are feeling this way and I hope you find happiness in what you say above. Seems like both our families will be just fine.

It's not the best education for the kids that are struggling in aap and don't really belong. That environment can have lasting damage.

Everyone else will be ok.

And those parents should choose what’s appropriate for their kids. We are very happy with our AAP center experience.

The problem is there is no reset for kids chosen in 2nd grade...by 5th or 6th or 7th or 8th things might have changed. They're stuck there thinking they should be smart but struggling. What looks like the best choice now might look different next year....There are opportunities to opt in, but none to opt out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better peer group. That's the big deal. That's the only deal.

I'm not even 100% sure that's true. At our center, the aap kids got cell phones younger. Definitely glad we didn't start the peer pressure on that stuff so young.
My Gen Ed kid wanted to be there, and recommends it for younger sibling....and it comes down to that the Gen Ed teachers have too many levels/groups in a classroom so the kids who are ahead just spend most of their time without much to do.

This. The queen-bee mean girl types are usually bright with strong social skills and involved parents. Those kids are also getting into AAP. My DD was mocked in 2nd grade for the clothing brands she was wearing by girls who left for the AAP center the following year.

I agree that the gen ed teachers will ignore the kids who are advanced. If an advanced gen ed kid is self motivated and has reasonably high executive function, the lack of teacher attention won't matter that much. My DD spent tons of free time reading through the school library and working independently on various projects. One of the sad ironies about AAP admissions is that the kids who are above grade level but with lower GBRS/HOPE scores are the ones who likely need the structure, expectations, and prodding from AAP the most. The kids who have the high teacher ratings and thus are the most likely to be admitted into AAP are going to bloom wherever they're planted.

Unfortunately that is true too, but in the long run isn't that better than chair throwers and kids with Derek Zoolander level reading skills? I say pick your poison.

I don't know where you live, but these kids do not exist at our FCPS elementary school.

lol. We have elementary schools where 1 in 4 can’t even speak English. And others where there are entire classes dddicated for mainstreaming and get an extra aid.

Yes well, you chose to live where you live.

And AAP centers are great.

Not so great when your base school is a center. The segregation is weird and causes weird issues. Although I think some of the families are more humbled now in middle school....

You choose to live where you live.

Unfortunately when we moved here our base wasn't a center yet....so it's not what we chose but it's what we got stuck with

The ESL population that has tripled over the last decade.

Again, you could always move and still can.

AAP centers works for me.

A lot of aap kids struggle, and end up in classes in MS with Gen Ed kids. A lot of aap parents were the ones asking the most questions about test retakes in honor math at back to school night. My lowly Gen Ed kid has no reason to need to request a retake yet. So stay on your high horse, but in the end the cream always rises.

For us, it’s about getting the best education for our kids.

I’m sorry you are feeling this way and I hope you find happiness in what you say above. Seems like both our families will be just fine.

It's not the best education for the kids that are struggling in aap and don't really belong. That environment can have lasting damage.

Everyone else will be ok.

And those parents should choose what’s appropriate for their kids. We are very happy with our AAP center experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better peer group. That's the big deal. That's the only deal.

I'm not even 100% sure that's true. At our center, the aap kids got cell phones younger. Definitely glad we didn't start the peer pressure on that stuff so young.
My Gen Ed kid wanted to be there, and recommends it for younger sibling....and it comes down to that the Gen Ed teachers have too many levels/groups in a classroom so the kids who are ahead just spend most of their time without much to do.

This. The queen-bee mean girl types are usually bright with strong social skills and involved parents. Those kids are also getting into AAP. My DD was mocked in 2nd grade for the clothing brands she was wearing by girls who left for the AAP center the following year.

I agree that the gen ed teachers will ignore the kids who are advanced. If an advanced gen ed kid is self motivated and has reasonably high executive function, the lack of teacher attention won't matter that much. My DD spent tons of free time reading through the school library and working independently on various projects. One of the sad ironies about AAP admissions is that the kids who are above grade level but with lower GBRS/HOPE scores are the ones who likely need the structure, expectations, and prodding from AAP the most. The kids who have the high teacher ratings and thus are the most likely to be admitted into AAP are going to bloom wherever they're planted.

Unfortunately that is true too, but in the long run isn't that better than chair throwers and kids with Derek Zoolander level reading skills? I say pick your poison.

I don't know where you live, but these kids do not exist at our FCPS elementary school.

lol. We have elementary schools where 1 in 4 can’t even speak English. And others where there are entire classes dddicated for mainstreaming and get an extra aid.

Yes well, you chose to live where you live.

And AAP centers are great.

Not so great when your base school is a center. The segregation is weird and causes weird issues. Although I think some of the families are more humbled now in middle school....

You choose to live where you live.

Unfortunately when we moved here our base wasn't a center yet....so it's not what we chose but it's what we got stuck with

The ESL population that has tripled over the last decade.

Again, you could always move and still can.

AAP centers works for me.

A lot of aap kids struggle, and end up in classes in MS with Gen Ed kids. A lot of aap parents were the ones asking the most questions about test retakes in honor math at back to school night. My lowly Gen Ed kid has no reason to need to request a retake yet. So stay on your high horse, but in the end the cream always rises.

For us, it’s about getting the best education for our kids.

I’m sorry you are feeling this way and I hope you find happiness in what you say above. Seems like both our families will be just fine.

It's not the best education for the kids that are struggling in aap and don't really belong. That environment can have lasting damage.

Everyone else will be ok.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better peer group. That's the big deal. That's the only deal.

I'm not even 100% sure that's true. At our center, the aap kids got cell phones younger. Definitely glad we didn't start the peer pressure on that stuff so young.
My Gen Ed kid wanted to be there, and recommends it for younger sibling....and it comes down to that the Gen Ed teachers have too many levels/groups in a classroom so the kids who are ahead just spend most of their time without much to do.

This. The queen-bee mean girl types are usually bright with strong social skills and involved parents. Those kids are also getting into AAP. My DD was mocked in 2nd grade for the clothing brands she was wearing by girls who left for the AAP center the following year.

I agree that the gen ed teachers will ignore the kids who are advanced. If an advanced gen ed kid is self motivated and has reasonably high executive function, the lack of teacher attention won't matter that much. My DD spent tons of free time reading through the school library and working independently on various projects. One of the sad ironies about AAP admissions is that the kids who are above grade level but with lower GBRS/HOPE scores are the ones who likely need the structure, expectations, and prodding from AAP the most. The kids who have the high teacher ratings and thus are the most likely to be admitted into AAP are going to bloom wherever they're planted.

Unfortunately that is true too, but in the long run isn't that better than chair throwers and kids with Derek Zoolander level reading skills? I say pick your poison.

I don't know where you live, but these kids do not exist at our FCPS elementary school.

lol. We have elementary schools where 1 in 4 can’t even speak English. And others where there are entire classes dddicated for mainstreaming and get an extra aid.

Yes well, you chose to live where you live.

And AAP centers are great.

Not so great when your base school is a center. The segregation is weird and causes weird issues. Although I think some of the families are more humbled now in middle school....

You choose to live where you live.

Unfortunately when we moved here our base wasn't a center yet....so it's not what we chose but it's what we got stuck with

The ESL population that has tripled over the last decade.

Again, you could always move and still can.

AAP centers works for me.

A lot of aap kids struggle, and end up in classes in MS with Gen Ed kids. A lot of aap parents were the ones asking the most questions about test retakes in honor math at back to school night. My lowly Gen Ed kid has no reason to need to request a retake yet. So stay on your high horse, but in the end the cream always rises.

For us, it’s about getting the best education for our kids.

I’m sorry you are feeling this way and I hope you find happiness in what you say above. Seems like both our families will be just fine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better peer group. That's the big deal. That's the only deal.

I'm not even 100% sure that's true. At our center, the aap kids got cell phones younger. Definitely glad we didn't start the peer pressure on that stuff so young.
My Gen Ed kid wanted to be there, and recommends it for younger sibling....and it comes down to that the Gen Ed teachers have too many levels/groups in a classroom so the kids who are ahead just spend most of their time without much to do.

This. The queen-bee mean girl types are usually bright with strong social skills and involved parents. Those kids are also getting into AAP. My DD was mocked in 2nd grade for the clothing brands she was wearing by girls who left for the AAP center the following year.

I agree that the gen ed teachers will ignore the kids who are advanced. If an advanced gen ed kid is self motivated and has reasonably high executive function, the lack of teacher attention won't matter that much. My DD spent tons of free time reading through the school library and working independently on various projects. One of the sad ironies about AAP admissions is that the kids who are above grade level but with lower GBRS/HOPE scores are the ones who likely need the structure, expectations, and prodding from AAP the most. The kids who have the high teacher ratings and thus are the most likely to be admitted into AAP are going to bloom wherever they're planted.

Unfortunately that is true too, but in the long run isn't that better than chair throwers and kids with Derek Zoolander level reading skills? I say pick your poison.

I don't know where you live, but these kids do not exist at our FCPS elementary school.

lol. We have elementary schools where 1 in 4 can’t even speak English. And others where there are entire classes dddicated for mainstreaming and get an extra aid.

Yes well, you chose to live where you live.

And AAP centers are great.

Not so great when your base school is a center. The segregation is weird and causes weird issues. Although I think some of the families are more humbled now in middle school....

You choose to live where you live.

Unfortunately when we moved here our base wasn't a center yet....so it's not what we chose but it's what we got stuck with

The ESL population that has tripled over the last decade.

Again, you could always move and still can.

AAP centers works for me.

A lot of aap kids struggle, and end up in classes in MS with Gen Ed kids. A lot of aap parents were the ones asking the most questions about test retakes in honor math at back to school night. My lowly Gen Ed kid has no reason to need to request a retake yet. So stay on your high horse, but in the end the cream always rises.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better peer group. That's the big deal. That's the only deal.

I'm not even 100% sure that's true. At our center, the aap kids got cell phones younger. Definitely glad we didn't start the peer pressure on that stuff so young.
My Gen Ed kid wanted to be there, and recommends it for younger sibling....and it comes down to that the Gen Ed teachers have too many levels/groups in a classroom so the kids who are ahead just spend most of their time without much to do.

This. The queen-bee mean girl types are usually bright with strong social skills and involved parents. Those kids are also getting into AAP. My DD was mocked in 2nd grade for the clothing brands she was wearing by girls who left for the AAP center the following year.

I agree that the gen ed teachers will ignore the kids who are advanced. If an advanced gen ed kid is self motivated and has reasonably high executive function, the lack of teacher attention won't matter that much. My DD spent tons of free time reading through the school library and working independently on various projects. One of the sad ironies about AAP admissions is that the kids who are above grade level but with lower GBRS/HOPE scores are the ones who likely need the structure, expectations, and prodding from AAP the most. The kids who have the high teacher ratings and thus are the most likely to be admitted into AAP are going to bloom wherever they're planted.

Unfortunately that is true too, but in the long run isn't that better than chair throwers and kids with Derek Zoolander level reading skills? I say pick your poison.

I don't know where you live, but these kids do not exist at our FCPS elementary school.

lol. We have elementary schools where 1 in 4 can’t even speak English. And others where there are entire classes dddicated for mainstreaming and get an extra aid.

Yes well, you chose to live where you live.

And AAP centers are great.

Not so great when your base school is a center. The segregation is weird and causes weird issues. Although I think some of the families are more humbled now in middle school....

You choose to live where you live.

Unfortunately when we moved here our base wasn't a center yet....so it's not what we chose but it's what we got stuck with

The ESL population that has tripled over the last decade.

Again, you could always move and still can.

AAP centers works for me.

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Anonymous wrote:I'll bite. We are at a fairly well regarded center elementary school. Even then, I estimate about 1/4 of gen ed cant read or do math (by that I mean failed the SOL and you have to miss a lot to fail...). My kid would be completely ignored in those classrooms. There's no honors in elementary. I agree there is less need for the program in middle school due since honors classes are available then.

How would you even know this?

Simple. Last year there were 2 gen ed classes and 2 aap classes in my child's grade. 12.xx% of the grade failed the SOL per recently released statistics. Made the assumption few to none of aap failed. 12% of 50% is 24%, or 1/4.

LOL, this is a poor assumption to make. You would be surprised at how many children in AAP are getting outside tutoring in math because they fail or are close to failing their SOLs once they start doing a grade up. Almost all of them in our school (yes, moms talk).

3rd grade advanced math was not accelerated last year.

Yes, sweetie, that's why I said "once they start doing a grade up". It's shocking your child is in AAP when you can't read.

It's not a grade up in 4th this year either. Try to keep up.

My kid goes to a center school. She has been in advance math since 4th grade and now is 6th. She joins the AAP class for math. 4th grade they end up doing 4th & 5th by the end of the year. 5th grade they do 6th grade math & 6th grade SOL. They never take a 5th grade SOL. In 6th she is taking 7th grade and will take 7th grade SOL.

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Anonymous wrote:To address OPs point, I'd say that it just makes home life easier. There are sooo many little problems that are lessened, or just disappear once you segregate out the majority of troublemakers from the class. The teachers are on top of their curriculum, have more time for individual engagement with more children instead of the ones falling behind, and my child isn't being used as an indirect tutor to help the class progress. My needs for home enrichment actually decreased as DC appears to be staying engaged in class and progressing, which wasn't happening in K-2nd. Maybe it's my child's increased maturity (I doubt it), but there are less distractions and social implications to be worried about that makes for less anxiety and fights at home.

I'd say it's 100% not about the stated "advanced" nature, and the benefits are more intrinsic based on the peer group differences. I recognize it's elitist, but it's working for us.

+100 the peer group is miles above the gen ed peer group. I had one kid who got into AAP and one who didn’t. The one who didn’t unfortunately was influenced by the lack of academic rigor from gen Ed over the years - doesn’t want to/isn’t used to working hard, doesn’t know how to study for tests, doesn’t seem to care as much about school. Cares more about being popular. We notice that more of the gen Ed girls are all about clothes, make up and nails by 6th grade whereas the AAP girls are not.

AAP 6th grade teacher here. My AAP girls are ALL about brand names!!

Next thing you'll tell us is how much you are into brands yourself.

Kids are kids, some are into brands and some are into sports and some are into books and some are into math, that incudes AAP kids. There are AAP kids who are problems with regulation and there are well behaved kids in AAP. There are kids who are brand obsessed and kids who could careless in AAP. Too many people on this board want to portray AAP as this bastion of amazingly well behaved kids who are all young academics learning from each other when it is a classroom filled with a small number of gifted kids, a lot of advanced kids, and some kids who work really hard. It is probably more parental involvement that leads to kids being ahead and reasonably well behaved then anything else.

The AAP descriptions match the language immersion descriptions and there is not a selection committee for language immersion. You end up with fewer kids with serious, or even moderate, learning issues. Fewer kids with behavior issues. Mainly you end up with a classroom full of kids whose parents are involved and actively seleccting programs that they think will challenge their kid.

This. Not all of the AAP kids are super studious. In my career, I have had studious, athletes, musicians, popular kids, etc. They are kids like everyone else. They say the same lingo and watch the same stupid YouTube videos.

The point is that AAP does not have the bottom tier kids who are disrupting class with chair throwing, or taking up all the teacher's time because they can't do math from two grade levels ago. Even if there are a lot of average kids who don't exactly "deserve" to be there, not having that bottom tier makes the learning environment so much better. That's a big reason why people want AAP. It's also true in opt-in dual language programs, you're not going to have parents of bottom tier kids signing up for that either because it's too demanding for the kids at the bottom.

“Bottom tier kids”. I hope you are a troll. I do not know one parent in my child’s AAP center that thinks of kids in terms of “tiers”- although if there was one, we certainly would not be friends with them.

No one says it out loud but everyone certainly thinks it. Except you of course, on your very high horse.

No. Nobody thinks that. But you keep telling yourself that

Frankly, more taking would alleviate some of this but tracking is very inconsistent with the equity centered philosophy that is emphasized in education grad schools these days.

How would tracking alleviate people who refer to 8 year olds as “lower tier kids”? Not really sure how that would help with the condescending, possibly racist, elitists of the world.

But if you mean tracking would alleviate the need for AAP? Sure, I could get down with that. Although I would prefer flexible, ability-based grouping within the classrooms like many other countries with outstanding schools do. But this is America, where we are apparently exceptionally bad at doing anything exceptionally good, so I’m not holding my breath.

Tracking would help because you can create classes that allow the teacher to focus on a smaller band of abilities. You can have a math, LA, science, and history/social studies teacher. Kids can move between the classes based on their ability levels so that teachers can help them learn and grow. I know my kids ES did this in 6th grade, I think it can easily be done for younger grades, especially if you create pods where the 4 main classes are close to each other. The movement between the classes is good for kids who need some movement, a change of environment is good for everyone.

You have a class for kids that are 2-3 grade levels behind. This is a smaller class, and the reading and math specialists push in frequently. Kids are able to get more individualized attention. Hopefully the environment makes it easier for the kids to learn and catch up so they can move to a different class.

You have a class for kids just below grade level and kids struggling to stay on grade level. Again, they get push ins from the reading and math specialists. Teachers can meet the kids where they are and help them shore up their skills so that they can move into the next class.

You have a grade level class. This class is going to be larger than the first two because the kids need less support and are able to work at the expected level. Teachers can present the material, make sure kids are solid on it, and provide instruction for kids that might be getting ahead. If kids start to get further ahead, they might be ready to move into the next class.

You have an advanced class for the kids who understand the concepts the first time through. The kids can move through the material more quickly and you can dive deeper with them and accelerate the learning curve. This way the kids are challenged. This class is another one that can be large, the kids are ahead, they need less guidance and help.

I am a smart person with learning disabilities. It sucked being in a class with kids who finished fast and were doing other things when I was struggling to understand the assignment. It did not positively motivate me, it made me feel stupid and less able. Maybe if I wasn't as far behind in math I would have been motivated to practice more to catch up with the kids who were ahead, but the numbers moved, and I struggled to get the correct answers. I was frustrated and down on myself. I did far better when I was in an environment where kids were moving at my pace or a bit faster. I don't think the kids who are grade levels behind are benefiting from the kids who are ahead and done with assignments really quickly. I think they are frustrated and some of that poor behavior is because they are kids and are upset and they act out because they don't know how to deal with their frustration.