The issue is that, for young students, being very, very good at Math 6/7 level content isn't the same as being ready for the track of algebra and beyond. The difference is whether it truly comes easy to the student, or are they working very hard and unintuitively in a way that isn't going to be sustainable over the next 5 years.

I had 2 kids who qualified for algebra in 6th. One of them zipped through everything easily. The other, despite having the same scores on ES/pre-algebra testing in 5th grade, struggled mightily and wisely held off algebra until 7th.

There are certain developmental milestones for levels of abstraction, that have biological component. They happen at different ages for different kids, but they do happen on their own timeline. When a kid is ready to learn, their brain unlocks and they can learn quickly. When they aren't, they can't even learn slowly. It's not just about prior preparation.

The way to test algebra readiness is to teach a slice of algebra, and see if the kid really understands it.


(Similar for learning reading in younger kids.)

Is the 6th grade Algebra class the same as the high school class Algebra 1 HN and will it be on their transcript? Or is this just elementary school algebra, and kids will still need to take Algebra 1 HN in 7th?

Somehow I doubt after this class many kids will opt to take Geometry HN in 7th.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

#1. Totally agree about TJ - not sure what the advantages actually are, and the downsides are very obvious.
#2. If a kid really loves math, then it's a great hobby and there's no reason to hold the child back. You wouldn't say that if a kid was doing extremely well in violin, we should put them in a math class instead of having them study the Brahms Concerto in order to balance them out. That said, I'd bet that the number of kids who really love math enough to pursue it as a hobby is pretty small. The schools should find a way to accommodate the relatively small number of kids who are really ready to move forward in the curriculum without setting up a large-scale Algebra in Sixth Grade program.

Would child have been ready for Algebra in 6th without the math enrichment outside of school? Ask yourself that. And why is simply taking the normal math offered at school considered “holding a child back.” Why must there be a push to accelerate?

Why are you so angry about the sequence some kids are on?

Are you angry about kids who take private violin lessons and get 1st chair in the orchestra?
Travel baseball players who become starting pitchers in high school?
Kids who take acting classes and get lead roles freshman year?

Or is it only math enrichment that bothers you?

Not angry at all. Not sure how you read anger from my post. I do feel like you are trying to go on and on about it though - we get it! Your kid is exceptionally advanced in math and needs algebra in 6th! Please report back how geometry and algebra 2 in middle school go.

There are something like 300 students taking Algebra 2 in 8th grade, it tends to go well. For the most part, those are kids who took Geometry in the summer. I am sure that there are some kids who struggle and don't do well in Algebra 2 but I would guess that those kids are in the minority.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

#1. Totally agree about TJ - not sure what the advantages actually are, and the downsides are very obvious.
#2. If a kid really loves math, then it's a great hobby and there's no reason to hold the child back. You wouldn't say that if a kid was doing extremely well in violin, we should put them in a math class instead of having them study the Brahms Concerto in order to balance them out. That said, I'd bet that the number of kids who really love math enough to pursue it as a hobby is pretty small. The schools should find a way to accommodate the relatively small number of kids who are really ready to move forward in the curriculum without setting up a large-scale Algebra in Sixth Grade program.

Would child have been ready for Algebra in 6th without the math enrichment outside of school? Ask yourself that. And why is simply taking the normal math offered at school considered “holding a child back.” Why must there be a push to accelerate?

Why are you so angry about the sequence some kids are on?

Are you angry about kids who take private violin lessons and get 1st chair in the orchestra?
Travel baseball players who become starting pitchers in high school?
Kids who take acting classes and get lead roles freshman year?

Or is it only math enrichment that bothers you?

Not angry at all. Not sure how you read anger from my post. I do feel like you are trying to go on and on about it though - we get it! Your kid is exceptionally advanced in math and needs algebra in 6th! Please report back how geometry and algebra 2 in middle school go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

#1. Totally agree about TJ - not sure what the advantages actually are, and the downsides are very obvious.
#2. If a kid really loves math, then it's a great hobby and there's no reason to hold the child back. You wouldn't say that if a kid was doing extremely well in violin, we should put them in a math class instead of having them study the Brahms Concerto in order to balance them out. That said, I'd bet that the number of kids who really love math enough to pursue it as a hobby is pretty small. The schools should find a way to accommodate the relatively small number of kids who are really ready to move forward in the curriculum without setting up a large-scale Algebra in Sixth Grade program.

Would child have been ready for Algebra in 6th without the math enrichment outside of school? Ask yourself that. And why is simply taking the normal math offered at school considered “holding a child back.” Why must there be a push to accelerate?

Many of the parents who discuss the normal math path as holding kids back are doing so because they are aware that math is taught differently internationally.

And yes, there are kids who would be ready for A1H in 6th grade without outside enrichment. There are kids who grasp math concepts easily and are able to apply them. In many cases, parents will look for outside enrichment to encourage the child's natural ability. Some kids might not be interested in outside enrichment and not take it, and that is fine.

There is a perception that every kid doing math competitions and involved in classes like AoPS are there because of pushy parents, I thought that until I had a kid who loves math and was excited when we offered math enrichment as an option. But there are kids who love math and want to take those classes. And there are kids strong in math who don't want to take those classes but are capable of A1H in 6th grade. We know kids who choose M7H over A1H in 7th grade because the kid just isn't into math that much but they qualified for A1H, those same kids might have made the cut off for 6th grade A1H if the class existed then. And I would guess that their parents would choose regular advanced math/6th grade AAP math over A1H.

Most people are fine with the kid who is great on the rec soccer team trying out for the travel team. The kid is strong at soccer, it is natural that they would try for a more competitive team. Why is it different saying that a kid who is strong in math should be happy to do math enrichment outside of school?

There are parents who push their kids into academic enrichment because the parents are focused only on that. There are parents who push their kids into travel sports when the kid doesn't want to be there. There are parents who force music lessons when the kid doesn't want to be there. But for some reason it is the math enrichment that seems to strike the biggest chord for people on this site. I don't get it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

#1. Totally agree about TJ - not sure what the advantages actually are, and the downsides are very obvious.
#2. If a kid really loves math, then it's a great hobby and there's no reason to hold the child back. You wouldn't say that if a kid was doing extremely well in violin, we should put them in a math class instead of having them study the Brahms Concerto in order to balance them out. That said, I'd bet that the number of kids who really love math enough to pursue it as a hobby is pretty small. The schools should find a way to accommodate the relatively small number of kids who are really ready to move forward in the curriculum without setting up a large-scale Algebra in Sixth Grade program.

Would child have been ready for Algebra in 6th without the math enrichment outside of school? Ask yourself that. And why is simply taking the normal math offered at school considered “holding a child back.” Why must there be a push to accelerate?

Yes. My child has never done math enrichment and has a 98% after 2 quizzes and 2 tests in 6th grade algebra 1.

As for why? Because my child was miserable in school from K-5 math. We had a 504 for school refusal because it was so unbelievably slow for them that they called it "torture" (a bit melodramatic, but they truly were miserable). It's not a push for the right kid, it's meeting them where they are.

Would you make a kid who was fluent in Spanish start in spanish 1, just because that's the "normal" sequence for a 7th grader? No, it's why FCPS offers "Spanish for fluent speakers". Algebra 1 in 6th grade is "math for fluent mathematicians".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

#1. Totally agree about TJ - not sure what the advantages actually are, and the downsides are very obvious.
#2. If a kid really loves math, then it's a great hobby and there's no reason to hold the child back. You wouldn't say that if a kid was doing extremely well in violin, we should put them in a math class instead of having them study the Brahms Concerto in order to balance them out. That said, I'd bet that the number of kids who really love math enough to pursue it as a hobby is pretty small. The schools should find a way to accommodate the relatively small number of kids who are really ready to move forward in the curriculum without setting up a large-scale Algebra in Sixth Grade program.

Would child have been ready for Algebra in 6th without the math enrichment outside of school? Ask yourself that. And why is simply taking the normal math offered at school considered “holding a child back.” Why must there be a push to accelerate?

Why are you so angry about the sequence some kids are on?

Are you angry about kids who take private violin lessons and get 1st chair in the orchestra?
Travel baseball players who become starting pitchers in high school?
Kids who take acting classes and get lead roles freshman year?

Or is it only math enrichment that bothers you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

#1. Totally agree about TJ - not sure what the advantages actually are, and the downsides are very obvious.
#2. If a kid really loves math, then it's a great hobby and there's no reason to hold the child back. You wouldn't say that if a kid was doing extremely well in violin, we should put them in a math class instead of having them study the Brahms Concerto in order to balance them out. That said, I'd bet that the number of kids who really love math enough to pursue it as a hobby is pretty small. The schools should find a way to accommodate the relatively small number of kids who are really ready to move forward in the curriculum without setting up a large-scale Algebra in Sixth Grade program.

Would child have been ready for Algebra in 6th without the math enrichment outside of school? Ask yourself that. And why is simply taking the normal math offered at school considered “holding a child back.” Why must there be a push to accelerate?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

My kid does RSM, soccer, and Scouts. He chooses his activities, I like the balance that he has found.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

Do you also tell the parents of athletic kids to remove their children from baseball or gymnastics and instead enroll them in academic lessons? Most parents let their child's passions dictate the activities they sign up for.

My kid has zero interest in learning piano, so why would I spend money on it? The music lessons at school are enough to keep him learning and challenged in a way that holds his interest. The math is not (until this year) holding his interest, and he wanted more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

#1. Totally agree about TJ - not sure what the advantages actually are, and the downsides are very obvious.
#2. If a kid really loves math, then it's a great hobby and there's no reason to hold the child back. You wouldn't say that if a kid was doing extremely well in violin, we should put them in a math class instead of having them study the Brahms Concerto in order to balance them out. That said, I'd bet that the number of kids who really love math enough to pursue it as a hobby is pretty small. The schools should find a way to accommodate the relatively small number of kids who are really ready to move forward in the curriculum without setting up a large-scale Algebra in Sixth Grade program.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s absolutely bonkers to waste valuable resources on algebra in 6th grade when they can just take it in 7th.

I think the pilot is including far more students than it should but there have been and will continue to be kids who are ready for Algebra 1 in 6th grade, there should be a way of offering Algebra 1 to kids who are ready across the county, not just at the 20 or so schools that made it work. Does that mean that we need 700 kids in the pilot program? No. But if they set the standard based on SOL scores and iReady and there were 700 kids who meet the set threshold, then you let the parents decide if the kid is ready or not. You don't principal place kids into the class. I would argue that you need to have a threshold for returning a kid to 6th grade AAP math that parents cannot challenge.

What some people miss is that the kids in AoPS and RSM are taking those classes because math at school is slow and they are not challenged. Enrichment is a method for keeping a kid capable of more engaged. DS moved into RSM in 4th grade because the math at school was not engaging. He ended up in the 5th grade math class at RSM as a 4th grader because he was ready for that material. The Math competition class has been challenging and fun for him. Are there kids at RSM and AoPS whose parents place them there because they want to make sure that their kid is selected for classes like A1H as soon as possible? Sure, but it is not every kid. I would argue that it is actually not even the majority of kids. I doubt that the kids in the regular and middle tier of classes at RSM are taking A1H in 6th grade or even in 7th grade.

This is what parents like to say but we all know it’s gaming the system. These are the Tesla driving, TJ wannabes. They also want the math competitions bc that looks good for TJ. They don’t allow their kids to have a minute’s rest. At school all day and then onto math enrichment. You should see what they do in the summer. I know a family that has their kid get up at 7:30 am on weekend to start homework.

I don't know why parents are still so obsessed with TJ anyways. It does not give your DC an advantage anymore in college admissions. Look at the acceptance rate -- universities are only taking certain percentages from magnet schools. In the 90's TJ was a guarantee admission to VT or UVA and a strong chance at Ivy's, now not so much. It's admittance rate is barely above any other Fairfax County high school, but the amount of work, stress and heartache is unbelievable. Not worth it at all.

Because in certain cultures such things are the path to success, even if those same things don't apply to college admissions in the USA.

In China it's the gaokao, which also determines your major, but here you need more than that to get into a topnschool.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s absolutely bonkers to waste valuable resources on algebra in 6th grade when they can just take it in 7th.

I think the pilot is including far more students than it should but there have been and will continue to be kids who are ready for Algebra 1 in 6th grade, there should be a way of offering Algebra 1 to kids who are ready across the county, not just at the 20 or so schools that made it work. Does that mean that we need 700 kids in the pilot program? No. But if they set the standard based on SOL scores and iReady and there were 700 kids who meet the set threshold, then you let the parents decide if the kid is ready or not. You don't principal place kids into the class. I would argue that you need to have a threshold for returning a kid to 6th grade AAP math that parents cannot challenge.

What some people miss is that the kids in AoPS and RSM are taking those classes because math at school is slow and they are not challenged. Enrichment is a method for keeping a kid capable of more engaged. DS moved into RSM in 4th grade because the math at school was not engaging. He ended up in the 5th grade math class at RSM as a 4th grader because he was ready for that material. The Math competition class has been challenging and fun for him. Are there kids at RSM and AoPS whose parents place them there because they want to make sure that their kid is selected for classes like A1H as soon as possible? Sure, but it is not every kid. I would argue that it is actually not even the majority of kids. I doubt that the kids in the regular and middle tier of classes at RSM are taking A1H in 6th grade or even in 7th grade.

This is what parents like to say but we all know it’s gaming the system. These are the Tesla driving, TJ wannabes. They also want the math competitions bc that looks good for TJ. They don’t allow their kids to have a minute’s rest. At school all day and then onto math enrichment. You should see what they do in the summer. I know a family that has their kid get up at 7:30 am on weekend to start homework.

I don't know why parents are still so obsessed with TJ anyways. It does not give your DC an advantage anymore in college admissions. Look at the acceptance rate -- universities are only taking certain percentages from magnet schools. In the 90's TJ was a guarantee admission to VT or UVA and a strong chance at Ivy's, now not so much. It's admittance rate is barely above any other Fairfax County high school, but the amount of work, stress and heartache is unbelievable. Not worth it at all.

The classes offered at TJ are amazing and some kids really want to be with other kids who love math and science. They are less worried about what college they go to because the know that they are still going to go to a strong school because of the course load that they have and what they will offer. The TJ presentations are very clear that there will be kids who could attend a higher ranked college if they attend TJ but kids apply and go. I would guess most of them are comfortable that with hard work they will end up with a strong GPA and be able to attend a great school.

Mental health at TJ is a major problem. Not sure I agree with the “most of them are comfortable with hard work” rhetoric. A lot of the kids are stressed beyond belief for little benefit or advantage in the end.

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

It's no different than travel soccer or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)