Anonymous wrote:OP I'm noticing you pointing out logic flaws in your sibling's arguments, as if they're trying to have a rational conversation with you. They're not. Stop doing that! They are just yelling out any words they can use to attempt to delay cleaning their hoard. If they could delay cleaning by telling you they were transspecies and identified as a raccoon and you were oppressing them because racoons need trash to nest in, they would do that. Filter out their antics and focus only on completing the sale.

I'm embarrassed because you are right about me pointing out the logic flaws as if they are rational. Head in hands over here.

I will stop!

OP

The elderly parent asked me today if it was difficult to work on the house with my sibling.

This parent gets off on disagreements and drama, and I didn't want to feed that. I asked them to expand on what they meant by "difficult." They wouldn't explain, so I said I couldn't understand what they were asking and so couldn't answer their question. "I'm just curious," they said.

Man, that felt good. This elderly parent has created issues between us siblings (lying about things to make others angry) for whatever reason, and the three of us have been caught in a Drama Triangle. Once I learned about the Drama Triangle, I exited it from it and now sibling and elderly parent yell at each other and fight from time to time.

Things are progressing! I've spoken to contractors and vendors about tasks that need to get done. I just keep recalling what some of you said about ripping the Band Aid off and risking getting yelled at. The yelling part is really nothing new anyway, so I should be used to it.

OP

It's a serious mental illness, OP.

https://helplinefaqs.nami.org/article/50-how-can-i-get-help-support-for-hoarding-disorder

Don't drag it out, it prolongs the stress for you unnecessarily and the tax consequences are real. Just get it done and CHANGE THE LOCKS TODAY.

You have been trained all your life to capitulate to crazy as if tomorrow they will be sane. Hasn't worked yet and never will. Be more self protective, change locks, don't share contact info of professionals, etc. Just do it, OP, then it will be over. No pods, storage units, etc, just clear out what is still there on X date. She won't have a key so no adds. Estate sale on Y date. House listed on Z date in condition to maximize sale value.

Then it will all be in the past and her hoarding will not impact you. Stop dragging things out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THaNK YOU, everyone, for helping me. I am not sure I would have taken these steps so well without you guys telling me not to put up with this situation.

I needed an outside voice like yours who is not locked in this dysfunctional family.

I’m glad some progress had been made. But really, call 1 800 junk, go over there without your sister and just start cleaning massive amounts out letting the 800 junk people throw it in their truck and haul it off.

This, just get it over with and change the locks, OP.

Get a locksmith out today to change the locks, OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell them it has to be sold due to tax reasons. There’s no disputing that. Set a date that the realtor is coming and the house will need to be empty by that date. Suggest they move anything they wish to keep to storage, and there will be an estate sale and clean out the week before the realtor comes.

This is genius and true. I'm doing this.

I told the real estate agent a date for getting house on the market and copied hoarder who emailed within minutes to say it'll be a month later. OMG. The delay tactics have already started (again).

OP

Why on earth are you copying your sibling on this stuff? Get a plan with the real estate agent and just execute on your plan. You have POA. You need to assume the relationship with your sibling will implode. They have a mental illness. You aren’t going to magically solve this. Just do what you need to do.

You are right. It’s hard to step out of the family dynamic yet I’m going to do what you say.

You all are helping me feel brave. Thank you!!

OP

If this RE agent backs out do not share name and contact info of next one with mentally ill person.

When is the date for the estate sale? The company will publicize it. No backing off it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell them it has to be sold due to tax reasons. There’s no disputing that. Set a date that the realtor is coming and the house will need to be empty by that date. Suggest they move anything they wish to keep to storage, and there will be an estate sale and clean out the week before the realtor comes.

This is genius and true. I'm doing this.

I told the real estate agent a date for getting house on the market and copied hoarder who emailed within minutes to say it'll be a month later. OMG. The delay tactics have already started (again).

OP

Expect that and refuse. The agent can refer you to people to help with clear out and cleaning.

Good luck, OP. I'd be more strategic and not give her access to that person's name or contact information. Set the date for the estate sale.

Keep us posted!

Anonymous wrote:I have the POA.

Hoarder would be backup if I can’t or won’t do it.

Parent changed POA to me after death of the other parent (years ago) and did want to tell my sibling. They left me with that…and seemed quite gleeful it would be me telling them.

My parent is hot and cold about hoarder sibling. It’s a tiring dynamic.

OP

You have a lot of mental illness in your family, OP, it helps explain your ineffective behavior toward it. For your own well being, once house is sold, check out coda.org. I think NAMI may have some information on hoarding, too.

Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares? Tell them they have until 1/31 and on 2/1 when they haven't done it, call the junk haulers.

I will have to deal with character defamation and screaming and 10 phone calls a day so I care.

OP

But no matter what you do or when you do it, this is going to happen. You're looking for a way to make an irrational person rational. It's not going to happen.

You need to do what needs to be done to secure the elder's finances. Attempting to accommodate hoarder sibling is a barrier to that. If there were a squatter in the house, would you try to make them leave happily, or would you accept that they need to leave by whatever means necessary?

Very good point!

I’ve taken initial steps based on your advice.

My plan will be to rent a storage unit and hire movers to move hoarder’s stuff there with the boundary that they have 1 month and then either pay or the stuff is taken.

Get junk haulers to come.

I will provide POA paperwork.

Then painters, cleaners, etc.

Not a good plan. You will be the contracted party with storage and have legal consequences if they are not paid. Your sister has a house, just take anything there that isn't trash that you don't want, skip the intervening step and be done with it. Definitely hire a company to help with the sorting and packing.

Anonymous wrote:If you rent the storage space, you are legally on the hook for it. I'd be careful about assuming a clean "you take over the space or they will take possession of the storage space." You don't want anything adverse on your financial records from this.

This.

OP, you need to skip the "storage" step. Have it hauled to her home or junked. Otherwise you may be paying for the storage of trash in perpetuity and the storage company could take legal action against you.

Are you sole POA? If not, it is a much tricker situation legally.

I feel for her kids. Hoarding is a serious mental illness. If relatives say anything, just use that word and say you are looking out for your mother's finances. And block the hoarder's number.

OP, get a locksmith out there today.

You need to maximize the sale $ for your elderly parent.

Block the number of your sibling.

She is MENTALLY ILL, you seem not to grasp that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares? Tell them they have until 1/31 and on 2/1 when they haven't done it, call the junk haulers.

I will have to deal with character defamation and screaming and 10 phone calls a day so I care.

OP

OP, do you have POA?

If so, once haulers come you will have to have a locksmith change the locks to prevent access.

The hoarder is seriously mentally ill, do you understand that? We can't control other people. If relatives do not understand she is mentally ill, you can't control them either. Block the number.

If you don't have POA you will need to consult a lawyer.

You need to buck up and do what is needed for the parent with dementia. They will need all the money for their care, not an extra tax bill.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a daughter of a hoarder I can tell you that your relative will never ever empty the house.
In fact, he is making it more hoarded as we speak.
Make of it what you will.

+1

Same here.

And expect that when you try to address the hoarding in even a small way, you will be attacked- hoarding is a mental disorder. Tread carefully.

I hear you. I’m not seeing new junk taking up space.

However, hoarder pulls papers and books out of drawers and off shelves and spreads them all over the floor. Maybe that is their way of making the space more hoarded. They didn’t even bother cleaning that up before we had people come in.

It’s crazy we will miss out on $150,000 or so for the home’s sale price because we no longer have the time to spruce up the house due to the hoarder.

This thread is making me brave.

And thank you, PP, I tried to tread carefully and hoarder has already yelled at me. Sadly, I also yelled back, which I do not want to do.

They said I would not “let them” move because I asked them not to move one one certain day last year. There were another 300 days or so that were fine…

OP

Change the locks and full speed ahead. I know it’s exhausting but try to disregard sibling’s manipulation right now. Your mom designated you POA and your responsibility is to her. If there’s anything left specifically designated for sibling, make sure it’s set aside. Junk haul the rest.

This. There shouldn’t be the opportunity for your sibling to be there taking tax forms, spreading papers, etc. They should have no access to the house. Get a locksmith out there tomorrow and stop delaying.

I don’t understand why hoarder sibling even factors in to this. Parent who owns house wants it sold. Sibling with POA wants it sold. Change the locks, sell the house.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a daughter of a hoarder I can tell you that your relative will never ever empty the house.
In fact, he is making it more hoarded as we speak.
Make of it what you will.

+1

Same here.

And expect that when you try to address the hoarding in even a small way, you will be attacked- hoarding is a mental disorder. Tread carefully.

I hear you. I’m not seeing new junk taking up space.

However, hoarder pulls papers and books out of drawers and off shelves and spreads them all over the floor. Maybe that is their way of making the space more hoarded. They didn’t even bother cleaning that up before we had people come in.

It’s crazy we will miss out on $150,000 or so for the home’s sale price because we no longer have the time to spruce up the house due to the hoarder.

This thread is making me brave.

And thank you, PP, I tried to tread carefully and hoarder has already yelled at me. Sadly, I also yelled back, which I do not want to do.

They said I would not “let them” move because I asked them not to move one one certain day last year. There were another 300 days or so that were fine…

OP

Change the locks and full speed ahead. I know it’s exhausting but try to disregard sibling’s manipulation right now. Your mom designated you POA and your responsibility is to her. If there’s anything left specifically designated for sibling, make sure it’s set aside. Junk haul the rest.

This. There shouldn’t be the opportunity for your sibling to be there taking tax forms, spreading papers, etc. They should have no access to the house. Get a locksmith out there tomorrow and stop delaying.

Anonymous wrote:
However, hoarder pulls papers and books out of drawers and off shelves and spreads them all over the floor. Maybe that is their way of making the space more hoarded. They didn’t even bother cleaning that up before we had people come in.

Nope. They don't get to do that. Take what YOU want from the house. Get rid of the rest.

Block calls from your mentally ill sibling if need be. I'm really sorry. Hoarding is a mental illness, but you can't let their illness harm you mother financially.