He crossed some lines (threatened violence, verbal abuse started towards the kids too) and there was no going back to me. That was in addition to the years of exactly what you said (neglect, stressed out work addict, no talking, stonewalling, basically a bump on a log).

Once a supposed life partner crossed a hard boundary, it is tough to roll that back. Trust and reliability were already gone, his unhealth was bleeding into mine and the kinds becoming unhealthy.

Zoom out and look at your household. Join a group of women dealing with the same stuff. Listen. Look at your house as an insider. My takeaway was to leave, and I felt sorry for story after story of women whose lives were getting ruined on an ongoing basis yet don't leave.

It is totally normal to no longer feel anything for someone who caused this much damage to the marriage, relationship and trust. Totally normal.

Anonymous wrote:I hear you saying he has changed but your feelings have not. Two things: first, you choose your feelings (they are created by your thoughts which are under your control). They are not just something that happen to you. Second, it’s hard to turn around a cruise liner. You were caught in a loop of (justified) negative thoughts for a long time. It’s unrealistic for you to expect to change your thoughts/feelings easily just because circumstances have changed.

Thank you. I have tried to give myself that grace and he has also been very understanding about giving me time to heal. It’s taken him awhile to understand that this went on for years from my perspective compared to his emotional injuries which were more or less confined to my being emotionally absent last year. We’ve unlearned some dysfunctional patterns which is great, I just struggle with how long we should tolerate this painful limbo before deciding it just won’t change. I guess your point is it can take a long time for those potential changes to happen and for a full deep love to return.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's okay to leave a marriage, if it isn't what you want. Even after 20 years. Even after he tried hard to fix the problem. Sometimes it goes that way. Be kind to him, but take care of yourself. You don't have to stay for him.

Thank you. I am very concerned about hurting him and feel that that urge may be getting in the way of identifying and communicating what I think I want. He’s come a long enough way that he has requested that I be as direct with him as possible and not worry about sparing his feelings, and while I’ve otherwise done that I am really afraid that if I say I want to leave that it will be the wrong choice because of how far we’ve come. Like maybe if I give it a few more months, a year, etc then something will change in me.

Just don't take a permanent solution to a potentially temporary problem. Think ahead. What if one of you gets sick, who will care for you and your kids? What do you want to look back on in 25 years?

+1. Seriously think about what divorce looks like, him finding someone else who could be a parent in your kids' lives. All of the effort from your end will benefit someone else most likely. Give yourself some grace so that you can move on with your resentment?

OP here is add that often when we talk I get upset and feel sad. But it’s incredibly difficult to understand if that sadness is grief because of the situation and that it feels over or whether that sadness is just something that needs more time to navigate and heal from.

I hear you saying he has changed but your feelings have not. Two things: first, you choose your feelings (they are created by your thoughts which are under your control). They are not just something that happen to you. Second, it’s hard to turn around a cruise liner. You were caught in a loop of (justified) negative thoughts for a long time. It’s unrealistic for you to expect to change your thoughts/feelings easily just because circumstances have changed.

Anonymous wrote:I think it sounds like there is something there worth saving. One approach could be to ask the old Dear Abby question "Am I better with him or without him?" Also, remember that love is a verb - you have to act like you are in love.

I think this is the singular thread keeping me in the marriage right now. That I do still have love and fondness toward him, and coupled with our progress makes it seem like it’s worth staying to see if it can improve and my feelings can change “back.” But it’s also mentally and emotionally exhausting for both of us to be in this limbo, a limbo I naturally feel responsible for since he’s made clear he wants to stay together.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's okay to leave a marriage, if it isn't what you want. Even after 20 years. Even after he tried hard to fix the problem. Sometimes it goes that way. Be kind to him, but take care of yourself. You don't have to stay for him.

Thank you. I am very concerned about hurting him and feel that that urge may be getting in the way of identifying and communicating what I think I want. He’s come a long enough way that he has requested that I be as direct with him as possible and not worry about sparing his feelings, and while I’ve otherwise done that I am really afraid that if I say I want to leave that it will be the wrong choice because of how far we’ve come. Like maybe if I give it a few more months, a year, etc then something will change in me.

Just don't take a permanent solution to a potentially temporary problem. Think ahead. What if one of you gets sick, who will care for you and your kids? What do you want to look back on in 25 years?

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read the article, but I was in a similar position.

I think it’s largely because misogynistic societal expectations that women need to tolerate poor behavior from partners. That if we expect better, we’re high maintenance, crazy, disloyal, that’s just how men are, etc. Then once marriage and especially kids arrive, we’re expected to tolerate it because divorce is bad, and we need to do what’s best “for the kids”.

So we tolerate it and are unhappy for years, until one day we just stop caring. All the love is gone. And that’s when men notice and decide to change, but it’s too late. After years of begging for our needs to be met, we’re just done. The love doesn’t come back no matter what men do to fix things.

There is also a lot of resentment because men *could* do these things all along, they just chose not to until it impacted THEM and their needs.

Whereas if we had high standards and held men to them right from the get-go, we’d either really up before marriage and/or kids, or they would understand the expectations needed to be met or the relationship would end immediately.

Yes that is one of the most frustrating parts and I said this to him the other night. I took me basically falling off an emotional cliff for him to notice the severity, and it wasn’t until HE started feeling my pulling away that HE decided “okay I agree to therapy now.”

I feel like it would be much easier to come to a decision that felt right if he had not made so much progress in his mindset. This is why the article suggests that these men who have made real changes make great second husbands! When I do feel like I want to leave, I feel much less justified in that path because he is doing “the work” and I see the positive changes of it.

I think it sounds like there is something there worth saving. One approach could be to ask the old Dear Abby question "Am I better with him or without him?" Also, remember that love is a verb - you have to act like you are in love.

I didn’t read the article, but I was in a similar position.

I think it’s largely because misogynistic societal expectations that women need to tolerate poor behavior from partners. That if we expect better, we’re high maintenance, crazy, disloyal, that’s just how men are, etc. Then once marriage and especially kids arrive, we’re expected to tolerate it because divorce is bad, and we need to do what’s best “for the kids”.

So we tolerate it and are unhappy for years, until one day we just stop caring. All the love is gone. And that’s when men notice and decide to change, but it’s too late. After years of begging for our needs to be met, we’re just done. The love doesn’t come back no matter what men do to fix things.

There is also a lot of resentment because men *could* do these things all along, they just chose not to until it impacted THEM and their needs.

Whereas if we had high standards and held men to them right from the get-go, we’d either really up before marriage and/or kids, or they would understand the expectations needed to be met or the relationship would end immediately.

Anonymous wrote:It's okay to leave a marriage, if it isn't what you want. Even after 20 years. Even after he tried hard to fix the problem. Sometimes it goes that way. Be kind to him, but take care of yourself. You don't have to stay for him.

Thank you. I am very concerned about hurting him and feel that that urge may be getting in the way of identifying and communicating what I think I want. He’s come a long enough way that he has requested that I be as direct with him as possible and not worry about sparing his feelings, and while I’ve otherwise done that I am really afraid that if I say I want to leave that it will be the wrong choice because of how far we’ve come. Like maybe if I give it a few more months, a year, etc then something will change in me.

Anonymous wrote:Are you divorcing him because he didn't pay enough attention to you or because you find him physically undesirable?

I am not certain we are divorcing, but I guess I would describe it as he didn’t pay attention to my feelings and my communicated needs, which caused my romantic partnership feelings toward him to change/go away. Because of that change I find it very difficult to connect with him emotionally and sexually. Objectively he is physically desirable but I find myself shutting down at the prospect of sex.

If that’s the same as what you describe above then I guess the shorter version is “both.”

It's okay to leave a marriage, if it isn't what you want. Even after 20 years. Even after he tried hard to fix the problem. Sometimes it goes that way. Be kind to him, but take care of yourself. You don't have to stay for him.

Are you divorcing him because he didn't pay enough attention to you or because you find him physically undesirable?

I just discovered this term and found this article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/divorce-busting/200803/the-walkaway-wife-syndrome#:~:text=During%20the%20early%20years%20of,is%20right%20in%20the%20world. and I was shocked at the accuracy. I've been spending years in my marriage asking my spouse for more help, more time together, more engagement in the family as a unit, and asked to go to therapy multiple times over the years. Things finally came to a head right before covid when I basically pleaded with him for more support and he said he is "too ambitious" and could never give me the additional support I need. I felt the marriage was over, completely disconnected from him outside of simple logistical matters, and grieved the end of my marriage and wondered what I would do.

Well surprise, he (finally) noticed, wanted to work it out, (finally) agreed we should go to therapy. He had hit a professional rock bottom and turned to meditation and read multiple books and realized a lot of his previous mindset was his own ego. My heart was so closed and my feelings toward him had changed so significantly but I knew trying therapy was important, if nothing else as a last resort to ensure we had tried everything. We have been in couples for 9 months and we have made incredible progress in terms of open communication, sharing feelings, being intentional toward one another.

But I still just...don't love him romantically. I recognize and truly appreciate the work he has done. I feel a fondness for him and our history (almost 20 years). But I sometimes feel uncomfortable when we kiss, have sex (I have shared all this with him and he is understanding).

I'm/We're struggling with what to do next. Recently I reiterated that for the last few months of otherwise good progress my feelings toward him haven't changed. I think he found that really disheartening and I completely, completely understand why. But I also can't just pretend. It's been such a painful process to see the work we've put in and really try to be invested but not have it materialize. We're in a good position in all other aspects -- we've talked in detail about our plan if we were to divorce, we're as comfortable as can be with how it might "look" from a custody and financial perspective.

I've been doing my own work on the side, individual therapy for this whole time, reading, also trying to be intentional and affectionate when I do feel positively toward him and talking about it with him when I don't. My individual therapist suggested I need to try to figure out whether my pain and hurt is from past injuries that are still unresolved or whether my intuition is telling me what I want and I am ignoring it/forcing something that isn't there.

I guess I don't have a question just needed to put it out there. Anyone been in this situation and what happened?