Anonymous
08/15/2021 20:27
Subject: Re:Queer- help me understand what it means
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Queer is one of those words that was reclaimed - it definitely used to be a negative word, and now people have embraced it.
Most of the people I know who identify as "queer" just don't want to get into details of exactly which way their gender or sexuality don't conform to the cis-hetero standard.
So, for example, I know a trans man who is happily married to a woman, and has been for a long time, though he is generally attracted to both men and woman. So, obviously, being outside the mainstream on gender and sexuality has always been the case for him, but he "reads" as straight right now - he's a man married to a woman. He uses the word queer to describe himself without going into much detail - he's a member of the LGBTQ+ community, and is proud of that, but isn't necessarily interested in outing himself as trans (he passes very well).
Several other examples similar to that in my sphere. It's a very flexible term.
OP here, thank you for your answer. Is queer used more among the younger generation? I'm just curious how older gay people feel about the term since it used to be considered a negative word.
Most gay people 30+ prefer the words gay, lesbian, or bi to queer. I’m in my early 30s and I dislike queer because 1) it is still a slur to me, 2) it doesn’t really mean anything — plenty of people living hetero lives are calling themselves queer, 3) the word lesbian is more feminist because it’s a firm stance with firm boundaries.
That being said I’m not going to get upset if someone who doesn’t know better calls me queer, since getting upset over words is silly as long as people mean well. But you’ll never hear me say it.
Anonymous
08/12/2021 12:32
Subject: Re:Queer- help me understand what it means
I think as being not straight becomes more socially acceptable, it becomes clearer what a big tent encompasses LGBTQIA+ (and those who say they have "same sex attraction"). When the supreme court ruled in Obergefell, I saw people posting rainbow confederate flags in celebration. I lean toward being a live and let live/I don't have all the answers person, but confederate flags have no place in the big tent. I also think we should shun gay parents who use homophobic laws to deny custody to their child's other parent.
Anonymous
08/12/2021 09:46
Subject: Re:Queer- help me understand what it means
I think the pp makes an excellent point about attacking those who disagree and how the community is not cohesive in their beliefs. There are even movements within the community to separate the LGB from the T because sexuality is different than gender identity. Some believe, for example, that children are being transitioned who otherwise would have grown up to be gay adults. Lesbians have expressed frustrations with dating because they are called transphobic if they exclude trans women.
Anonymous
08/12/2021 09:20
Subject: Re:Queer- help me understand what it means
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:From the the perspective of this gay person, queer increasingly symbolizes having a certain political and cultural outlook rather than your sex preferences.
Most gay and lesbians I know don't call themselves queer. They're just normal people who happen to have same sex attractions. Some are conservative, others are liberals, others are middle of the road. Some may be a bit more active and be happy to fly the rainbow flag but they don't define themselves and their life by homosexuality.
Then you have a population for whom homosexuality (and whoever the ridiculously long list of "alternative" sexuality now includes) is not only a key part of their identity, but they deliberately seek to be as alternative and different as possible. Many self-labeled "queer" people have far, far, far more in common with straight people of similar mindsets than they do with other gay and lesbians. It does seem to be more young people (20s and younger) as it's fashionable at that phase of life to invent identities for yourself and to reject your hated conventionalism, but there are older ones too. "Queers" are very intolerant and judgmental of people who disagree with just about anything they want to believe in, and this extends to other gays and lesbians as well.
But I also do see it as part of the growing and deepening divide, which does mirror the divides in other areas in American society as well.
Just the fact that you think it is ridiculous that sexuality extends beyond straight and gay, and that gender questioning/identity issues are now within the Queer purview tells me all I need to know: you are a bigot. And you think by setting up some straw man argument between "normal" gay people and "Self-labeled queer" people you have some credibility -- but you don't. I have yet to me a gay lesbian person who objects to the expansion of Queer to include other people.
And yes, Queer folks are more concerned with civil liberties than people like you, and yes that does bleed into our politics as well.
You just confirmed what the post said. Calling people bigots for having different views and declaring to all and sundry that you have the higher moral ground and refusing to countenance any disagreement = righteous and judgmental.
People these days do seem to move in very exclusionary circles so they have little knowledge of different people or exposure to different views. There's no single or united "LGTBTA+" community that thinks and acts in unison. Plenty of gays and lesbians don't think that transgenderism has a biological basis, for example. And are skeptical of alternative gender identities. Like all people, gays and lesbians can have widely different views and experiences. The arrogance of LGBTA or "queer" activists is proclaiming that they speak for a community when that community in fact doesn't exist.
Anonymous
08/11/2021 22:34
Subject: Queer- help me understand what it means
loved the conversation btw david sedaris and tig notaro on this topic. poorly transcribed but:
[00:23:45]
I'm a firm believer in boyfriend. You know, I'm I still say it. And I know all these well-meaning people want to say, partner, you know, like they heard somebody say partner. And so then they think, oh, that's the thing to do. Like. I don't know how you feel about this, but, you know, we're clear now and I'm not. I mean, I'm not queer, I'm gay, but everybody but now you're supposed to say queer and so people say queer because they think, you know, they're well-meaning people and they're trying to say the right thing.
[00:24:22]
And so and it's like no one ever asked me. Right?
[00:24:27]
Well, somebody asked me on a flight. I was like, this was the craziest. And I know they meant well, but. I was sitting there and the flight attendant came up and asked what pronoun I would like and I was a little thrown off and I, I just said, oh, she her. And I said, but also, why aren't you asking everybody else on this flight? It was it was so uncomfortable.
[00:25:05]
And it was it was a moment of not making an assumption, but making an assumption.
[00:25:14]
But well-meaning people, someone told them. And so they think, OK, this is what we should be doing now. And so I say boyfriend. And I don't care how old I am.
[00:23:45]
I'm a firm believer in boyfriend. You know, I'm I still say it. And I know all these well-meaning people want to say, partner, you know, like they heard somebody say partner. And so then they think, oh, that's the thing to do. Like. I don't know how you feel about this, but, you know, we're clear now and I'm not. I mean, I'm not queer, I'm gay, but everybody but now you're supposed to say queer and so people say queer because they think, you know, they're well-meaning people and they're trying to say the right thing.
[00:24:22]
And so and it's like no one ever asked me. Right?
[00:24:27]
Well, somebody asked me on a flight. I was like, this was the craziest. And I know they meant well, but. I was sitting there and the flight attendant came up and asked what pronoun I would like and I was a little thrown off and I, I just said, oh, she her. And I said, but also, why aren't you asking everybody else on this flight? It was it was so uncomfortable.
[00:25:05]
And it was it was a moment of not making an assumption, but making an assumption.
[00:25:14]
But well-meaning people, someone told them. And so they think, OK, this is what we should be doing now. And so I say boyfriend. And I don't care how old I am.
Anonymous
08/11/2021 13:51
Subject: Re:Queer- help me understand what it means
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Queer is one of those words that was reclaimed - it definitely used to be a negative word, and now people have embraced it.
Most of the people I know who identify as "queer" just don't want to get into details of exactly which way their gender or sexuality don't conform to the cis-hetero standard.
So, for example, I know a trans man who is happily married to a woman, and has been for a long time, though he is generally attracted to both men and woman. So, obviously, being outside the mainstream on gender and sexuality has always been the case for him, but he "reads" as straight right now - he's a man married to a woman. He uses the word queer to describe himself without going into much detail - he's a member of the LGBTQ+ community, and is proud of that, but isn't necessarily interested in outing himself as trans (he passes very well).
Several other examples similar to that in my sphere. It's a very flexible term.
OP here, thank you for your answer. Is queer used more among the younger generation? I'm just curious how older gay people feel about the term since it used to be considered a negative word.
I'm the PP - I don't know the answer to that - I'm in my 30s, and interact mostly with people in their 30s and early 40s, so my sample size isn't very age-diverse.
Anonymous
08/11/2021 13:50
Subject: Re:Queer- help me understand what it means
Anonymous wrote:From the the perspective of this gay person, queer increasingly symbolizes having a certain political and cultural outlook rather than your sex preferences.
Most gay and lesbians I know don't call themselves queer. They're just normal people who happen to have same sex attractions. Some are conservative, others are liberals, others are middle of the road. Some may be a bit more active and be happy to fly the rainbow flag but they don't define themselves and their life by homosexuality.
Then you have a population for whom homosexuality (and whoever the ridiculously long list of "alternative" sexuality now includes) is not only a key part of their identity, but they deliberately seek to be as alternative and different as possible. Many self-labeled "queer" people have far, far, far more in common with straight people of similar mindsets than they do with other gay and lesbians. It does seem to be more young people (20s and younger) as it's fashionable at that phase of life to invent identities for yourself and to reject your hated conventionalism, but there are older ones too. "Queers" are very intolerant and judgmental of people who disagree with just about anything they want to believe in, and this extends to other gays and lesbians as well.
But I also do see it as part of the growing and deepening divide, which does mirror the divides in other areas in American society as well.
I agree from the other side of the divide
I'm almost 50. I use queer because my sexuality is complicated and people don't need to know all the details and because I see queer as a political stance. I'm pretty far left and engaged in local poltiics and organizing. Most LGBT people I know also embrace queer.
Anonymous
08/11/2021 13:47
Subject: Re:Queer- help me understand what it means
Anonymous wrote:From the the perspective of this gay person, queer increasingly symbolizes having a certain political and cultural outlook rather than your sex preferences.
Most gay and lesbians I know don't call themselves queer. They're just normal people who happen to have same sex attractions. Some are conservative, others are liberals, others are middle of the road. Some may be a bit more active and be happy to fly the rainbow flag but they don't define themselves and their life by homosexuality.
Then you have a population for whom homosexuality (and whoever the ridiculously long list of "alternative" sexuality now includes) is not only a key part of their identity, but they deliberately seek to be as alternative and different as possible. Many self-labeled "queer" people have far, far, far more in common with straight people of similar mindsets than they do with other gay and lesbians. It does seem to be more young people (20s and younger) as it's fashionable at that phase of life to invent identities for yourself and to reject your hated conventionalism, but there are older ones too. "Queers" are very intolerant and judgmental of people who disagree with just about anything they want to believe in, and this extends to other gays and lesbians as well.
But I also do see it as part of the growing and deepening divide, which does mirror the divides in other areas in American society as well.
Just the fact that you think it is ridiculous that sexuality extends beyond straight and gay, and that gender questioning/identity issues are now within the Queer purview tells me all I need to know: you are a bigot. And you think by setting up some straw man argument between "normal" gay people and "Self-labeled queer" people you have some credibility -- but you don't. I have yet to me a gay lesbian person who objects to the expansion of Queer to include other people.
And yes, Queer folks are more concerned with civil liberties than people like you, and yes that does bleed into our politics as well.
Anonymous
08/11/2021 13:42
Subject: Re:Queer- help me understand what it means
From the the perspective of this gay person, queer increasingly symbolizes having a certain political and cultural outlook rather than your sex preferences.
Most gay and lesbians I know don't call themselves queer. They're just normal people who happen to have same sex attractions. Some are conservative, others are liberals, others are middle of the road. Some may be a bit more active and be happy to fly the rainbow flag but they don't define themselves and their life by homosexuality.
Then you have a population for whom homosexuality (and whoever the ridiculously long list of "alternative" sexuality now includes) is not only a key part of their identity, but they deliberately seek to be as alternative and different as possible. Many self-labeled "queer" people have far, far, far more in common with straight people of similar mindsets than they do with other gay and lesbians. It does seem to be more young people (20s and younger) as it's fashionable at that phase of life to invent identities for yourself and to reject your hated conventionalism, but there are older ones too. "Queers" are very intolerant and judgmental of people who disagree with just about anything they want to believe in, and this extends to other gays and lesbians as well.
But I also do see it as part of the growing and deepening divide, which does mirror the divides in other areas in American society as well.
Most gay and lesbians I know don't call themselves queer. They're just normal people who happen to have same sex attractions. Some are conservative, others are liberals, others are middle of the road. Some may be a bit more active and be happy to fly the rainbow flag but they don't define themselves and their life by homosexuality.
Then you have a population for whom homosexuality (and whoever the ridiculously long list of "alternative" sexuality now includes) is not only a key part of their identity, but they deliberately seek to be as alternative and different as possible. Many self-labeled "queer" people have far, far, far more in common with straight people of similar mindsets than they do with other gay and lesbians. It does seem to be more young people (20s and younger) as it's fashionable at that phase of life to invent identities for yourself and to reject your hated conventionalism, but there are older ones too. "Queers" are very intolerant and judgmental of people who disagree with just about anything they want to believe in, and this extends to other gays and lesbians as well.
But I also do see it as part of the growing and deepening divide, which does mirror the divides in other areas in American society as well.
Anonymous
08/11/2021 13:32
Subject: Re:Queer- help me understand what it means
Anonymous wrote:Queer is one of those words that was reclaimed - it definitely used to be a negative word, and now people have embraced it.
Most of the people I know who identify as "queer" just don't want to get into details of exactly which way their gender or sexuality don't conform to the cis-hetero standard.
So, for example, I know a trans man who is happily married to a woman, and has been for a long time, though he is generally attracted to both men and woman. So, obviously, being outside the mainstream on gender and sexuality has always been the case for him, but he "reads" as straight right now - he's a man married to a woman. He uses the word queer to describe himself without going into much detail - he's a member of the LGBTQ+ community, and is proud of that, but isn't necessarily interested in outing himself as trans (he passes very well).
Several other examples similar to that in my sphere. It's a very flexible term.
OP here, thank you for your answer. Is queer used more among the younger generation? I'm just curious how older gay people feel about the term since it used to be considered a negative word.
Anonymous
08/11/2021 13:30
Subject: Queer- help me understand what it means
Anonymous wrote:I hear people label themselves as queer and honestly I don't really know what it means. How is different from being gay? Also I thought queer used to be a slur against gay people. Is it not concerned offensive anymore?
I see it as kind of a broad catch all for people in the lgbtq community. It could include a trans person, a bisexual woman in a straight relationship, a gay person etc.
Anonymous
08/11/2021 13:30
Subject: Re:Queer- help me understand what it means
Anonymous wrote:Queer is one of those words that was reclaimed - it definitely used to be a negative word, and now people have embraced it.
Most of the people I know who identify as "queer" just don't want to get into details of exactly which way their gender or sexuality don't conform to the cis-hetero standard.
So, for example, I know a trans man who is happily married to a woman, and has been for a long time, though he is generally attracted to both men and woman. So, obviously, being outside the mainstream on gender and sexuality has always been the case for him, but he "reads" as straight right now - he's a man married to a woman. He uses the word queer to describe himself without going into much detail - he's a member of the LGBTQ+ community, and is proud of that, but isn't necessarily interested in outing himself as trans (he passes very well).
Several other examples similar to that in my sphere. It's a very flexible term.
PP just to add - I've generally just gone with whatever people say they are, and just straight up acceptance, "oh, okay, cool" and then as you get to know someone better, the details tend to be come a bit more clear. That's worked well for me (I'm a cis-hetero woman). Some people may prefer to be labeled as gay, bi, pan, trans, queer, etc, and trying to parse the exact differences is less important than just letting people label themselves how they want.
Anonymous
08/11/2021 13:28
Subject: Re:Queer- help me understand what it means
Queer is one of those words that was reclaimed - it definitely used to be a negative word, and now people have embraced it.
Most of the people I know who identify as "queer" just don't want to get into details of exactly which way their gender or sexuality don't conform to the cis-hetero standard.
So, for example, I know a trans man who is happily married to a woman, and has been for a long time, though he is generally attracted to both men and woman. So, obviously, being outside the mainstream on gender and sexuality has always been the case for him, but he "reads" as straight right now - he's a man married to a woman. He uses the word queer to describe himself without going into much detail - he's a member of the LGBTQ+ community, and is proud of that, but isn't necessarily interested in outing himself as trans (he passes very well).
Several other examples similar to that in my sphere. It's a very flexible term.
Most of the people I know who identify as "queer" just don't want to get into details of exactly which way their gender or sexuality don't conform to the cis-hetero standard.
So, for example, I know a trans man who is happily married to a woman, and has been for a long time, though he is generally attracted to both men and woman. So, obviously, being outside the mainstream on gender and sexuality has always been the case for him, but he "reads" as straight right now - he's a man married to a woman. He uses the word queer to describe himself without going into much detail - he's a member of the LGBTQ+ community, and is proud of that, but isn't necessarily interested in outing himself as trans (he passes very well).
Several other examples similar to that in my sphere. It's a very flexible term.
Anonymous
08/11/2021 13:20
Subject: Queer- help me understand what it means
I hear people label themselves as queer and honestly I don't really know what it means. How is different from being gay? Also I thought queer used to be a slur against gay people. Is it not concerned offensive anymore?