RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the Father's Day tournament in Fairfax, a goalie picked up the ball then put it down to kick it, and the ref told him he couldn't do that and had him pick it up again. Should the coach complain to the tournament about this ref?

So based on your post in the other thread, this was a U10 game, which means they play with build out lines. Build out lines rules are not all clear. I am a referee and I haven't done a game with build out lines for a bit, in general, when a GK has possession of the ball, the other team has to retreat beyond the build out line. The opponent came press the ball once the GK plays the ball. Build out line rules doesn't talk about what "playing the ball" means. Does it mean once the GK puts it on the ground? I don't know. If a referee was asking the GK to throw it or roll it, I think that's OK. If the GK placed it on the ground and quickly passed it to a teammate, I think that's OK too, but remember drop kicks are not allowed either, so the GK can't drop it and kick it on the bounce. So as much as I hate to defend RSD if he was the culprit, I can see where requesting the GK to throw or roll the ball is OK. Again, I'm sure you can find plenty of referees that 100% agree with you.

I was most definitely not the culprit.

I understand the frustration on whether the GK can put the ball down and play it himself/herself. I haven't found a reason why not, as long as the ball isn't bouncing (which would be a drop kick). I think this site backs me up: "Once the goalkeeper releases possession with their hands, the opposing team may cross the build out line and resume normal play."

http://www.folsomreferees.org/buildoutline/

This U.S. Youth Soccer presentation says the goalkeeper can "pass, throw or roll the ball back into play." I don't see a distinction between "rolling" the ball and setting it down. I wouldn't want to be the one to argue whether the ball "rolled" an inch or so after being "set down."

https://www.usyouthsoccer.org/assets/1/6/897090_eng-october2017pdi.pdf

The intent of the buildout line is to make kids play out of the back. Having seen a lot of U-9 games in which one team just packed players around the box, swiped the goal kick and scored, I think it's progress. Now young defenders have a little bit of breathing room.

The "no punting" rule is indeed in part to prevent headers. It's actually a little frustrating at U-11 to have punts bounce all over the midfield while players figure out how to deal with the ball if they can't head it, so I wouldn't mind holding off on punting until U-12.

Both rules are basically designed to that everyone is involved in the action. If you just have forwards pressing defenders, the action is stuck there. And before the ban on punts, you'd see someone punt the length of the field to the other keeper while the parents go "YEEAAAAAHH! GREAT KICK!" With the BOL and the ban on punts, you have more of a chance of the ball getting into the midfield and making players sort it out from there.

Whether they accomplish what they're trying to accomplish is subject to debate. But that's the idea.

As to whether coaches should complain -- ideally, ask the ref about it in a quiet moment when the ref is near the sideline. Don't challenge the ref's authority and credibility by yelling across the field over something that's frankly rather trivial. The ref is either going to double down on an incorrect reading of the Laws/rules or look less authoritative, which could lead to the ref losing control and winding up with something happening that's much worse than whether the keeper can roll the ball out.

And coaches are going to be wrong about 90% of the time -- many of them have not kept up to speed on the nuances of the changes IFAB has made in the last few years. (That may have been a factor in a run-in I had with a couple of coaches on Sunday -- they may disagree with my application of the Laws on handling, but they weren't even listening to my explanation.)

And to repeat -- no, that wasn't me. On Saturday, I reffed the 8 a.m. and 9:15 a.m. games on Green Acres Field #2, the one that's farthest from the parking lot. I had SYA vs. NVSC, then BRYC vs. Annandale. Two U-10 games with no significant controversy, solid sportsmanship and some pretty good play. If you think I told a GK to pick up the ball, I'm not sure where you got that impression.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the Father's Day tournament in Fairfax, a goalie picked up the ball then put it down to kick it, and the ref told him he couldn't do that and had him pick it up again. Should the coach complain to the tournament about this ref?

So based on your post in the other thread, this was a U10 game, which means they play with build out lines. Build out lines rules are not all clear. I am a referee and I haven't done a game with build out lines for a bit, in general, when a GK has possession of the ball, the other team has to retreat beyond the build out line. The opponent came press the ball once the GK plays the ball. Build out line rules doesn't talk about what "playing the ball" means. Does it mean once the GK puts it on the ground? I don't know. If a referee was asking the GK to throw it or roll it, I think that's OK. If the GK placed it on the ground and quickly passed it to a teammate, I think that's OK too, but remember drop kicks are not allowed either, so the GK can't drop it and kick it on the bounce. So as much as I hate to defend RSD if he was the culprit, I can see where requesting the GK to throw or roll the ball is OK. Again, I'm sure you can find plenty of referees that 100% agree with you.

So whats the theory behind no punts or drop kicks?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the Father's Day tournament in Fairfax, a goalie picked up the ball then put it down to kick it, and the ref told him he couldn't do that and had him pick it up again. Should the coach complain to the tournament about this ref?

So based on your post in the other thread, this was a U10 game, which means they play with build out lines. Build out lines rules are not all clear. I am a referee and I haven't done a game with build out lines for a bit, in general, when a GK has possession of the ball, the other team has to retreat beyond the build out line. The opponent came press the ball once the GK plays the ball. Build out line rules doesn't talk about what "playing the ball" means. Does it mean once the GK puts it on the ground? I don't know. If a referee was asking the GK to throw it or roll it, I think that's OK. If the GK placed it on the ground and quickly passed it to a teammate, I think that's OK too, but remember drop kicks are not allowed either, so the GK can't drop it and kick it on the bounce. So as much as I hate to defend RSD if he was the culprit, I can see where requesting the GK to throw or roll the ball is OK. Again, I'm sure you can find plenty of referees that 100% agree with you.

Anonymous wrote:In the Father's Day tournament in Fairfax, a goalie picked up the ball then put it down to kick it, and the ref told him he couldn't do that and had him pick it up again. Should the coach complain to the tournament about this ref?

Anonymous wrote:At what age group? If U9 or U10, let it go.

Anonymous wrote:In the Father's Day tournament in Fairfax, a goalie picked up the ball then put it down to kick it, and the ref told him he couldn't do that and had him pick it up again. Should the coach complain to the tournament about this ref?

Anonymous wrote:In the Father's Day tournament in Fairfax, a goalie picked up the ball then put it down to kick it, and the ref told him he couldn't do that and had him pick it up again. Should the coach complain to the tournament about this ref?

Anonymous wrote:In the Father's Day tournament in Fairfax, a goalie picked up the ball then put it down to kick it, and the ref told him he couldn't do that and had him pick it up again. Should the coach complain to the tournament about this ref?