Anonymous
Post 06/17/2021 13:51     Subject: what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?
Since the pandemic began, riding Metro has been a very scary experience.
Anonymous
Post 06/17/2021 13:49     Subject: what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?
Anonymous wrote:
Prove this. Show me proof that not expanding an overburdened system provides relief to the current gridlock.
What is your solution? TO pray the traffic away? Do you take Metro? It's beyond woeful. It is NOT a viable solution. It is not a transportation system. It is a jobs program. It is not going to provide relief, it is not going to take many cars off the road. So what do you propose to deal with the CURRENT gridlock which is only going to get worse?


At this point, you're basically asking the PP to show you proof that gravity is what keeps you from floating off into space. That's how well-established the theory of induced demand is.
Anonymous
Post 06/17/2021 13:47     Subject: what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?
Anonymous wrote:

My office isn't in a central place. It's near Springfield, VA. I live in central moco. Public transit isn't a feasible option for me.


Then your choices are (a) a terrible car commute (b) find a job closer to where you live (or accessible by transit) (c) move closer to your job (d) telework (if that's possible).

I'm sorry, PP, but widening the highway with toll lanes won't make your commute better. It will just produce wider highways with more cars and just as much congestion.
Anonymous
Post 06/17/2021 13:42     Subject: what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's a recognition that

1. Widening highways for "congestion relief" only leads to more driving and more congestion
2. While also contributing to air pollution, water pollution, and greenhouse gas emissions
3. And dumping the additional cars on local roads that aren't any bigger
4. Plus the for-profit company that's supposedly going to build it will only make a profit if the "free" lanes stay backed up
5. Plus taxpayers have ended up on the hook for the projects that the for-profit company has built elsewhere
6. Plus it was unlikely to get federal approval anyway because there are alternatives that are less damaging to the environment

Other than that, though...

(And the solution to inadequate transit is to fund better and more transit.)


That makes no sense. People are going to commute regardless of whether they expand roads or not. And this area, the closer you get to DC, the more expensive it is, so people will continue moving away, especially with violent crime going up. Wishing it away isn't a sol;ution. Busses are not a solution. Metro isn't a solution. Even if they expanded metro to frederick and to Woodbridge, it still would make no difference as metro is unreliable at best. Dangerous at worse. What is the solution then?



Widening highways leads to increased traffic is pretty much a rule in road planning. There are outlier exceptions where this doesn't happen, but virtually every time you add roads you add drivers.

And if you don't widen it when it's already overburned you have gridlock. Sitting in traffic isn't going to save the planet. what is wrong with people?


Historical experience doesn't support your belief that expanding the highways will lead to people not sitting in traffic. They'll still be sitting in traffic, there'll just be more of them.

Prove this. Show me proof that not expanding an overburdened system provides relief to the current gridlock.
What is your solution? TO pray the traffic away? Do you take Metro? It's beyond woeful. It is NOT a viable solution. It is not a transportation system. It is a jobs program. It is not going to provide relief, it is not going to take many cars off the road. So what do you propose to deal with the CURRENT gridlock which is only going to get worse?
Anonymous
Post 06/17/2021 13:35     Subject: what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's a recognition that

1. Widening highways for "congestion relief" only leads to more driving and more congestion
2. While also contributing to air pollution, water pollution, and greenhouse gas emissions
3. And dumping the additional cars on local roads that aren't any bigger
4. Plus the for-profit company that's supposedly going to build it will only make a profit if the "free" lanes stay backed up
5. Plus taxpayers have ended up on the hook for the projects that the for-profit company has built elsewhere
6. Plus it was unlikely to get federal approval anyway because there are alternatives that are less damaging to the environment

Other than that, though...

(And the solution to inadequate transit is to fund better and more transit.)


That makes no sense. People are going to commute regardless of whether they expand roads or not. And this area, the closer you get to DC, the more expensive it is, so people will continue moving away, especially with violent crime going up. Wishing it away isn't a sol;ution. Busses are not a solution. Metro isn't a solution. Even if they expanded metro to frederick and to Woodbridge, it still would make no difference as metro is unreliable at best. Dangerous at worse. What is the solution then?



Widening highways leads to increased traffic is pretty much a rule in road planning. There are outlier exceptions where this doesn't happen, but virtually every time you add roads you add drivers.

And if you don't widen it when it's already overburned you have gridlock. Sitting in traffic isn't going to save the planet. what is wrong with people?


Historical experience doesn't support your belief that expanding the highways will lead to people not sitting in traffic. They'll still be sitting in traffic, there'll just be more of them.
Anonymous
Post 06/17/2021 13:34     Subject: what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's a recognition that

1. Widening highways for "congestion relief" only leads to more driving and more congestion
2. While also contributing to air pollution, water pollution, and greenhouse gas emissions
3. And dumping the additional cars on local roads that aren't any bigger
4. Plus the for-profit company that's supposedly going to build it will only make a profit if the "free" lanes stay backed up
5. Plus taxpayers have ended up on the hook for the projects that the for-profit company has built elsewhere
6. Plus it was unlikely to get federal approval anyway because there are alternatives that are less damaging to the environment

Other than that, though...

(And the solution to inadequate transit is to fund better and more transit.)


That makes no sense. People are going to commute regardless of whether they expand roads or not. And this area, the closer you get to DC, the more expensive it is, so people will continue moving away, especially with violent crime going up. Wishing it away isn't a sol;ution. Busses are not a solution. Metro isn't a solution. Even if they expanded metro to frederick and to Woodbridge, it still would make no difference as metro is unreliable at best. Dangerous at worse. What is the solution then?



Stop making everyone travel to an office in a central place to work.


My office isn't in a central place. It's near Springfield, VA. I live in central moco. Public transit isn't a feasible option for me.
Anonymous
Post 06/17/2021 13:33     Subject: what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's a recognition that

1. Widening highways for "congestion relief" only leads to more driving and more congestion
2. While also contributing to air pollution, water pollution, and greenhouse gas emissions
3. And dumping the additional cars on local roads that aren't any bigger
4. Plus the for-profit company that's supposedly going to build it will only make a profit if the "free" lanes stay backed up
5. Plus taxpayers have ended up on the hook for the projects that the for-profit company has built elsewhere
6. Plus it was unlikely to get federal approval anyway because there are alternatives that are less damaging to the environment

Other than that, though...

(And the solution to inadequate transit is to fund better and more transit.)


That makes no sense. People are going to commute regardless of whether they expand roads or not. And this area, the closer you get to DC, the more expensive it is, so people will continue moving away, especially with violent crime going up. Wishing it away isn't a sol;ution. Busses are not a solution. Metro isn't a solution. Even if they expanded metro to frederick and to Woodbridge, it still would make no difference as metro is unreliable at best. Dangerous at worse. What is the solution then?



Widening highways leads to increased traffic is pretty much a rule in road planning. There are outlier exceptions where this doesn't happen, but virtually every time you add roads you add drivers.

And if you don't widen it when it's already overburned you have gridlock. Sitting in traffic isn't going to save the planet. what is wrong with people?
Anonymous
Post 06/17/2021 13:30     Subject: what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's a recognition that

1. Widening highways for "congestion relief" only leads to more driving and more congestion
2. While also contributing to air pollution, water pollution, and greenhouse gas emissions
3. And dumping the additional cars on local roads that aren't any bigger
4. Plus the for-profit company that's supposedly going to build it will only make a profit if the "free" lanes stay backed up
5. Plus taxpayers have ended up on the hook for the projects that the for-profit company has built elsewhere
6. Plus it was unlikely to get federal approval anyway because there are alternatives that are less damaging to the environment

Other than that, though...

(And the solution to inadequate transit is to fund better and more transit.)


That makes no sense. People are going to commute regardless of whether they expand roads or not. And this area, the closer you get to DC, the more expensive it is, so people will continue moving away, especially with violent crime going up. Wishing it away isn't a sol;ution. Busses are not a solution. Metro isn't a solution. Even if they expanded metro to frederick and to Woodbridge, it still would make no difference as metro is unreliable at best. Dangerous at worse. What is the solution then?



Stop making everyone travel to an office in a central place to work.
Anonymous
Post 06/17/2021 13:27     Subject: what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's a recognition that

1. Widening highways for "congestion relief" only leads to more driving and more congestion
2. While also contributing to air pollution, water pollution, and greenhouse gas emissions
3. And dumping the additional cars on local roads that aren't any bigger
4. Plus the for-profit company that's supposedly going to build it will only make a profit if the "free" lanes stay backed up
5. Plus taxpayers have ended up on the hook for the projects that the for-profit company has built elsewhere
6. Plus it was unlikely to get federal approval anyway because there are alternatives that are less damaging to the environment

Other than that, though...

(And the solution to inadequate transit is to fund better and more transit.)


That makes no sense. People are going to commute regardless of whether they expand roads or not. And this area, the closer you get to DC, the more expensive it is, so people will continue moving away, especially with violent crime going up. Wishing it away isn't a sol;ution. Busses are not a solution. Metro isn't a solution. Even if they expanded metro to frederick and to Woodbridge, it still would make no difference as metro is unreliable at best. Dangerous at worse. What is the solution then?



Widening highways leads to increased traffic is pretty much a rule in road planning. There are outlier exceptions where this doesn't happen, but virtually every time you add roads you add drivers.
Anonymous
Post 06/17/2021 13:25     Subject: what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?
Anonymous wrote:I think they should expand it but get rid of the tolls. The fact that the county wants tolls proves they’ve lost sense.

I think moco opposed tolls. But they oppose expanding roads in any capacity. I wish the county council were required to take public transit. Then they'd stop screwing over the non elite.
Anonymous
Post 06/17/2021 13:24     Subject: what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?
Anonymous wrote:It's a recognition that

1. Widening highways for "congestion relief" only leads to more driving and more congestion
2. While also contributing to air pollution, water pollution, and greenhouse gas emissions
3. And dumping the additional cars on local roads that aren't any bigger
4. Plus the for-profit company that's supposedly going to build it will only make a profit if the "free" lanes stay backed up
5. Plus taxpayers have ended up on the hook for the projects that the for-profit company has built elsewhere
6. Plus it was unlikely to get federal approval anyway because there are alternatives that are less damaging to the environment

Other than that, though...

(And the solution to inadequate transit is to fund better and more transit.)


That makes no sense. People are going to commute regardless of whether they expand roads or not. And this area, the closer you get to DC, the more expensive it is, so people will continue moving away, especially with violent crime going up. Wishing it away isn't a sol;ution. Busses are not a solution. Metro isn't a solution. Even if they expanded metro to frederick and to Woodbridge, it still would make no difference as metro is unreliable at best. Dangerous at worse. What is the solution then?

Anonymous
Post 06/17/2021 13:20     Subject: what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?
I think they should expand it but get rid of the tolls. The fact that the county wants tolls proves they’ve lost sense.
Anonymous
Post 06/17/2021 13:17     Subject: what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?
It's a recognition that

1. Widening highways for "congestion relief" only leads to more driving and more congestion
2. While also contributing to air pollution, water pollution, and greenhouse gas emissions
3. And dumping the additional cars on local roads that aren't any bigger
4. Plus the for-profit company that's supposedly going to build it will only make a profit if the "free" lanes stay backed up
5. Plus taxpayers have ended up on the hook for the projects that the for-profit company has built elsewhere
6. Plus it was unlikely to get federal approval anyway because there are alternatives that are less damaging to the environment

Other than that, though...

(And the solution to inadequate transit is to fund better and more transit.)
Anonymous
Post 06/17/2021 12:54     Subject: what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?
I heard a politician on the radio say re: opposing expanding 270, that it doesn't address social and environmental justice. These people are insane. Like they should be institutionalized. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to sit in traffic hours every day to "own the cons". These people are deranged.
Anonymous
Post 06/17/2021 12:53     Subject: what's with local pols opposing expanding 270 and 495?
I know they want everyone but them to take the bus, but it's not realistic. WMATA is woefully inadequate and dangerous. The bus isn't a viable option for many people especially if they have to work in another state. Having people sit in traffic isn't going to "save the planet" especially as more people move further out. They just don't expect to be in office when the consequences are full to see and traffic just gets far worse than the hell it currently is?