Anonymous wrote:I vote for no more essay and kids can only take the SAT/ACT once.

Why only once for SAT/ACT? Low income kids can get fee waivers.

Ironically, when you remove MOST metrics of evaluation from the college admission process - test scores, essays, (and I'm assuming grades are next - the advantage will just shift back to "who you know."

Parents and kids who are smart and ambitious, regardless of income, will always find a way to make ANY system work in their favor.

I vote for no more essay and kids can only take the SAT/ACT once.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there are no tests and no essays and grades are fairly subjective...then it's a lottery and what happens to the kids who lottery into MIT but don't make it? $50k/year mistake? This is not good.

Except the schools always adapt to the student body because they can't survive if everyone fails out.

I guess...but it seems like there has to be some sort of baseline. Is it just going to be that you've taken certain classes? AP classes are going away too--so how will they judge student A with "advanced calculus" vs. student B with "honors calculus"?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eventually there will be heavy push back from things like this.

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2021/06/01/do-college-application-essays-favor-wealthier-students

Makes sense to me.

Of course we can just go to lottery admissions in the future. But if you study history, it's the attack on education that will eventually crumble a society.

Not lottery. Based on skin color.

Anonymous wrote:The essay is the worst part. There is no way to tell who wrote it, who revised it, or how much the kid paid for either process. There is an entire industry based around 'helping' kids write these essays. They are most reflective of how much parents had to spend and how talented the advisor is

This is becoming clear. The essay is much easier to game than the testing.

Anonymous wrote:If there are no tests and no essays and grades are fairly subjective...then it's a lottery and what happens to the kids who lottery into MIT but don't make it? $50k/year mistake? This is not good.

Except the schools always adapt to the student body because they can't survive if everyone fails out.

Anonymous wrote:Eventually there will be heavy push back from things like this.

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2021/06/01/do-college-application-essays-favor-wealthier-students

The problem here is regarding wealth purely as an input/cause rather than also as an output/result. The fact is, wealth is strongly correlated with the capability of the earner, and these earners in turn provide resources to help their offspring excel academically. The capability of the parent is the input/cause, and wealth is the outcome of that capability. All else being equal, a kid who has had access to these resources is better prepared than one who does not. If we say that it's unfair for kids to have received additional preparation, then by that same logic, it's also unfair that kids go to college at all - because some don't. Why should those who went to college earn a better salary since college attendance is strongly correlated with family wealth. Ironically, here's an article on exactly this topic from the same source:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/05/23/feds-release-broader-data-socioeconomic-status-and-college-enrollment-and-completion

So, what's the end game here?

It makes more sense to get rid of essays when so many rich people hire help for their kids than it does to get rid of a standardized test the kid has to take alone. Especially since there are so many free test prep resources.

The essay is the worst part. There is no way to tell who wrote it, who revised it, or how much the kid paid for either process. There is an entire industry based around 'helping' kids write these essays. They are most reflective of how much parents had to spend and how talented the advisor is

If there are no tests and no essays and grades are fairly subjective...then it's a lottery and what happens to the kids who lottery into MIT but don't make it? $50k/year mistake? This is not good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eventually there will be heavy push back from things like this.

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2021/06/01/do-college-application-essays-favor-wealthier-students

Makes sense to me.

Of course we can just go to lottery admissions in the future. But if you study history, it's the attack on education that will eventually crumble a society.

This strikes me as rather stupid. The essay is perhaps the only way to get a feel for the kid, and their "voice."

Anonymous wrote:Eventually there will be heavy push back from things like this.

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2021/06/01/do-college-application-essays-favor-wealthier-students

Makes sense to me.

Eventually there will be heavy push back from things like this.

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2021/06/01/do-college-application-essays-favor-wealthier-students