Anonymous
03/30/2021 16:01
Subject: Why is the overcrowding issue so complex?
Anonymous wrote:It's complex because OOB families want feeder rights. And there are a lot of OOB families, all over the city, pushing their councilmembers to preserve feeder rights. Whereas the people who want to end feeder rights are clustered in Ward 3, meaning 7 other ward reps can ignore them and the at-large councilmembers can win an election without their support.
I think feeder rights should end: if you get into an ES OOB, you have a right to stay there through 5th. That would also help many EOTP schools where people are happy but leave for a better MS feed, and it would be good for people who move to DC when their kids are a little older. As a compromise, students from feeder schools could get a lottery preference if they want to go to their destination school. Better would be if it were an at-risk feeder preference and then a non-at-risk. They could also phase out the preference over time: kids in grades 3-8 and when the rules change have feeder rights, kids in PK3-2 have feeder preference, kids not yet at an OOB school have no right or preference and their parents can lottery accordingly.
And yes, on top of this route Bancroft to MacFarland and Roosevelt. Either send Adams to Roosevelt too, or make Oyster-Adams a PK3-5 school across two campuses (like Peabody and Watkins) and send the middle schoolers to MacFarland too. All the dual language schools should have the same feeder pattern. This would also allow for more seats in bilingual programs and more PK classrooms WOTP where there are long waitlists now.
make all high schools lottery and eliminate the concept of inbounds- there, crowding at the high school level gets alleviated and Wilson becomes more diverse
Anonymous
03/30/2021 15:26
Subject: Why is the overcrowding issue so complex?
It's complex because OOB families want feeder rights. And there are a lot of OOB families, all over the city, pushing their councilmembers to preserve feeder rights. Whereas the people who want to end feeder rights are clustered in Ward 3, meaning 7 other ward reps can ignore them and the at-large councilmembers can win an election without their support.
I think feeder rights should end: if you get into an ES OOB, you have a right to stay there through 5th. That would also help many EOTP schools where people are happy but leave for a better MS feed, and it would be good for people who move to DC when their kids are a little older. As a compromise, students from feeder schools could get a lottery preference if they want to go to their destination school. Better would be if it were an at-risk feeder preference and then a non-at-risk. They could also phase out the preference over time: kids in grades 3-8 and when the rules change have feeder rights, kids in PK3-2 have feeder preference, kids not yet at an OOB school have no right or preference and their parents can lottery accordingly.
And yes, on top of this route Bancroft to MacFarland and Roosevelt. Either send Adams to Roosevelt too, or make Oyster-Adams a PK3-5 school across two campuses (like Peabody and Watkins) and send the middle schoolers to MacFarland too. All the dual language schools should have the same feeder pattern. This would also allow for more seats in bilingual programs and more PK classrooms WOTP where there are long waitlists now.
I think feeder rights should end: if you get into an ES OOB, you have a right to stay there through 5th. That would also help many EOTP schools where people are happy but leave for a better MS feed, and it would be good for people who move to DC when their kids are a little older. As a compromise, students from feeder schools could get a lottery preference if they want to go to their destination school. Better would be if it were an at-risk feeder preference and then a non-at-risk. They could also phase out the preference over time: kids in grades 3-8 and when the rules change have feeder rights, kids in PK3-2 have feeder preference, kids not yet at an OOB school have no right or preference and their parents can lottery accordingly.
And yes, on top of this route Bancroft to MacFarland and Roosevelt. Either send Adams to Roosevelt too, or make Oyster-Adams a PK3-5 school across two campuses (like Peabody and Watkins) and send the middle schoolers to MacFarland too. All the dual language schools should have the same feeder pattern. This would also allow for more seats in bilingual programs and more PK classrooms WOTP where there are long waitlists now.
Anonymous
03/30/2021 15:09
Subject: Why is the overcrowding issue so complex?
Anonymous wrote:
Take Bancroft and MArie Reed out of Oyster middle schools feed. Put them in MacFarland.
Marie Reed and Bancroft do not feed to Oyster middle (Adams). Only Oyster feeds to Adams, which feeds to Wilson.
Bancroft feeds to Deal. Marie Reed feeds to MacFarland/CHEC/Cardozo (not sure exactly how that works, but certainly not Adams).
Anonymous
03/30/2021 14:58
Subject: Why is the overcrowding issue so complex?
Because it is race.
And race makes things complicated.
The boundaries are not just about keeping white areas white, they are about keeping black/brown areas black/brown.
It should be complicated. Because it is wrong
And race makes things complicated.
The boundaries are not just about keeping white areas white, they are about keeping black/brown areas black/brown.
It should be complicated. Because it is wrong
Anonymous
03/30/2021 14:52
Subject: Why is the overcrowding issue so complex?
Its not complex, its driven by parents, mainly in Ward 3 who complain about overcrowding but also don't want to moved out of their current school to even another school in Ward 3.
Feeder rights-started under Michelle Rhee-this creates a huge problem and was meant to give more kids certainty of opportunity through hgih school. No one expected how many upper class parents woudl stick with Deal and Wilson. Bascially, there should be no more out of bounds kids in Ward 3 elem school.
Expand the boundary for Hardy, and take at least 500 kids out of deal and put them in Hardy. (see my first parents about parents pushing back).
No one thinks twice about sending kids from Mnt Pleasant and Shepard Park across the park to Ward 3 schools, But why aren't we sending Ward 3 schools back across the park into Wards 1, and 4 for school?
Take Bancroft and MArie Reed out of Oyster middle schools feed. Put them in MacFarland.
Feeder rights-started under Michelle Rhee-this creates a huge problem and was meant to give more kids certainty of opportunity through hgih school. No one expected how many upper class parents woudl stick with Deal and Wilson. Bascially, there should be no more out of bounds kids in Ward 3 elem school.
Expand the boundary for Hardy, and take at least 500 kids out of deal and put them in Hardy. (see my first parents about parents pushing back).
No one thinks twice about sending kids from Mnt Pleasant and Shepard Park across the park to Ward 3 schools, But why aren't we sending Ward 3 schools back across the park into Wards 1, and 4 for school?
Take Bancroft and MArie Reed out of Oyster middle schools feed. Put them in MacFarland.
Anonymous
03/30/2021 13:37
Subject: Re:Why is the overcrowding issue so complex?
Hearst, Bancroft and shepherd are the most diverse elementary schools feeding into Deal. If keeping Deal diverse is a priority, it would make sense to move some of the other feeder schools instead.
However everyone I have talked to is wildly in support of a new high school where the current Hardy middle school is located. Wilson is really huge, as the only high school west of the park. Both hardy and deal feed into it. Another high school off of the Wisconsin Ave corridor which allows east bus access would be ideal.
However everyone I have talked to is wildly in support of a new high school where the current Hardy middle school is located. Wilson is really huge, as the only high school west of the park. Both hardy and deal feed into it. Another high school off of the Wisconsin Ave corridor which allows east bus access would be ideal.
Anonymous
03/30/2021 13:07
Subject: Re:Why is the overcrowding issue so complex?
We're at Hearst ES and one of the proposals involves us getting moved to Hardy for MS, which is good by me.
It just seems strange from a logistical perspective though. We'd be increasing the commute from 1 mile to 2 miles (from Hearst to Deal v. Hardy), but leaving Bancroft and Shepherd as is, which are both 3-4 miles away from Deal. It seems like the net result would be one elementary school gets a longer commute and Wilson is still really overcrowded?
I like the general idea of a Foxhall/McArthur MS and some reshuffling to even out the new school, Deal, and Hardy. That makes sense in theory. But I'm real confused as to why another HS isn't part of this plan, especially for feeder schools that are nowhere near Wilson as is?
It just seems strange from a logistical perspective though. We'd be increasing the commute from 1 mile to 2 miles (from Hearst to Deal v. Hardy), but leaving Bancroft and Shepherd as is, which are both 3-4 miles away from Deal. It seems like the net result would be one elementary school gets a longer commute and Wilson is still really overcrowded?
I like the general idea of a Foxhall/McArthur MS and some reshuffling to even out the new school, Deal, and Hardy. That makes sense in theory. But I'm real confused as to why another HS isn't part of this plan, especially for feeder schools that are nowhere near Wilson as is?
Anonymous
03/30/2021 12:20
Subject: Why is the overcrowding issue so complex?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is very simple and they don't want to do it because it would make the school system way more segregated than it already is, there would be so much blowback politically. This should be obvious to you.
But there are set aside seats for at-risk students and Bancroft and Shepherd are diverse enough to not give off a segregation feel.
DCPS has to plan for the long term and Bancroft and Shepherd may become less diverse. And it would make Wilson less diverse overall. It may be that the OOB population at Bancroft and Shepherd is more diverse than the IB population, I don't know. Bottom line, you might be okay with the school system becoming more segregated but DCPS and the Mayor clearly are not.
The question is which way is it trending.
I imagine IB vs. OOB are pretty close in terms of diversity at Shepherd— I know several white OOB families.
Anonymous
03/30/2021 12:13
Subject: Why is the overcrowding issue so complex?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is very simple and they don't want to do it because it would make the school system way more segregated than it already is, there would be so much blowback politically. This should be obvious to you.
But there are set aside seats for at-risk students and Bancroft and Shepherd are diverse enough to not give off a segregation feel.
DCPS has to plan for the long term and Bancroft and Shepherd may become less diverse. And it would make Wilson less diverse overall. It may be that the OOB population at Bancroft and Shepherd is more diverse than the IB population, I don't know. Bottom line, you might be okay with the school system becoming more segregated but DCPS and the Mayor clearly are not.
I imagine IB vs. OOB are pretty close in terms of diversity at Shepherd— I know several white OOB families.
Anonymous
03/30/2021 12:13
Subject: Why is the overcrowding issue so complex?
The problem is the residential segregation is so strong. The housing has sorted such that neighborhood schools in very few parts of the city would be segregated.
The schools get full because they are neighborhood schools and attract out of boundary students. Without those students only some are full or close. But the pull factor of those schools is likely to continue.
The issue in my opinion is that people in those wards get the advantage of neighborhood schools full of children of educated parents with money AND they can get resources for the same schools based on other students’ from the rest of DC’s demand for the advantages those schools can provide.
They’ll never suffer underenrollment hurting staffing or class offerings or enrichment. Whereas the schools across the rest of DC often fight for numbers in a vicious cycle. And have to spend more to get kids ready. And can’t attract middle class kids if they have relatively limited class offerings.
The schools get full because they are neighborhood schools and attract out of boundary students. Without those students only some are full or close. But the pull factor of those schools is likely to continue.
The issue in my opinion is that people in those wards get the advantage of neighborhood schools full of children of educated parents with money AND they can get resources for the same schools based on other students’ from the rest of DC’s demand for the advantages those schools can provide.
They’ll never suffer underenrollment hurting staffing or class offerings or enrichment. Whereas the schools across the rest of DC often fight for numbers in a vicious cycle. And have to spend more to get kids ready. And can’t attract middle class kids if they have relatively limited class offerings.
Anonymous
03/30/2021 12:07
Subject: Why is the overcrowding issue so complex?
They know that everyone whose kid lotteries into Shepard and then is forced out of the pyramid for middle and high is going to vote against whoever they view as responsible. It does nothing that alienate people. As far as overcrowding at deal, Hardy and Wilson- if DCPS officials were honest, do you really think that they would view overcrowding (i.e. more kids attending) DC's best schools as a problem?
Anonymous
03/30/2021 12:06
Subject: Why is the overcrowding issue so complex?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is very simple and they don't want to do it because it would make the school system way more segregated than it already is, there would be so much blowback politically. This should be obvious to you.
But there are set aside seats for at-risk students and Bancroft and Shepherd are diverse enough to not give off a segregation feel.
DCPS has to plan for the long term and Bancroft and Shepherd may become less diverse. And it would make Wilson less diverse overall. It may be that the OOB population at Bancroft and Shepherd is more diverse than the IB population, I don't know. Bottom line, you might be okay with the school system becoming more segregated but DCPS and the Mayor clearly are not.
Anonymous
03/30/2021 12:01
Subject: Why is the overcrowding issue so complex?
Anonymous wrote:It is very simple and they don't want to do it because it would make the school system way more segregated than it already is, there would be so much blowback politically. This should be obvious to you.
But there are set aside seats for at-risk students and Bancroft and Shepherd are diverse enough to not give off a segregation feel.
Anonymous
03/30/2021 11:59
Subject: Why is the overcrowding issue so complex?
It is very simple and they don't want to do it because it would make the school system way more segregated than it already is, there would be so much blowback politically. This should be obvious to you.
Anonymous
03/30/2021 11:57
Subject: Why is the overcrowding issue so complex?
I posted in the ANC Foxhall thread, but will post my comment here.
Why hasn’t DCPS looked into how many students attend Ward 3 schools, Shepherd and Bancroft that are OOB? Once those figures come in, then look to see what percentage of those kids would eliminate the overcrowding of those schools? If it’s a significant amount, then those families would need to lottery for Deal, Hardy and Wilson.
This seems like a simple task that should be understandable to those families OOB. I say this as an OOB parent who kids attend Bancroft. I guess my kids would have to attend MacFarland if faced with this decision.
Why hasn’t DCPS looked into how many students attend Ward 3 schools, Shepherd and Bancroft that are OOB? Once those figures come in, then look to see what percentage of those kids would eliminate the overcrowding of those schools? If it’s a significant amount, then those families would need to lottery for Deal, Hardy and Wilson.
This seems like a simple task that should be understandable to those families OOB. I say this as an OOB parent who kids attend Bancroft. I guess my kids would have to attend MacFarland if faced with this decision.