Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 12:07     Subject: Pope says no to blessing same-sex unions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Two things. There are already priests in the DMV performing same-sex ceremonies on the down-low. This is not a too well kept secret.
Also, with President Biden being the most visible example of a faithful highly devout Catholic who holds progressive beliefs, I think the Church is changing from the bottom up. The Church’s old male hierarchy has to parrot the catechism, but I think most Catholics simply ignore them at this point.
It’s disappointing though because we saw Pope Francis as an agent of progressive radically needed change in the Church but he’s mostly proved to be as sadly conservative as his predecessors Benedict and John Paul II.


The ceremonies aren’t valid, but if they want to wave their hands in front a couple, that’s up to them. If you don’t accept the authority of the magisterium and the Pope, you’re a Protestant. Just own it.


No, this is not good enough. The CDF takes the time to write these statements for good reason: to justify their decisions. In doing so, they open up their reasoning to debate. If they expected us to accept authority blindly and without debate, there would be no point to it all.

We know the Church has made mistakes before, and they are making them again. The Church is not infallible (er, unless it declares itself to be infallible, which it seldom does.) The entire doctrine goes back to Gaudium et Spes, and if you read it as you would a scholarly paper, it does not hold up in this particular issue.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 12:06     Subject: Pope says no to blessing same-sex unions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Until the church teaches that sex is not just for pro-creation, there is not going to be acceptance of gay marriage.


It teaches that sex is ordered toward procreation. It’s more nuanced than you give it credit for. Infertile couples aren’t doing anything wrong.


"Ordered Toward" is an artful way of picking and choosing which people can have sex, and in what ways. You won't be seeing encyclicals on blowjobs.


???
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 12:01     Subject: Pope says no to blessing same-sex unions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Until the church teaches that sex is not just for pro-creation, there is not going to be acceptance of gay marriage.


It teaches that sex is ordered toward procreation. It’s more nuanced than you give it credit for. Infertile couples aren’t doing anything wrong.


"Ordered Toward" is an artful way of picking and choosing which people can have sex, and in what ways. You won't be seeing encyclicals on blowjobs.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 11:44     Subject: Pope says no to blessing same-sex unions
Another reason I am not Catholic.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 11:00     Subject: Pope says no to blessing same-sex unions
Anonymous wrote:Two things. There are already priests in the DMV performing same-sex ceremonies on the down-low. This is not a too well kept secret.
Also, with President Biden being the most visible example of a faithful highly devout Catholic who holds progressive beliefs, I think the Church is changing from the bottom up. The Church’s old male hierarchy has to parrot the catechism, but I think most Catholics simply ignore them at this point.
It’s disappointing though because we saw Pope Francis as an agent of progressive radically needed change in the Church but he’s mostly proved to be as sadly conservative as his predecessors Benedict and John Paul II.


The ceremonies aren’t valid, but if they want to wave their hands in front a couple, that’s up to them. If you don’t accept the authority of the magisterium and the Pope, you’re a Protestant. Just own it.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 10:53     Subject: Pope says no to blessing same-sex unions
Two things. There are already priests in the DMV performing same-sex ceremonies on the down-low. This is not a too well kept secret.
Also, with President Biden being the most visible example of a faithful highly devout Catholic who holds progressive beliefs, I think the Church is changing from the bottom up. The Church’s old male hierarchy has to parrot the catechism, but I think most Catholics simply ignore them at this point.
It’s disappointing though because we saw Pope Francis as an agent of progressive radically needed change in the Church but he’s mostly proved to be as sadly conservative as his predecessors Benedict and John Paul II.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 10:53     Subject: Pope says no to blessing same-sex unions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Until the church teaches that sex is not just for pro-creation, there is not going to be acceptance of gay marriage.


It teaches that sex is ordered toward procreation. It’s more nuanced than you give it credit for. Infertile couples aren’t doing anything wrong.


and the rhythm method isn't wrong either. In fact the Church invented it for people who didn't want to risk getting pregnant all the time.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 10:41     Subject: Pope says no to blessing same-sex unions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Until the church teaches that sex is not just for pro-creation, there is not going to be acceptance of gay marriage.


It teaches that sex is ordered toward procreation. It’s more nuanced than you give it credit for. Infertile couples aren’t doing anything wrong.


That’s a dubious distinction. It’s time for the Church to nuance itself out of existence.


Don’t hold your breath.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 10:40     Subject: Pope says no to blessing same-sex unions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Until the church teaches that sex is not just for pro-creation, there is not going to be acceptance of gay marriage.


It teaches that sex is ordered toward procreation. It’s more nuanced than you give it credit for. Infertile couples aren’t doing anything wrong.


That’s a dubious distinction. It’s time for the Church to nuance itself out of existence.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 10:36     Subject: Pope says no to blessing same-sex unions
Anonymous wrote:Until the church teaches that sex is not just for pro-creation, there is not going to be acceptance of gay marriage.


It teaches that sex is ordered toward procreation. It’s more nuanced than you give it credit for. Infertile couples aren’t doing anything wrong.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 10:34     Subject: Pope says no to blessing same-sex unions
Anonymous wrote:
The “natural order” involves might over right, oppression and murder in multiple species, including Homo Sapiens, so if I were you I’d find another argument

- biologist


+1. I get that it’s just a slogan but saying “it’s natural” or “born this way!” doesn’t get you anywhere. Psychopaths are also born that way. And the slogan doesn’t even make any sense for all LGBTIAQ+.... issues. Transgender people are... born with the wrong genitalia apparently so they can’t shout “born this way!” If you disagree with the Catholic Church, that’s 100% fine but its theology may be more consistent than your personal philosophy.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 09:17     Subject: Pope says no to blessing same-sex unions
Until the church teaches that sex is not just for pro-creation, there is not going to be acceptance of gay marriage.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 09:17     Subject: Pope says no to blessing same-sex unions

The “natural order” involves might over right, oppression and murder in multiple species, including Homo Sapiens, so if I were you I’d find another argument

- biologist
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 09:14     Subject: Pope says no to blessing same-sex unions
Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pope-same-sex-unions-licit/2021/03/15/8c51ee80-8581-11eb-be4a-24b89f616f2c_story.html

I can't say I am surprised, but it is another failure of the church to acknowledge science, namely that homosexuality is part of the natural order, and therefore it is part of God's plan.


The Church eventually accepted that the earth moved around the sun, so it's likely that it will eventually accept homosexuality.

Just don't expect it any time soon, even though many Catholic priests are themselves homosexual.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2021 08:23     Subject: Pope says no to blessing same-sex unions
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pope-same-sex-unions-licit/2021/03/15/8c51ee80-8581-11eb-be4a-24b89f616f2c_story.html

I can't say I am surprised, but it is another failure of the church to acknowledge science, namely that homosexuality is part of the natural order, and therefore it is part of God's plan.