The fact you all use the word prestige and elite when discussing Education says it all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Ivy League is a sports category. There are hundreds of excellent colleges and universities in the U.S. It is a giant country.

It’s clear that the Ivy League has grown in the popular imagination to be more than just a sports league. It’s become a sort of designation or a shorthand for prestigious, top universities. Laypeople are rarely sure of which schools actually constitute the Ivy League, except for Harvard and Yale. Most also assume Stanford is one. I’ve met college basketball enthusiasts who thought Duke was an Ivy, and I know college football fans who assumed Northwestern was an Ivy. It’s a colloquialism that’s anchored in a slightly different reality from what most people think.

Well then they’re just ignorant.

Anonymous wrote:Can I be the person who asks how Duke made it onto OP’s list?

I agree it’s severely overrated but it’s built a reputation through its basketball program.

Anonymous wrote:Can I be the person who asks how Duke made it onto OP’s list?

Or Berkeley omitted.

Can I be the person who asks how Duke made it onto OP’s list?

Hey OP:

- Nobody who knows anything thinks only the Ivy League has good colleges. Everybody knows Stanford and MIT are "more prestigious" than Cornell, for example. I'm not saying you won't find someone who will disagree with that, but it will be a rarity, and they will be mis-informed.

- More importantly, nobody cares but idiots who like to say things like "The Ivy League is just a sports league!" - which is a stupid thing to say and only said by those with issues abut the ivy league.

- Those with kids in the Ivy League - and I am one - know that those schools have flaws also and no college is perfect. Most of us would be just as proud if our kid was at U Chicago, Williams, Michigan, or (gasp!) UVA. We know the US is blessed with hundreds of good colleges and it is possible our kid would have a better experience and outcome elsewhere.

It's only the Ivy League haters that have Ivy League issues.

I repeat:

It's only the Ivy League haters that have Ivy League issues.

OK, OP. I partly agree with you. But you don't go nearly far enough. You want to maintain the façade that there is a strict hierarchy, but you want to quibble about the order. I would say that there really is no hierarchy.

First of all, there are probably around 500 schools in the US with high enough overall quality that even the brightest kids cannot learn everything and cannot exhaust the opportunities presented to them. The job market in academics is so bad that the professors at secondary and tertiary public colleges got their PhDs right alongside the professors at Ivy League schools. There just isn't room for all of them at the most selective schools, so they go where they can get jobs.

Secondly, I dispute the notion that there is such a thing as "prestigious" undergrad. I care about where people went to grad school, where they did their post-doc or fellowship (though even then, it is more about WHO they trained under, than where they did it), and subsequent work experience. Unless they were trying to make conversation about people we might know, or football rivalry, I would find it sort of pathetic if they tried to brag about undergrad. Like bragging about graduating high school. Sort of expected. Any field where a bachelor's degree is terminal is not really particularly "prestigious". Any field where a higher degree is required, people only care about your higher degree.

So, just go to a school where you will learn the most, be happy and can afford. It is not so hard.

Is this a thread that needs to exist? Is there a real problem with Stanford and MIT alumni not being viewed as smart/accomplished enough because they don't have Ivy degrees? Would that even be a problem if it were true?

Anonymous wrote:The Ivy League is a sports category. There are hundreds of excellent colleges and universities in the U.S. It is a giant country.

It’s clear that the Ivy League has grown in the popular imagination to be more than just a sports league. It’s become a sort of designation or a shorthand for prestigious, top universities. Laypeople are rarely sure of which schools actually constitute the Ivy League, except for Harvard and Yale. Most also assume Stanford is one. I’ve met college basketball enthusiasts who thought Duke was an Ivy, and I know college football fans who assumed Northwestern was an Ivy. It’s a colloquialism that’s anchored in a slightly different reality from what most people think.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

Whether they are just as good is very different than if they are just as prestigious.

The fact that so many people -- many of whom are very familiar with American colleges even if they come to conclusions you disagree with -- view the Ivy League as top shows their prestige above and beyond most other schools. There is generally broad recognition that there are some schools (e.g., Stanford or MIT) that are as prestigious or more than certain Ivies (e.g., Cornell, PENN), but I don't think that extends to all on your list.

Stanford and MIT aren’t merely “as prestigious” as Cornell or Penn. That feels like a clear Ivy bias not rooted in reality.

Thus “or more than”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

Whether they are just as good is very different than if they are just as prestigious.

The fact that so many people -- many of whom are very familiar with American colleges even if they come to conclusions you disagree with -- view the Ivy League as top shows their prestige above and beyond most other schools. There is generally broad recognition that there are some schools (e.g., Stanford or MIT) that are as prestigious or more than certain Ivies (e.g., Cornell, PENN), but I don't think that extends to all on your list.

Stanford and MIT aren’t merely “as prestigious” as Cornell or Penn. That feels like a clear Ivy bias not rooted in reality.

This is pretty obvious as most college rankings don’t award the top 7 slots to the Ivy League school.

Anonymous wrote:Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.

Whether they are just as good is very different than if they are just as prestigious.

The fact that so many people -- many of whom are very familiar with American colleges even if they come to conclusions you disagree with -- view the Ivy League as top shows their prestige above and beyond most other schools. There is generally broad recognition that there are some schools (e.g., Stanford or MIT) that are as prestigious or more than certain Ivies (e.g., Cornell, PENN), but I don't think that extends to all on your list.

The Ivy League is a sports category. There are hundreds of excellent colleges and universities in the U.S. It is a giant country.

Coming across the JHU thread and it’s clear there are some people unfamiliar with American colleges who think Ivy League = the best. It is worth repeating that there are just as many universities NOT in the Ivy League that are just as good and just as prestigious as the Ivies.

Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Cal Tech, JHU, Northwestern, Duke

If we expand to LACS, add Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona.

If these schools were to just start their own separate academic “league,” they would rival the Ivy League, easily.