Anonymous
12/21/2020 14:17
Subject: I thought I knew what homophobic meant...but now its changed?
Anonymous wrote:Homophobic to me means: an intense fear or distaste for all persons and topics homosexual, possibly due (but not necessarily due) to repressed same sex attraction.
I know homophobes exist. I have not yet had the misfortune of meeting one.
What I see a lot, though, is the term being used immediately without any such burden of proof whatsoever. So, when a parent merely said that perhaps their child was confused about being gay or bi, the use of the word "confused" was enough for another poster to speculate they were homophobic, despite the posters explanation, and then someone else jumped in to confirm that the post was "definitely" homophobic.
I am not the OP of that thread, but seeing it reminded me of other similar things Ive seen elsewhere, so I wanted to ask
Has the term homophobic come to encompass something like, say, a parent assuming their child is straight (from observation/missing other cues, whatever the reason) and then expressing uncertainty the child is accurate in saying they are gay or bi?
Would it be ok for a person who is gay with a child they assumed to be gay (based on observation/missing other cues, whatever the reason) to express uncertainty their child is accurate in saying they are straight?
Because for some reason it seems that parental observation and bias are being equated, and I feel or at least I hope any actual parent would understand these things are always the same. They CAN be, but they must not always be.
You miss a third scenario: straight parents who question if their straight child is actually gay. Here is the thing. This rarely happens. We only think kids are confused or unsure if they are saying they are gay, not hetero. Parental observation can and is often conflated with parental bias.
We use confirmation bias to seek out the things we already believe...the time our son blushed when a girl talked to him, or the crush our daughter had when she was 9 on the neighbor boy. We miss other signs because we don't want to see them, then question our kids when they express themselves.
It is homophobic to a degree to question only when they are outside the norm, and THEN, as in other threads, claim the kid os confused because being gay is trendy. Can you see that while that may not be openly bigoted and hateful, it is offensive?
Anonymous
12/21/2020 14:07
Subject: I thought I knew what homophobic meant...but now its changed?
OP here, I think what I see that is really troubling too is people who grew up as gay allies and are now adults in their 50's are being routinely schooled on how they apparently know nothing about inclusivity and are secretly homophobic or somehow just generally unaware.
This is why I am trying to just get at what makes a "maybe" question absolutely homophobic.
This is why I am trying to just get at what makes a "maybe" question absolutely homophobic.
Anonymous
12/21/2020 13:59
Subject: Re:I thought I knew what homophobic meant...but now its changed?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Come on now, OP. Like racism, homophobia isn't always overt. In many cases, yes, a parent saying their child is confused about being gay or bi does come from a place of homophobia.
I didnt say a parent said their child IS confused, but that they MIGHT be confused. That is a big difference.
Being open minded means allowing for a "maybe". THe presentation was not at all that being one way or another was not acceptable. The sense I got was that merely asking the question as to whether the child is confused was being equated with being homophobic PERIOD. I dont get it.
Do people also wonder if their straight kids are confused? Since you seem to think this question is just a totally normal question with no negative bias.
Im sure its happened! Esp. if the parent had reason to think otherwise!
And esp if the parents remember identifying as straight as a child to not get negative reactions!
Anonymous
12/21/2020 13:58
Subject: I thought I knew what homophobic meant...but now its changed?
Anonymous wrote:It's always been used to mean hatred of gay people. Even though we all know damn well "phobia" means "Fear of".
No, now it means things like Catholic adoption agencies have to let place children with two daddies or they can’t place children at all.
Anonymous
12/21/2020 13:57
Subject: Re:I thought I knew what homophobic meant...but now its changed?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Come on now, OP. Like racism, homophobia isn't always overt. In many cases, yes, a parent saying their child is confused about being gay or bi does come from a place of homophobia.
I didnt say a parent said their child IS confused, but that they MIGHT be confused. That is a big difference.
Being open minded means allowing for a "maybe". THe presentation was not at all that being one way or another was not acceptable. The sense I got was that merely asking the question as to whether the child is confused was being equated with being homophobic PERIOD. I dont get it.
Do people also wonder if their straight kids are confused? Since you seem to think this question is just a totally normal question with no negative bias.
Im sure its happened! Esp. if the parent had reason to think otherwise!
Anonymous
12/21/2020 13:57
Subject: I thought I knew what homophobic meant...but now its changed?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have seen a change too OP. I think the way things are moving, it is watering down the REAL homophobic experiences some have had to endure.
Not sure about this specific topic, but it’s certainly true of a lot of other topics (race, sexual harassment, hate, religion). They are used to shutdown conversation. Few people seem able to handle discussing topics anymore. It is always about winning an argument or shutting the other person down.
+1 Agreed
Anonymous
12/21/2020 13:55
Subject: Re:I thought I knew what homophobic meant...but now its changed?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Come on now, OP. Like racism, homophobia isn't always overt. In many cases, yes, a parent saying their child is confused about being gay or bi does come from a place of homophobia.
I didnt say a parent said their child IS confused, but that they MIGHT be confused. That is a big difference.
Being open minded means allowing for a "maybe". THe presentation was not at all that being one way or another was not acceptable. The sense I got was that merely asking the question as to whether the child is confused was being equated with being homophobic PERIOD. I dont get it.
Do people also wonder if their straight kids are confused? Since you seem to think this question is just a totally normal question with no negative bias.
Anonymous
12/21/2020 13:55
Subject: I thought I knew what homophobic meant...but now its changed?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have seen a change too OP. I think the way things are moving, it is watering down the REAL homophobic experiences some have had to endure.
Not sure about this specific topic, but it’s certainly true of a lot of other topics (race, sexual harassment, hate, religion). They are used to shutdown conversation. Few people seem able to handle discussing topics anymore. It is always about winning an argument or shutting the other person down.
OP here. And this all concerns me, as a parent, that I now have to warn my bi identifying daughter about presuming inclusion in certain communities, lest she be one word away from being called homophobic, transphobic, etc.
I see a lot of name calling that is fast and right on desktop. Like being said here, to shut down conversations. Increasing the need for safe and private conversations among like minded persons....which was what going onto forums was supposed to make easier not harder.
Anonymous
12/21/2020 13:53
Subject: I thought I knew what homophobic meant...but now its changed?
It's always been used to mean hatred of gay people. Even though we all know damn well "phobia" means "Fear of".
Anonymous
12/21/2020 13:52
Subject: Re:I thought I knew what homophobic meant...but now its changed?
Anonymous wrote:Come on now, OP. Like racism, homophobia isn't always overt. In many cases, yes, a parent saying their child is confused about being gay or bi does come from a place of homophobia.
I didnt say a parent said their child IS confused, but that they MIGHT be confused. That is a big difference.
Being open minded means allowing for a "maybe". THe presentation was not at all that being one way or another was not acceptable. The sense I got was that merely asking the question as to whether the child is confused was being equated with being homophobic PERIOD. I dont get it.
Anonymous
12/21/2020 13:08
Subject: Re:I thought I knew what homophobic meant...but now its changed?
Come on now, OP. Like racism, homophobia isn't always overt. In many cases, yes, a parent saying their child is confused about being gay or bi does come from a place of homophobia.
Anonymous
12/21/2020 13:03
Subject: I thought I knew what homophobic meant...but now its changed?
Anonymous wrote:I have seen a change too OP. I think the way things are moving, it is watering down the REAL homophobic experiences some have had to endure.
Not sure about this specific topic, but it’s certainly true of a lot of other topics (race, sexual harassment, hate, religion). They are used to shutdown conversation. Few people seem able to handle discussing topics anymore. It is always about winning an argument or shutting the other person down.
Anonymous
12/21/2020 12:55
Subject: I thought I knew what homophobic meant...but now its changed?
I have seen a change too OP. I think the way things are moving, it is watering down the REAL homophobic experiences some have had to endure.
Anonymous
12/21/2020 12:53
Subject: I thought I knew what homophobic meant...but now its changed?
UGH I hope any actual parent would understand these things are NOT always the same. They CAN be, but they must not always be. -OP
Anonymous
12/21/2020 12:51
Subject: I thought I knew what homophobic meant...but now its changed?
Homophobic to me means: an intense fear or distaste for all persons and topics homosexual, possibly due (but not necessarily due) to repressed same sex attraction.
I know homophobes exist. I have not yet had the misfortune of meeting one.
What I see a lot, though, is the term being used immediately without any such burden of proof whatsoever. So, when a parent merely said that perhaps their child was confused about being gay or bi, the use of the word "confused" was enough for another poster to speculate they were homophobic, despite the posters explanation, and then someone else jumped in to confirm that the post was "definitely" homophobic.
I am not the OP of that thread, but seeing it reminded me of other similar things Ive seen elsewhere, so I wanted to ask
Has the term homophobic come to encompass something like, say, a parent assuming their child is straight (from observation/missing other cues, whatever the reason) and then expressing uncertainty the child is accurate in saying they are gay or bi?
Would it be ok for a person who is gay with a child they assumed to be gay (based on observation/missing other cues, whatever the reason) to express uncertainty their child is accurate in saying they are straight?
Because for some reason it seems that parental observation and bias are being equated, and I feel or at least I hope any actual parent would understand these things are always the same. They CAN be, but they must not always be.
I know homophobes exist. I have not yet had the misfortune of meeting one.
What I see a lot, though, is the term being used immediately without any such burden of proof whatsoever. So, when a parent merely said that perhaps their child was confused about being gay or bi, the use of the word "confused" was enough for another poster to speculate they were homophobic, despite the posters explanation, and then someone else jumped in to confirm that the post was "definitely" homophobic.
I am not the OP of that thread, but seeing it reminded me of other similar things Ive seen elsewhere, so I wanted to ask
Has the term homophobic come to encompass something like, say, a parent assuming their child is straight (from observation/missing other cues, whatever the reason) and then expressing uncertainty the child is accurate in saying they are gay or bi?
Would it be ok for a person who is gay with a child they assumed to be gay (based on observation/missing other cues, whatever the reason) to express uncertainty their child is accurate in saying they are straight?
Because for some reason it seems that parental observation and bias are being equated, and I feel or at least I hope any actual parent would understand these things are always the same. They CAN be, but they must not always be.