Anonymous
11/29/2020 23:26
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:I think you might be more forgiving when you come into your mother’s shoes as a parent with adult children. You may not know exactly why she is emphasizing praise to your brother. Maybe your brother is secretly suffering from depression and needs the extra attention? Maybe she is trying to get him to participate and do more? She probably thinks you are a strong person and don’t need the extra attention that your no so mentally strong brother needs. Your mother is not perfect, and neither are you.
Maybe there is a super secret reason why I am treating you poorly?
That's something mothers often say to daughters, that if a man (or same-sex partner) used as an excuse, most mothers would suggest they break up. That person doesn't really love you.
Anonymous
11/29/2020 23:16
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:I think you might be more forgiving when you come into your mother’s shoes as a parent with adult children. You may not know exactly why she is emphasizing praise to your brother. Maybe your brother is secretly suffering from depression and needs the extra attention? Maybe she is trying to get him to participate and do more? She probably thinks you are a strong person and don’t need the extra attention that your no so mentally strong brother needs. Your mother is not perfect, and neither are you.
NP. People that can’t say what they mean or think directly, and emphasize or praise to manipulate a response from others are emotionally immature adults. That’s not normal or healthy behavior, which is what we’re discussing. PP, are you an older mother that does this instead of communication directly what you mean to your adult children?
Anonymous
11/29/2020 19:57
Subject: Re:How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Read the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It will help explain these dynamics and give you ways to avoid getting drawn into these kind of emotional prisons.
What I have learned is that it is not about trying to firmly set a boundary and then watch her to see if she crosses it. It's about learning to observe her behavior, identify what she is doing that is triggering me (which you are already doing, by identifying the golden child dynamic), and then using my observation to gain emotional distance. My goal is detachment, to view her behavior like I'm Jane Goodall and these are the curious behaviors of the apes in my study. It is hard, but the more I lean into observation and curiosity, the less likely I am to take bait or try to defend myself or engage in conversations that will leave me feeling confused, hurt, or misunderstood.
It also helps me to have someone to discuss my observations with. Right now, that's my husband. I had a call with my mother yesterday where she was herself, and then this morning while out on a walk, I told my husband about it and we discussed her behavior. He is supportive and good at listening, plus knows my mom and what she is like, so also receptive. And knowing I can debrief with him later make it easier for me to detach when I talk to her, because if I start to feel my feeling elevate, I can remind myself that I will have an opportunity later to express those feelings with him. He will be a receptive audience, but my mother will not. Learning this has helped me create boundaries that I can easily hold for myself, without having to police them. I just know that if I want to discuss my feelings about something my mom said or did, I go to my husband. When I'm talking to my mom, I detach and observe. Those are my boundaries. I observe them. No one else really has to do anything at all, which is good because I can't control what other people do.
Different poster , but I love this...especially the part about pretending I am Jane Goodall watching the curious behavior of the apes. I do this now without calling it that. I can basically predict the behaviors, just don't always know when they are coming. Occasionally she throws something new at me...you know how those apes can be. I stopped defending myself even calmly and politely. Maybe occasionally, but mostly I detach, say something polite like "sounds like you had a lovely time with Larlo" and then if starts getting annoying I politely exit stage left.
My mother falls in love with other people's adult children. I know these people and know she is presenting them in a 1 dementional way. I know they are not the perfect saints she portrays them to be, but it is not my place to dispute. I just say "Sounds great. Yes, that's wonderful she did x, y and z, for her mother. mmm hmmm."
Omg, yes about the adult children.
She’s been doing that since I was a kid. Other children were so interesting and much better than us.
OP
Anonymous
11/29/2020 19:55
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:One does not handle a narcissist.
Well said.
-OP
Anonymous
11/29/2020 19:54
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:I think you might be more forgiving when you come into your mother’s shoes as a parent with adult children. You may not know exactly why she is emphasizing praise to your brother. Maybe your brother is secretly suffering from depression and needs the extra attention? Maybe she is trying to get him to participate and do more? She probably thinks you are a strong person and don’t need the extra attention that your no so mentally strong brother needs. Your mother is not perfect, and neither are you.
No. She doesn’t understand that. She’s a narcissist and probably borderline, too.
Sometimes, I am the golden child.
When she gushes about one of us to the other, it is to try to get us in line to do what she wants or to try and make us jealous.
I’m not new to the dynamic.
Anonymous
11/29/2020 19:50
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
OP, I feel you. I try to just nod and smile and go along, but after so many times I’m like “let me clear up your selective memory!” And then I sound like the lunatic.
Thanksgiving we opted not to do our whole 20-immediate family dinner, but invited just my parents to be with us as we see them weekly as it is. They declined, but on the day when dinners were about to be put on the tables over the phone says we should have kept the original plan. I asked foe help with a specific dish she always makes, not because I can’t read a recipe but because I did miss seeing her on the day and wanted it her way, but I think the optics there were that I’m not capable, which couldn’t be further from the truth.
I just have to remind myself to let everything roll off. I know my truth (gosh that sounds soooo needy) but I don’t need to convince anyone to see it my way.
Thanksgiving we opted not to do our whole 20-immediate family dinner, but invited just my parents to be with us as we see them weekly as it is. They declined, but on the day when dinners were about to be put on the tables over the phone says we should have kept the original plan. I asked foe help with a specific dish she always makes, not because I can’t read a recipe but because I did miss seeing her on the day and wanted it her way, but I think the optics there were that I’m not capable, which couldn’t be further from the truth.
I just have to remind myself to let everything roll off. I know my truth (gosh that sounds soooo needy) but I don’t need to convince anyone to see it my way.
Anonymous
11/29/2020 19:39
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
One does not handle a narcissist.
Anonymous
11/29/2020 19:14
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:She raved about how great my brother is. I agreed. I figure my agreement disarms her. I won’t get into the “golden child” competition she tries to set up.
She was raving *again* yesterday about how great he was for doing “everything” for Thanksgiving.
Since it was the second time she was going on about this topic, I pointed out we brought food and asked her if she didn’t like the food we brought. She claimed she didn’t know we brought anything.
I assume she is trying to get under my skin. She did a bit.
By calmly pointing out what she did, did I just end up giving her the satisfaction that she bothered me or did I set a boundary?
***For anyone who will freak out about coronavirus, we sat outside six feet apart and wore masks when not eating. While eating, we sat very far apart outside. ***
Your problem is that you try to ignore. But she keeps at it, and you think you will get her to give the reaction you want. But it doesn’t work. You need to “grey rock” here. Every.single.time.
https://www.healthline.com/health/grey-rock#offer-nothing
Anonymous
11/29/2020 18:15
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
I think you might be more forgiving when you come into your mother’s shoes as a parent with adult children. You may not know exactly why she is emphasizing praise to your brother. Maybe your brother is secretly suffering from depression and needs the extra attention? Maybe she is trying to get him to participate and do more? She probably thinks you are a strong person and don’t need the extra attention that your no so mentally strong brother needs. Your mother is not perfect, and neither are you.
Anonymous
11/29/2020 17:18
Subject: Re:How to handle narcissist mother?
Anonymous wrote:Read the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It will help explain these dynamics and give you ways to avoid getting drawn into these kind of emotional prisons.
What I have learned is that it is not about trying to firmly set a boundary and then watch her to see if she crosses it. It's about learning to observe her behavior, identify what she is doing that is triggering me (which you are already doing, by identifying the golden child dynamic), and then using my observation to gain emotional distance. My goal is detachment, to view her behavior like I'm Jane Goodall and these are the curious behaviors of the apes in my study. It is hard, but the more I lean into observation and curiosity, the less likely I am to take bait or try to defend myself or engage in conversations that will leave me feeling confused, hurt, or misunderstood.
It also helps me to have someone to discuss my observations with. Right now, that's my husband. I had a call with my mother yesterday where she was herself, and then this morning while out on a walk, I told my husband about it and we discussed her behavior. He is supportive and good at listening, plus knows my mom and what she is like, so also receptive. And knowing I can debrief with him later make it easier for me to detach when I talk to her, because if I start to feel my feeling elevate, I can remind myself that I will have an opportunity later to express those feelings with him. He will be a receptive audience, but my mother will not. Learning this has helped me create boundaries that I can easily hold for myself, without having to police them. I just know that if I want to discuss my feelings about something my mom said or did, I go to my husband. When I'm talking to my mom, I detach and observe. Those are my boundaries. I observe them. No one else really has to do anything at all, which is good because I can't control what other people do.
Different poster , but I love this...especially the part about pretending I am Jane Goodall watching the curious behavior of the apes. I do this now without calling it that. I can basically predict the behaviors, just don't always know when they are coming. Occasionally she throws something new at me...you know how those apes can be. I stopped defending myself even calmly and politely. Maybe occasionally, but mostly I detach, say something polite like "sounds like you had a lovely time with Larlo" and then if starts getting annoying I politely exit stage left.
My mother falls in love with other people's adult children. I know these people and know she is presenting them in a 1 dementional way. I know they are not the perfect saints she portrays them to be, but it is not my place to dispute. I just say "Sounds great. Yes, that's wonderful she did x, y and z, for her mother. mmm hmmm."
Anonymous
11/29/2020 16:38
Subject: Re:How to handle narcissist mother?
My mom does things like this. Even in criticizes my brother, she gets digs in, like "Can you believe he wasted a gazillion dollars on that <insert luxury item> here" which comes as a dig re: our not having as much $$ or as many material things.
My replies are:
1) I remember that you said that.
2) Hmmmm
3) What color is it? What is it called again? Where did they find that? (This is a ....tell me more about the content of what the other person was saying. You can't? Oh. You don't actually listen to them, either.)
4) Oh. I am happy for them.
5) I was just so happy that they were able to ....(in this case, "find a use for everything we bought').
The kindness is off-putting and changes the tone.
I agree with those who say to watch your triggers.
Mothers sometimes know how to push your buttons, because they installed them.
There is a whole philosophy called Grey Rock, which you can find on other posts. It works, but there is also a nice cheap wine called Grey Rock. I buy it over the holidays.
My replies are:
1) I remember that you said that.
2) Hmmmm
3) What color is it? What is it called again? Where did they find that? (This is a ....tell me more about the content of what the other person was saying. You can't? Oh. You don't actually listen to them, either.)
4) Oh. I am happy for them.
5) I was just so happy that they were able to ....(in this case, "find a use for everything we bought').
The kindness is off-putting and changes the tone.
I agree with those who say to watch your triggers.
Mothers sometimes know how to push your buttons, because they installed them.
There is a whole philosophy called Grey Rock, which you can find on other posts. It works, but there is also a nice cheap wine called Grey Rock. I buy it over the holidays.
Anonymous
11/29/2020 16:06
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
Hello OP, I can empathize. I went through a phase where I felt compelled to correct my mother when she was triggering me (she plays favorites & also 'forgets' that certain topics are painful for me). Now I don't do it all that much, but when I do, I am typically a little amused. It really took my realizing that she is a) never going to change, b) somewhat unaware of her behavior (unlike you, I don't really think my mom's trying consciously to get under my skin), and c) definitely so different from me that I might as well be observing like PPs Goodall. She still sometimes makes me upset, & thanks to covid, usually I can just come up with a pretext to bow out of whatever phone call that is & tag her back later when I have just exercised or have a big pour of wine in hand. GL! Much empathy.
Anonymous
11/29/2020 15:42
Subject: Re:How to handle narcissist mother?
Thank you!
This is OP.
I did some of that and it is validating to hear I am on the right track even if I have room to improve.
During the conversation, I felt triggered and angry and then was able to find some detachment. I have more work to do here. For some reason, I felt compelled to correct her incorrect assumption.
I will look into that book. Thank you again!
This is OP.
I did some of that and it is validating to hear I am on the right track even if I have room to improve.
During the conversation, I felt triggered and angry and then was able to find some detachment. I have more work to do here. For some reason, I felt compelled to correct her incorrect assumption.
I will look into that book. Thank you again!
Anonymous
11/29/2020 15:25
Subject: Re:How to handle narcissist mother?
Read the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. It will help explain these dynamics and give you ways to avoid getting drawn into these kind of emotional prisons.
What I have learned is that it is not about trying to firmly set a boundary and then watch her to see if she crosses it. It's about learning to observe her behavior, identify what she is doing that is triggering me (which you are already doing, by identifying the golden child dynamic), and then using my observation to gain emotional distance. My goal is detachment, to view her behavior like I'm Jane Goodall and these are the curious behaviors of the apes in my study. It is hard, but the more I lean into observation and curiosity, the less likely I am to take bait or try to defend myself or engage in conversations that will leave me feeling confused, hurt, or misunderstood.
It also helps me to have someone to discuss my observations with. Right now, that's my husband. I had a call with my mother yesterday where she was herself, and then this morning while out on a walk, I told my husband about it and we discussed her behavior. He is supportive and good at listening, plus knows my mom and what she is like, so also receptive. And knowing I can debrief with him later make it easier for me to detach when I talk to her, because if I start to feel my feeling elevate, I can remind myself that I will have an opportunity later to express those feelings with him. He will be a receptive audience, but my mother will not. Learning this has helped me create boundaries that I can easily hold for myself, without having to police them. I just know that if I want to discuss my feelings about something my mom said or did, I go to my husband. When I'm talking to my mom, I detach and observe. Those are my boundaries. I observe them. No one else really has to do anything at all, which is good because I can't control what other people do.
What I have learned is that it is not about trying to firmly set a boundary and then watch her to see if she crosses it. It's about learning to observe her behavior, identify what she is doing that is triggering me (which you are already doing, by identifying the golden child dynamic), and then using my observation to gain emotional distance. My goal is detachment, to view her behavior like I'm Jane Goodall and these are the curious behaviors of the apes in my study. It is hard, but the more I lean into observation and curiosity, the less likely I am to take bait or try to defend myself or engage in conversations that will leave me feeling confused, hurt, or misunderstood.
It also helps me to have someone to discuss my observations with. Right now, that's my husband. I had a call with my mother yesterday where she was herself, and then this morning while out on a walk, I told my husband about it and we discussed her behavior. He is supportive and good at listening, plus knows my mom and what she is like, so also receptive. And knowing I can debrief with him later make it easier for me to detach when I talk to her, because if I start to feel my feeling elevate, I can remind myself that I will have an opportunity later to express those feelings with him. He will be a receptive audience, but my mother will not. Learning this has helped me create boundaries that I can easily hold for myself, without having to police them. I just know that if I want to discuss my feelings about something my mom said or did, I go to my husband. When I'm talking to my mom, I detach and observe. Those are my boundaries. I observe them. No one else really has to do anything at all, which is good because I can't control what other people do.
Anonymous
11/29/2020 15:16
Subject: How to handle narcissist mother?
She raved about how great my brother is. I agreed. I figure my agreement disarms her. I won’t get into the “golden child” competition she tries to set up.
She was raving *again* yesterday about how great he was for doing “everything” for Thanksgiving.
Since it was the second time she was going on about this topic, I pointed out we brought food and asked her if she didn’t like the food we brought. She claimed she didn’t know we brought anything.
I assume she is trying to get under my skin. She did a bit.
By calmly pointing out what she did, did I just end up giving her the satisfaction that she bothered me or did I set a boundary?
***For anyone who will freak out about coronavirus, we sat outside six feet apart and wore masks when not eating. While eating, we sat very far apart outside. ***
She was raving *again* yesterday about how great he was for doing “everything” for Thanksgiving.
Since it was the second time she was going on about this topic, I pointed out we brought food and asked her if she didn’t like the food we brought. She claimed she didn’t know we brought anything.
I assume she is trying to get under my skin. She did a bit.
By calmly pointing out what she did, did I just end up giving her the satisfaction that she bothered me or did I set a boundary?
***For anyone who will freak out about coronavirus, we sat outside six feet apart and wore masks when not eating. While eating, we sat very far apart outside. ***