I never took a prep course in my entire life, and I am successful and happy. Why are prep courses so vital to people? Are you that insecure?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" Aptitude tests are not desired to be studied for. "

So true. Prepping for an aptitude test is an oxymoron.

Let’s ban prepping for ALL aptitude tests related to admissions and appeals for AAP.

Yes!! Not being facetious, that’s the only way to honestly measure aptitude. Any prepping should be viewed as an advantage and therefore skews the results.

Anonymous wrote:" Aptitude tests are not desired to be studied for. "

So true. Prepping for an aptitude test is an oxymoron.

Let’s ban prepping for ALL aptitude tests related to admissions and appeals for AAP.

" Aptitude tests are not desired to be studied for. "

So true. Prepping for an aptitude test is an oxymoron.

" It’s not that hard to measure academic abilities. "

Academic achievement you can readily measure . . . not ability. Curie Leaning ought to awards its own degrees. Public schools should beware of "up-lift bras." Test-preppers ought to be schooled online. Schools like TJ and Stuyvesant ought to owned and operated by Big Tech. Every slot in TJ is a six-figure subsidy to the likes of Google.

Anonymous wrote:First, I disagree with the premise of your question. The immediate issue with TJ is that a significant group of people cheated by having access to the test that others didn't have. Can we all agree that "preparing" shouldn't include having the exact questions that are on the test?

Second, when we are talking AAP, we are talking about 1st and 2nd graders taking a "test" that is designed not to be prepped for. Prepping invalidates the test. It is no longer measuring what it is designed to measure and should not be used as a measure of anything. It certainly doesn't show that a particular child who prepped is "gifted".

Nobody has proven that anybody cheated by having the same questions and just repeating it doesn’t make it so.

First, I disagree with the premise of your question. The immediate issue with TJ is that a significant group of people cheated by having access to the test that others didn't have. Can we all agree that "preparing" shouldn't include having the exact questions that are on the test?

Second, when we are talking AAP, we are talking about 1st and 2nd graders taking a "test" that is designed not to be prepped for. Prepping invalidates the test. It is no longer measuring what it is designed to measure and should not be used as a measure of anything. It certainly doesn't show that a particular child who prepped is "gifted".

Unfortunately, in the US, elementary education is all over the place in terms of quality. We can never expect poor, disadvantaged students from an ES in a lower income area to compete with wealthy students from more affluent schools. That’s were the disconnect and the inequity lies. One small way we could try to level the playing field could be by prohibiting prepping courses for entrance/standardized exams. The standardized tests should be based on the content learned only in school taught by the teacher.

Anonymous wrote:Aptitude tests are not desired to be studied for. But some people don't want to hear that.

And at this point, that ship has sailed. But it's still true. So time to move away from aptitude tests. To what? To whatever transparent or opaque process that admissions chooses.

Your response does not make sense. Let's take algebra, for example. How else are you supposed to show that you have a firm grasp on algebraic concepts without a test? And what's wrong with studying for it? The point is to know it. If you don't know it, you will struggle in any advanced STEM setting. Who cares how you came to know it? Also, there are tons of free ways to learn and study for it, and it's not a waste of time to study for it if you end up not getting in because it's a foundational skill that will serve many purposes in future classes and in life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Measuring is not the problem. Not liking the result is the problem. Then you change the process until it results in what you want to see (i.e., less Asians, more blacks/Latinos). Crazy stupid if you ask me.

Are we talking about grades or the makeup of classes at TJ, a public high school?

Not clear from your post.

It's the same problem no matter whether you are talking grades, TJ or any other schools. Society's unwillingless to accept one group of kids simply do better forces educators and politicians to look for other solutions that look "better" from their perspective. Imagine an education system where color, gender, and political correctness do not matter - allow smart kids to go as fast as they can, provide support to kids who need more help. This PC thing is really not helping anyone.

Anonymous wrote:Measuring is not the problem. Not liking the result is the problem. Then you change the process until it results in what you want to see (i.e., less Asians, more blacks/Latinos). Crazy stupid if you ask me.

Are we talking about grades or the makeup of classes at TJ, a public high school?

Not clear from your post.

Measuring is not the problem. Not liking the result is the problem. Then you change the process until it results in what you want to see (i.e., less Asians, more blacks/Latinos). Crazy stupid if you ask me.

Aptitude tests are not desired to be studied for. But some people don't want to hear that.

And at this point, that ship has sailed. But it's still true. So time to move away from aptitude tests. To what? To whatever transparent or opaque process that admissions chooses.

It’s not that hard to measure academic abilities. It’s certainly easier than measuring other personality traits. Unfortunately people don’t like the results of the tests. It’s easier to throw them out than grapple with their findings.

Many of these posts keep saying tests mean nothing and we shouldn't use them, but then why are we graded on tests at school? How else can we determine who is capable of handling an advanced science and math curriculum? Especially when we have nothing else to go by, like a teacher rec or problem solving essay? Contrary to what some seem to think, it takes more than just interest. It takes aptitude and work. Why isn't anyone asking the TJ teachers what it really takes to be able to succeed in advanced stem courses? And then test the kids on that, just to make sure the incoming students have a certain level of aptitude. To just base the lottery on a GPA seems crazy to me. They don't have to make it some super secret test. Just tell people what to expect. Then everyone can prepare if they want.