Fed work is like a lot of long-unionized workforces like factories (for different historical reasons). There are basically 2-3 classes of workers. Permanent workers have tons of job security. So to have more budget flexibility, the government hires lots of people on term and seasonal positions. 2nd class: fed employees with benefits, but an expiration date, and can be non-renewed at seasonal or yearly intervals. And then the most year to year flexibility is to hire contractors, fellows, and other forms of non-empliyee, even though they can cost more, because they don't require commitments. (This isn't an argument against unions. It's an illustration of how employers try to find ways to offload financial risk onto employees.)

My specific fed job is also pretty safe because it involves administering a program that is popular with both parties in Congress and has been expanded and given more funding twice in the last year. It may not be here for 40 years, but it should be safe for the few years i plan to stay.

If you want to stay in Federal Employment don’t lie and don’t cheat. Being incompetent doesn’t seem to be enough on its own.

Excepted Service is easier to fire from than Competitive Service, but Managers can (and do) figure out how to remove people. It’s just a lot of work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A federal job is stable because the federal government has a system of merit system principles that means you can only be fired for poor job performance that can be proven or poor conduct that can be proven. And someone will now post how they know someone with poor performance that could not be fired from a federal position. But I can tell you, that as someone who practices federal personnel law, that it is nor true that people can’t be fired from the federal government. They just cannot be fired arbitrarily.

In the private sector your are generally at at-will employee which means you can be fired for any reason or no reason at all (other than a reason that would violate a law, such as discrimination).

So true. In fact, if you are a Federal whistleblower or have filed a discrimination or sexual harassment complaint then you can indeed be fired as a means of retaliation. So you are a lawyer, working for a Federal agency? If you are then lawyers just like you (paid for by the taxpayers) will look for any minor infraction a way to build a case against a complainant. Since MSPB and EEOC are now virtually toothless, it's a slam dunk for you!

Jesus Lisa is that you? I spent four years documenting someone who came to work drunk. And somehow drank all day. You can fire someone but it is a full time job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A federal job is stable because the federal government has a system of merit system principles that means you can only be fired for poor job performance that can be proven or poor conduct that can be proven. And someone will now post how they know someone with poor performance that could not be fired from a federal position. But I can tell you, that as someone who practices federal personnel law, that it is nor true that people can’t be fired from the federal government. They just cannot be fired arbitrarily.

In the private sector your are generally at at-will employee which means you can be fired for any reason or no reason at all (other than a reason that would violate a law, such as discrimination).

So true. In fact, if you are a Federal whistleblower or have filed a discrimination or sexual harassment complaint then you can indeed be fired as a means of retaliation. So you are a lawyer, working for a Federal agency? If you are then lawyers just like you (paid for by the taxpayers) will look for any minor infraction a way to build a case against a complainant. Since MSPB and EEOC are now virtually toothless, it's a slam dunk for you!

There's so much incorrect information in the PP, but I don't have the energy to try to correct it.

- fed employment law attorney

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even Donald has little power to fire a career Fed. People may tell him to fire Fauci (I disagree by the way), but he can't do that even if he wanted to.

But he can make Fauci disappear by reassigning him to god knows where. Top managers (SESs) have no protection from that stand point.

Ha! This is so true! He could just arbitrarily assign him to be the CIO of Agriculture, or CFO of the Railroad Retirement Board, or something random. I wonder if he knows he has this power...

Actually, he isn't SES. He is appointed under a different authority, so our vindictive leader can remove Fauci from the task force, which he basically already has, but that's about it.

Anonymous wrote:A federal job is stable because the federal government has a system of merit system principles that means you can only be fired for poor job performance that can be proven or poor conduct that can be proven. And someone will now post how they know someone with poor performance that could not be fired from a federal position. But I can tell you, that as someone who practices federal personnel law, that it is nor true that people can’t be fired from the federal government. They just cannot be fired arbitrarily.

In the private sector your are generally at at-will employee which means you can be fired for any reason or no reason at all (other than a reason that would violate a law, such as discrimination).

So true. In fact, if you are a Federal whistleblower or have filed a discrimination or sexual harassment complaint then you can indeed be fired as a means of retaliation. So you are a lawyer, working for a Federal agency? If you are then lawyers just like you (paid for by the taxpayers) will look for any minor infraction a way to build a case against a complainant. Since MSPB and EEOC are now virtually toothless, it's a slam dunk for you!

Anonymous wrote:I can't get fired unless I commit espionage, basically.

I think this is right. I was a Fed for ten years and the only time i saw anyone remotely close to getting fired was after a large group of women/WOC articulated (with documentation) discrimination concerns against their immediate supervisor. That supervisor was basically told she needed to look for a new job, so she wasn't even technically fired.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even Donald has little power to fire a career Fed. People may tell him to fire Fauci (I disagree by the way), but he can't do that even if he wanted to.

But he can make Fauci disappear by reassigning him to god knows where. Top managers (SESs) have no protection from that stand point.

Ha! This is so true! He could just arbitrarily assign him to be the CIO of Agriculture, or CFO of the Railroad Retirement Board, or something random. I wonder if he knows he has this power...

Anonymous wrote:Even Donald has little power to fire a career Fed. People may tell him to fire Fauci (I disagree by the way), but he can't do that even if he wanted to.

But he can make Fauci disappear by reassigning him to god knows where. Top managers (SESs) have no protection from that stand point.

Even Donald has little power to fire a career Fed. People may tell him to fire Fauci (I disagree by the way), but he can't do that even if he wanted to.

I can't get fired unless I commit espionage, basically.

Federal jobs are secure in the sense that you won't be laid off when the company's profits are down. You also won't be let go because "you're not a company fit"

A federal job is stable because the federal government has a system of merit system principles that means you can only be fired for poor job performance that can be proven or poor conduct that can be proven. And someone will now post how they know someone with poor performance that could not be fired from a federal position. But I can tell you, that as someone who practices federal personnel law, that it is nor true that people can’t be fired from the federal government. They just cannot be fired arbitrarily.

In the private sector your are generally at at-will employee which means you can be fired for any reason or no reason at all (other than a reason that would violate a law, such as discrimination).

Federal jobs are VERY stable if the position is funded by appropriated funding, is a permanent job, and you've served your probationary period. If you're going to be let go, it's going to be due to gross negligence or incompetence and not some bigger budget issue.

Fee funded or temp position? Not stable.

Ignorant question here!

Oftentimes when someone on the DCUM board (esp Jobs and Careers and Money and Finances) refers to their federal job they say that its safe/stable. Can you not get fired in federal positions? Are positions generally not cut?

I have lived in the DC area for over a decade and ashamed to admit I don't understand federal government jobs!