Mirroring is a highly effective strategy when you're having a disagreement with someone. You use mirroring to show you've heard what the other person has said. However mirroring is not really that effective for someone you're describing, OP.

A PP gave some example statements to use for establishing boundaries to help keep you healthy. The first statement is a good one and provides a re-direction for your sister -- After her third rant say “Okay that’s three negatives. Now come up with a positive because this whole conversation can’t be a downer.” I suggest modifying the second one a smidge to provide your boundary -- “I know I’m a good person to vent to, but it is upsetting to me when you have nothing good to say. Let's change the subject to something I choose and we both will say something positive about it."

Neither is going to work permanently but they will be good for extending the conversation so that you are 1) satisfying your need to maintain contact and support, and 2) building a bridge for your future relationship should she ever become more mentally healthy.

You may want to reach out to your sister's therapist/s and ask for their guidance. Your sister will have to agree that you can speak with the therapist so you will have to figure out how to approach that hurdle. And set some time limits for your interactions so that one interaction isn't so overwhelming.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a therapist. I have never heard, nor used the term "help-rejecting complainer" although I am familiar with this type.

I completely disagree with the advice. I think you set a boundary of "I've heard you, I've tried to help you, at this point I would like to have this relationship be about my needs and interests as well as yours and I don't want to discuss this ad nauseum whenever we are together."

This may have the person remove themself from your life, at least for a period of time, but the strategy that the article discusses will not work.

+1 to all of the above.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just keep pointing it out. After her third rant say “Okay that’s three negatives. Now come up with a positive because this whole conversation can’t be a downer.” Or “I know I’m a good person to vent to, but I’m worried that you have nothing good to say. Do you need to find some help with things?”

She sees therapists, doctors, and groups Therapy all week — she doesn’t work, basically her job is dealing with her mental health.

Getting help isn’t helping, I just want to maintain a healthy relation that works for both of us.

It seems like you’re looking for a unicorn. She’s not well mentally. You’re trying to find some way to connect with her that is healthy. Unfortunately, the thing that might be most healthy for you is to set some clear boundaries and cut off the the complaining with the expectation that it won’t make a wit of difference for her. But for YOU, it will help with your own mental health.

Anonymous wrote:Just keep pointing it out. After her third rant say “Okay that’s three negatives. Now come up with a positive because this whole conversation can’t be a downer.” Or “I know I’m a good person to vent to, but I’m worried that you have nothing good to say. Do you need to find some help with things?”

She sees therapists, doctors, and groups Therapy all week — she doesn’t work, basically her job is dealing with her mental health.

Getting help isn’t helping, I just want to maintain a healthy relation that works for both of us.

Just keep pointing it out. After her third rant say “Okay that’s three negatives. Now come up with a positive because this whole conversation can’t be a downer.” Or “I know I’m a good person to vent to, but I’m worried that you have nothing good to say. Do you need to find some help with things?”

Put it on yourself.

Tell them that it's the new year and you've decided that you need to be more positive and are approaching a "half-full" lifestyle - but that you might need their help! Let them know that you are trying to avoid negative energy (ha!) and that you are making it a point not to engage in negative conversation and gossip.

Ask that they "please help you out!" because it's not easy for you.

This way - you put the blame on yourself and they feel like they are helping you accomplish a goal.

I read the article. I disagree with the author’s premise about what is being reinforced. The author hypothesizes that an outsize response to the complainer reinforces the message “You matte.” I hypothesize that an exaggerated and reassuring response to the complaints reinforces that complaining gets the complainer what she wants. It sticks the listener in an endless loop of having to hear complaints. No thanks.

I'm a therapist. I have never heard, nor used the term "help-rejecting complainer" although I am familiar with this type.

I completely disagree with the advice. I think you set a boundary of "I've heard you, I've tried to help you, at this point I would like to have this relationship be about my needs and interests as well as yours and I don't want to discuss this ad nauseum whenever we are together."

This may have the person remove themself from your life, at least for a period of time, but the strategy that the article discusses will not work.

Out of principle I would never validate a habitual complainer unless there was genuinely reason to do so. I would tell a complainer that they’re exhausting to listen to and that’s why I am distancing myself.

Some of them do manage to rein it in after hearing that

Anonymous wrote:I can't see it working with the help-rejecting complainers in my life but am interested in seeing posts from anyone who it has worked for. I think I'd struggle too much to overvalidate without sarcasm.

Yeah lack of sarcasm makes it a high risk strategy!!

For Op here, my sister is having a hard time and has no one else, so I’m trying to be there for her but I need to channel it to less draining conversation.

I usually try the medium chill, but that tends to downplay drama “well at least the update is done” and that is NOT the right approach.

I have to strictly say, “that is a annoying” or what not, but then get harassed for not paying attention.

I find a great quote which said venting is good but is something you do on your own (at the gym, writing things down, etc) but complaining is not venting. I wish I could send to her but know it would just escalate things

It works with the middle schoolers I teach. They love the hyperbole.

I can't see it working with the help-rejecting complainers in my life but am interested in seeing posts from anyone who it has worked for. I think I'd struggle too much to overvalidate without sarcasm.

Nope, not the strategy I would recommend. Complainers aren’t self aware, so the exaggeration won’t get you anywhere with them. Many are addicted to drama. Many don’t have positive things in their lives to talk about or know positive ways to get attention. Best case, you provide mild entertainment for yourself.

Better strategy? Medium chill. Give bland, uninterested responses. Then change the subject. “Huh, bummer about your phone. No idea why that would happen. Anyway, what’s for dinner?” If your sister keeps droning on, just cut the conversation short. “Gotta run. The cat’s threatening to shiv the neighbor kid. Yup, again. Third time this week. Bye!”

Honestly? Why invest a ton of effort in trying to support someone who never changes? A lot of folks feel obligated to family, but blood relation doesn’t mean you have to let a drowning person pull you under. Be the lighthouse, not a lifeboat.

Honestly, I don't think the over reaction route will work for most chronic complainers.

I think it's a fundamental part of their personality and it won't change. My sister is the same way now (in her 60s) as she was in her 20s.

I am not getting any younger either and I am tired of trying to placate her or listen to her b.s. So I avoid her.

Not ideal but I have to let go of the dream of a sister I can be close to, and realize I have a sister I need to keep at arm's length.

Wow, didn’t know there was a word for this.

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/09/im-tired-dealing-my-sisters-complaints/597202/

My sister is like this, every time she talks to me it’s a chance for her to rail against the world and list her litany or complaints (she has a host of mental health problems and legitimacy has a hard life, so it’s a deep well she draws from). But I hear about all sorts of complaints, from rising prices to her computer being slow.

I want to maintain a relationship with her, but I am exhausted every time we talk. I’m going to try what this article suggests, where you overreact to their complaint “what? The iPhone update took an hour, that is unacceptable and they should give you a new phone onstead”. I’m not sure I can pull it off without sarcasm and I strongly suspect the mirroring that the article alludes to will not work and I have to just enforce boundaries when I talk.

Has anyone ever had luck with breaking a help-refusing complainer in their life?