Anonymous wrote:I know what you're talking about, OP. One of my kids just feels sorry for himself when he gets in trouble instead of thinking about what he did.

I see parenting articles that say this is caused by authoritarian parenting. And I do enforce boundaries and punish. But talking to him doesn't do anything.

I don't have any answers.

Oh come on. How do YOU feel when you get in trouble? A little defensive and blaming at first, right? Nobody (adult or child) responds to getting in trouble perfectly. "Oh let me think about what I did and repent!" No. They react in concordance with their particular personalities, but always in somewhat self-centered ways. The angel child that reacts by crying hysterically when they get in trouble and begging for forgiveness is no less self-centered than the child who reacts by saying "big deal." Two different coping mechanisms; that's all.

Anonymous wrote:12 year old kid who doesn’t have a dad? I’m sorry, but he is angry. And he doesn’t want mothering. He wants fathering. And it is what it is. He can’t get fathering. He will survive, but he is going to be angry and that’s his right. I suggest therapy just so he’s aware of what’s going on with his emotions. It won’t change his behavior per se in the short term. In the meantime, are there any trustworthy dudes you know who can mentor him? Teach him something? Guitar? Skateboarding? Woodworking etc. Good luck! Distance is normal at this age even in nuclear families.

No, he needs discipline (which has nothing to do with gender). A kid like OP's would completely melt down with stereotypical authoritarian "fathering." And lol at the idea that woodworking is some sort of magic key.

I think you need to get over the idea that your primary role is to be loving. Being a disciplinarian (TEACHING your kid) is equally important. My son is only 8 now but he sounds a lot like your kid. I'm disturbed that you've conclude he's "not good," as opposed to considering that you lack parenting skills. My son responds extremely well to incentives. I've long since given up the idealized notion that he should respond to softly spoken conversations about the values of being "kind" or whatever. All kids want what they want; that's normal.

12 year old kid who doesn’t have a dad? I’m sorry, but he is angry. And he doesn’t want mothering. He wants fathering. And it is what it is. He can’t get fathering. He will survive, but he is going to be angry and that’s his right. I suggest therapy just so he’s aware of what’s going on with his emotions. It won’t change his behavior per se in the short term. In the meantime, are there any trustworthy dudes you know who can mentor him? Teach him something? Guitar? Skateboarding? Woodworking etc. Good luck! Distance is normal at this age even in nuclear families.

I know what you're talking about, OP. One of my kids just feels sorry for himself when he gets in trouble instead of thinking about what he did.

I see parenting articles that say this is caused by authoritarian parenting. And I do enforce boundaries and punish. But talking to him doesn't do anything.

I don't have any answers.

OP again -- to the poster who suggested food allergies -- he does in fact have food allergies that deeply affect his personality. One of the ongoing issues is that he eats food he shouldn't, turns into a monster, lies about it, says he's sorry then does it again. He has zero discipline and I can't be there 24-7. This is a MAJOR factor in this scenario, so kuddos to you for guessing that.

Anonymous wrote:I would normally say there's something psychological at play...but you prefaced this whole thing by stating that you don't like discipline and you don't actually think it is part of mothering. Are you sure you have not created this problem by not exercising discipline properly? Before you do down the road of "this kid won't be fazed by punishment" I would think about taking a parenting class or get a parenting coach or similar to learn how to discipline properly.

And to all of you "I don't like discipline" parents - I hope you learn from this. Understand that your kids NEED and CRAVE discipline. Kids feel safe when YOU implement boundaries, and when you are consistent. implementing them. Kids feel safe when you do what you say you will do. Just the other day I was at a playgroup and an upset five year old came crying to his mom that Larla had broken his toy. He kept saying "I'm going to kick Larla! I'm going to kick Larla!" And his parents did nothing. It was so sad. He was desperate for a boundary and desperate for a parent to say "We don't kick." Discipline isn't a bad word, and I suspect that Op has created this issue by thinking that it is.

OP here. I do discipline my kids. My point is that it feels like a split -- the connected, warm relationship and the one that needs to mete out a consequence that is strong enough to make a difference. That's the point I'm at right now.

Kid is 12 to those who asked. Father is out of the picture.

I would normally say there's something psychological at play...but you prefaced this whole thing by stating that you don't like discipline and you don't actually think it is part of mothering. Are you sure you have not created this problem by not exercising discipline properly? Before you do down the road of "this kid won't be fazed by punishment" I would think about taking a parenting class or get a parenting coach or similar to learn how to discipline properly.

And to all of you "I don't like discipline" parents - I hope you learn from this. Understand that your kids NEED and CRAVE discipline. Kids feel safe when YOU implement boundaries, and when you are consistent. implementing them. Kids feel safe when you do what you say you will do. Just the other day I was at a playgroup and an upset five year old came crying to his mom that Larla had broken his toy. He kept saying "I'm going to kick Larla! I'm going to kick Larla!" And his parents did nothing. It was so sad. He was desperate for a boundary and desperate for a parent to say "We don't kick." Discipline isn't a bad word, and I suspect that Op has created this issue by thinking that it is.

How old?

I've seen several different kinds of kids with this attitude and they seem to fall into several categories: HFA, food sensitivity (usually sugar), or psychological problem. All very intelligent; none mature enough to overcome the undeveloped frontal lobe of youth.

Just telling you that you are not alone PP.

Op - how old is the kid? I think age matter a lot in this discussion.

Loving a child doesn't mean you have to protect him from consequences. He doesn't need to earn your love--he already has it--but he does need to earn the respect of people out in the world, including you.

I second looking into getting an expert's opinion on this situation if you are struggling. And maybe look into resources that would get other adults involved in his life, whether it's through church, scouts, big brother, etc.

Op you don’t have to resort to this. Has he been evaluated by a psychologist? I think you need some support and distance. That may be best thing you can do for him. Is his dad in the picture at all? Can you reach out to him. I’m so sorry that you are dealing with the often silent struggle of motherhood, feels like we only get recognized for failure.

Let me preface this by saying I'm a single mom, so I can't divvy up the various aspects of parenting.

My concept of 'mothering' is nurturing, loving, being accepting, teaching how to be a good person in the world, teaching how to grow into a happy adult, etc. Also providing for their food, clothing, shelter, etc, which I enjoy. That's what I signed on for. I have a hard time with being the disciplinarian but I accept that I have to do it, and I do. I'm just having a really hard time figuring out how to do both of those things at once -- to be the disciplinarian and also be loving and warm and 'there for you no matter what,' nurturing a good bond, etc.

One of my kids has never been phased with any punishments, anger, consequences natural or imposed by me, loss of privileges, meetings with teachers -- nothing phases him. Since he was old enough for a 'time out' he has made it clear that any consequence is just the price he has to pay to do or get what he wants, and in addition to that, he feels sorry for himself for having them instead of sorry for what he did. Talking means nothing -- I can see he's either waiting for me to stop talking about it, or pretending to be sorry so we can all move on. He's like a con artist. He has no respect for being the kind of person I am trying to teach my kids to be. I love this kid and have gone to bat for him multiple times over the years in various settings, and he knows I'm in his corner no matter what. However, I no longer think that is helping him be a good person. It hasn't helped in any way to give him my undying devotion and commitment.

This kid crossed a line, and I crossed a line in my response to what he did. I have forgiven him so many times I just can't do it anymore. I feel like I have to let go of my warm fuzzy ideas of being a mother, completely and totally, to keep this kid out of jail when he grows up.

Seems like a sad choice.....