Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, but now that A LOT more kids are earning A's aren't colleges going to have no choice but to give more emphasis to other factors - most likely test scores? I mean in the age of retesting and allowing late work, an A doesn't really say as much about a student as it used to.

It honestly seems like the trend is going in the other direction. A lot of schools are eliminating standardized tests as part of their admissions because minority groups score lower on them, and they claim that they're biased. If you eliminate standardized tests and drastically increase the number of good grades you can "fix" the achievement gap.

Colleges are eliminating standardized tests because they have found they aren’t the best predictor of academic success (grades are). And yes it puts students who don’t score as well in a more even footing. That includes students of all demographic groups and some students with earning disabilities.

Anonymous wrote:Ok, but now that A LOT more kids are earning A's aren't colleges going to have no choice but to give more emphasis to other factors - most likely test scores? I mean in the age of retesting and allowing late work, an A doesn't really say as much about a student as it used to.

It honestly seems like the trend is going in the other direction. A lot of schools are eliminating standardized tests as part of their admissions because minority groups score lower on them, and they claim that they're biased. If you eliminate standardized tests and drastically increase the number of good grades you can "fix" the achievement gap.

Ok, but now that A LOT more kids are earning A's aren't colleges going to have no choice but to give more emphasis to other factors - most likely test scores? I mean in the age of retesting and allowing late work, an A doesn't really say as much about a student as it used to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem is SAT has also shifted to dumbing down and not differentiating as well as they used to at the top. Now it’s much more common to get perfect scores than it was 20-30 Yrs ago.

Really? I heard that SAT scores had gone done, while GPA's have gone up.

They generally trend down, but they get renormed every once in awhile and in the process usually raise the "average".

A 1400 in the 1980s is equivalent to mid/high 1500s now after all of the changes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem is SAT has also shifted to dumbing down and not differentiating as well as they used to at the top. Now it’s much more common to get perfect scores than it was 20-30 Yrs ago.

Really? I heard that SAT scores had gone done, while GPA's have gone up.

800's used to be unusual, now not so much.

Agree. I graduated HS in 1992 from a Whitman-like public school that sent kids to all of the Ivies, Duke, Hopkins, Northwestern, UVA, Michigan, etc., and 800s on the SATs were virtually unheard of.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem is SAT has also shifted to dumbing down and not differentiating as well as they used to at the top. Now it’s much more common to get perfect scores than it was 20-30 Yrs ago.

Really? I heard that SAT scores had gone done, while GPA's have gone up.

800's used to be unusual, now not so much.

Anonymous wrote:Problem is SAT has also shifted to dumbing down and not differentiating as well as they used to at the top. Now it’s much more common to get perfect scores than it was 20-30 Yrs ago.

Really? I heard that SAT scores had gone done, while GPA's have gone up.

Anonymous wrote:It seems that most schools have shifted over to standards based grading, which includes practices such as not counting homework/classwork, and allowing test retakes. I see the benefits of it, but it does seem that it has lead to an increase in the number of A's students are given. I was at my middle schoolers awards assembly that was given for kids who made straight A's for the first quarter, and I heard the other mom's remarking on how many more students were getting awards this year than last. This is the first year that the school has fully implemented Standards Based Grading. My concern is that with the huge increase in student GPA's, how are colleges going to differentiate between kids? It would seem as if there would be little choice but to place more weight on SAT scores. Do you think this will start happening soon?

Well...after three years of Middle School, during the 8th grade promotion ceremony, about 25 kids out of about 550 were recognized as straight A's. That translates to the top 4.5% of the class. These kids seem to be the same ones taking the most rigorous courses in our high school (all honors with lots of APs mixed in) and I expect when they graduate from high school, they will also be in the same top percentile of GPAs (4.7 ish) as they were in Middle School (which topped out at 4.4 if they took all 5 high school courses including two honors courses available to them). I don't think it is as much a mystery as many posters on here rail about nor do I think that the grade inflation issue that is raised so routinely ends with hundreds of kids with the same GPA. Not to mention, the counselors and teachers seem to know who the tippy top students are.

"Colleges have always found a way to adapt and identify the students that they feel with succeed and contribute at their institution."

The colleges have adapted fine and will have no problem adapting as the rest of the schools make this (welcomed) change.

The problem is that students and even more so their parents, haven't adapted.

There have been some who recognize that taking more rigorous classes can matter but I have seen this taken to extremes that no college will ever care about.

Having slightly more rigor than the other top students at your school is worthless. Just like standards based grading, tippy top colleges judge your stats on standards as well.

You just need enough rigor to show that you can do the work. Once you have met that standard, you need to do something to turn the ad coms' heads.

The ad coms' don't want to create or select stressed students. They want to select students who can do their work really easily.

So easily that they have the time (and more importantly the inclination) to be excellent at something else besides school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For selective colleges and universities what matters is the cumulative number of rigorous courses you take, which is generally rewarded with a GPA bump.

What matters is how your student performs relative to their peers at their own school. Colleges have always found a way to adapt and identify the students that they feel with succeed and contribute at their institution. This won't be much different.

I also disagree that 'most schools' have made this shift, at least not yet.

Yes, but now those kids who are taking the rigorous courses are more likely to be making A's And yes, I would say at least over half of schools have made this shift, and the rest will be following soon - it is very much in vogue and in educational circles is considered "best practices". I'm a former teacher and current sahm who keeps up with this stuff.

Well they could then substitute AP and IB (projected) scores to differentiate among students, rather than only using those for placement down the road. Another option would be SAT subject tests, which some students already do to prove that they really have learned US history or physics or whatever.

No.

Problem is SAT has also shifted to dumbing down and not differentiating as well as they used to at the top. Now it’s much more common to get perfect scores than it was 20-30 Yrs ago.

Anonymous wrote:For selective colleges and universities what matters is the cumulative number of rigorous courses you take, which is generally rewarded with a GPA bump.

What matters is how your student performs relative to their peers at their own school. Colleges have always found a way to adapt and identify the students that they feel with succeed and contribute at their institution. This won't be much different.

I also disagree that 'most schools' have made this shift, at least not yet.

Yes, but now those kids who are taking the rigorous courses are more likely to be making A's And yes, I would say at least over half of schools have made this shift, and the rest will be following soon - it is very much in vogue and in educational circles is considered "best practices". I'm a former teacher and current sahm who keeps up with this stuff.

For selective colleges and universities what matters is the cumulative number of rigorous courses you take, which is generally rewarded with a GPA bump.

What matters is how your student performs relative to their peers at their own school. Colleges have always found a way to adapt and identify the students that they feel with succeed and contribute at their institution. This won't be much different.

I also disagree that 'most schools' have made this shift, at least not yet.

It seems that most schools have shifted over to standards based grading, which includes practices such as not counting homework/classwork, and allowing test retakes. I see the benefits of it, but it does seem that it has lead to an increase in the number of A's students are given. I was at my middle schoolers awards assembly that was given for kids who made straight A's for the first quarter, and I heard the other mom's remarking on how many more students were getting awards this year than last. This is the first year that the school has fully implemented Standards Based Grading. My concern is that with the huge increase in student GPA's, how are colleges going to differentiate between kids? It would seem as if there would be little choice but to place more weight on SAT scores. Do you think this will start happening soon?