Anonymous wrote:Tuck them in with a story and do not go back in the room. I do not like the idea of putting chlidproof knob covers on an inside bedroom door. What if the child has an emergency or there is a fire? Dumb. Just hold the door shut & play on your phone and do not give in. It'll only take a few nights.

I also don't like that for an emergency situation. We crack the door every night before we go to bed, after they have fallen asleep, so it's only non-operable for about an hour while they fall asleep and we are awake listening.

Knowing I was outside the door would just fuel the fire for my kids. Being able to step away and keep my patience and not engage works better for us. I prefer them think their actions aren't impacting me at all vs. their actions forcing me to sit outside their room.

I fully empathize. Sleep issues are hard.

Mine now share a room and it helped a lot with our sleep issues with the older one. DS is almost 5, DD just turned 3. They've been sharing for a year and they love it. They're allowed to read and chat quietly but have to stay in their beds. I generally a lot for 30 min or so of unwind time where they read and talk. If that goes on too late, I go in and tell them no talking and sometimes it escalates to threats. Tonight's threat was if I heard another peep, they both had to take naps tomorrow. That worked.

I try to stick to natural consequences. So instead of taking away goody bags:
- if you don't sleep now, you're having forced nap/quiet time tomorrow
- If you don't sleep now you'll be cranky in the morning and we are not going to do (insert fun activity)
- If I hear anymore noise, bedtime is being moved earlier tomorrow because sleep is important.

I always follow through on these as well.

I also have the door setup where they cannot open it so they have to stay in their rooms.

I would also try moving bedtime earlier because being overtired does make it harder.

Good luck!

How much 1:1 time do the kids get? How many hours are they in daycare for?

They sound like they struggle for your attention even if it is negative attention.

Also, do they get enough run around time? Napping too much at daycare?

Tuck them in with a story and do not go back in the room. I do not like the idea of putting chlidproof knob covers on an inside bedroom door. What if the child has an emergency or there is a fire? Dumb. Just hold the door shut & play on your phone and do not give in. It'll only take a few nights.

I think you need to just gear up for a month of hardcore consistency. No giving an inch. No discussions no talking.

My DD went through this around 3 and for weeks dh and I would trade off when we hit a patience wall but we would stand outside the door and not engage but if she came out of her room we would put her back in. No conversation, just put her back in. It was ok if she wanted to get out of bed but the lights stayed out and if she was bad the door got shut (she has nightlights) and then we would stand there and be silent enforcers while she raged.

With my son he just kind of went through a similar phase but it wasn't as bad. And we would just keep doing it every day. Put him in bed. Hug. Show love but leave. If he comes out put him back in over and over. Hes only 2 so when he got really worked up we would do a little comforting but not give an inch.

If they believe you are firm they will accept the parameter on their live. But you have to be like a beacon of calm. The second we would start to get snippy with them the other parent would tap in. Every once in awhile they'll test our boundaries and it will be a rough week but 95% of the time bedtime routine works seamlessly.

3.5 year old DD has incentives for staying in bed (cuddly pillow, books, etc) and on nights that she has a hard time doing that we “help” her by locking her in her room until she is either willing to stay in her room or until she’s asleep.

Is this the norm or just today?

What worked for my youngest was making the rule that they could look at a book or play with a toy in bed, but they had to stay in bed.

We then morphed that into them being allowed to listen to an audio book but they had to stay in bed.

She's almost 12 now and she now listens to a podcast to fall asleep.

My kid is 3.5 and we did a pseudo CIO that worked great but they eventually grow and realize they can just get out of bed and everything goes to sh*t. Just wanted to mention it so you don’t think CIO would’ve saved you from this.

What’s worked with my son recently - and it all may change tomorrow - is letting him bring a couple of toys/books into bed. He can stay up and play/read but he has to stay in bed. We got him a toy/night light that is safe to have in bed, shuts off after an hour, and it seems to get him excited to stay in bed. So maybe try to create some sort of bed-only environment (a tent, flashlight, books, toys) that he gets as long as he stays in bed?

It’s also never too late for some sort of sleep training. The sleep lady shuffle book worked on our older sun - maybe try it with your younger son to help him adjust to you not being in the room?

It’s rough OP, hang in there. Good luck.

Earlier bedtimes. Everything you described gets exacerbated when kids are overtired.

Anyway to put them both in the same room?

You need to figure out what motivates your kids. I trained both my kids to go to bed and stay in bed by giving them a reward of a piece of candy in the morning. It worked because I never give them candy otherwise and I could continuously change the reward to a new and different candy. We also do a lot of screen time loss as punishment.

Also want to add my 2 yo was falling asleep on the floor by the door for like a month. Now he doesn’t get out of bed Once in it

Well you need to be firm and consistent. Mommy becomes really mean to kids who don’t go to bed on time. Also put childproof covers on door knobs so they cannot leave the room.

Biggest mistake we made is not doing cry it out. Now we have two kids who will not go to sleep unless parent with them in the room -- little one becomes panicky if a parent leaves or if they wake up at night and no parent is nearby.

the older one -- refuses to stay in bed. just. won't. listen. tonight I told him that he would lose the goody bags from weekend bday parties if he go out of bed. he had three parties. he got out of bed three times. bye-bye goody bags.

then he tried to do an end run around me into the hall. I pulled him off the door and physically tossed him back into bed and now feel all sorts of guilty about it. I feel like I have no recourse. He just flat out doesn't care what DH or I say or do.

I work very early hours during week -- frequently have to be up at 430 a.m. so I sit here resenting them more and more because all the hours spent cajoling them to go to sleep is time I'm not spending cleaning/with DH/taking care of myself etc.