Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any mechanism for a parent to ask NCSL to look at whether the red card was appropriate?

It's entirely a judgment call, not application of the rules. It's the ref's judgment whether the offensive player had an obvious goal-scoring opportunity, and it's the ref's judgment whether the defender was attempting to play the ball.

If the ref had misapplied a rule -- say, awarding an indirect free kick for a handball -- you might have a case.

I think what you're really questioning is whether this rule is too harsh for U11. Well, it's the rule that everyone agreed to, it's not fair to the other team not to apply it. If your child wants to continue he needs to learn that under the rules of soccer, fouls in the penalty area are treated harshly, and fouling on a goal-scoring opportunity is treated harshly. The lesson is to play carefully in those situations.

But it is a misapplied rule. Per Fifa rules, it's a caution not an expulsion. Expulsion is only warranted if the ref deemed the player wasn't going for the ball.

That said, I agree, NCSL isn't going to change anything. They may even add a suspension or 2 for complaining.

Anonymous wrote:Is there any mechanism for a parent to ask NCSL to look at whether the red card was appropriate?

It's entirely a judgment call, not application of the rules. It's the ref's judgment whether the offensive player had an obvious goal-scoring opportunity, and it's the ref's judgment whether the defender was attempting to play the ball.

If the ref had misapplied a rule -- say, awarding an indirect free kick for a handball -- you might have a case.

I think what you're really questioning is whether this rule is too harsh for U11. Well, it's the rule that everyone agreed to, it's not fair to the other team not to apply it. If your child wants to continue he needs to learn that under the rules of soccer, fouls in the penalty area are treated harshly, and fouling on a goal-scoring opportunity is treated harshly. The lesson is to play carefully in those situations.

You do not see many yellow cards at that age let alone a red. The times I have seen a red card at that age is when a player is trying to hurt another player. The player has repeatedly tackled from behind, hit or kicked a player, fouled with intent, etc. Most times the player will unfortunately only get a long talk and a yellow.

I saw a game a few weeks ago where the same defender took a player down from behind in the box twice. The attacking player was one on one with the goalie. Second time it happen the player got a yellow. PK were awarded in a tight game.

Let me guess no one made a big deal about except you? Every red I have seen in the younger age was deserved- ie parents on both side agree with it or saw it coming. Under u12, I have never seen a red that was a surprise.

The ref made what they thought was the correct call.

No need to appeal.

No need to obsess.

Don't tell the kid the ref was wrong. He was probably correctly applying the rules even if that is perhaps a bit harsh for a 9 year old.

Missing the next game is no big deal.

Don't make a big deal out of it with the kid!

Anonymous wrote:Denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity inside the penalty box is an automatic yellow card offense, not a red card. If that was the refs reasoning he/she misapplied the rule. Elsewhere on the pitch it is a red card, as you are not getting the immediate benefit of the penalty shot.

Within the penalty area it depends on whether the foul was an attempt to play the ball. If not, it's red. It's a subjective call in the opinion of the ref.

Is there any mechanism for a parent to ask NCSL to look at whether the red card was appropriate?

Denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity inside the penalty box is an automatic yellow card offense, not a red card. If that was the refs reasoning he/she misapplied the rule. Elsewhere on the pitch it is a red card, as you are not getting the immediate benefit of the penalty shot.

OP here. Kid is 9. Just seems like a penalty kick and yellow card would be appropriate if it isn't intentional. Now kid has to sit out next week and the whole incident was pretty embarrassing. I guess you live and learn, but really rough for this age group.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ncsl game today. U11 boys. Kid on defense chases down another player on a breakaway and supposedly fouls him although from my view it seemed they were both going for the ball. Is this an automatic red card?
Ref awarded penalty kick and red card. Seems harsh.

No red as long as the player was going for the ball. If ref gives red, it has to be because he deemed the player to have committed an egregious foul.

While not going for the ball is obviously a foul, going for the ball does not excuse a foul. If a foul is committed which denies an obvious goal scoring opportunity, that's a red card. If it's in the box, it's a penalty.

Fifa laws:

Denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity
Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring
opportunity by a deliberate handball offence the player is sent off wherever the
offence occurs.
Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own
penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity
and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offender is cautioned if the offence
was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling,
pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off.
A player, sent off player, substitute or substituted player who enters the field of
play without the required referee’s permission and interferes with play or an
opponent and denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring
opportunity is guilty of a sending-off offence.
The following must be considered:
•?distance between the offence and the goal
•?general direction of the play
•?likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
•?location and number of defenders

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ncsl game today. U11 boys. Kid on defense chases down another player on a breakaway and supposedly fouls him although from my view it seemed they were both going for the ball. Is this an automatic red card?
Ref awarded penalty kick and red card. Seems harsh.

No red as long as the player was going for the ball. If ref gives red, it has to be because he deemed the player to have committed an egregious foul.

While not going for the ball is obviously a foul, going for the ball does not excuse a foul. If a foul is committed which denies an obvious goal scoring opportunity, that's a red card. If it's in the box, it's a penalty.

This was a rule change from 2018. The infraction is "denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity." The guidance to referees is:

In evaluating whether there has been an obvious goal scoring opportunity, officials are encouraged to
consider the following:
• Distance between the offense and the goal (the offense must be near the goal)
• General direction of play (the attacking players are generally headed towards the goal)
• Likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball (the player must have or be able to get
control of the ball in order to score)
• Location and number of defenders (not more than one defender between the attacking player
and the goal, not counting the player that committed the foul and the defenders must be able
to challenge the attacking player)
If any of the above considerations are missing, it is not an obvious goal scoring opportunity.

There are a bunch of new rules that IFAB put into effect for competitions beginning after June 1, 2019. This is not one of them.

The ref probably considered it to be a foul that denied a clear goal scoring opportunity. A penalty kick and a red card are appropriate under such circumstances. However, I rarely see it given in youth soccer games at U11 level.

Anonymous wrote:Ncsl game today. U11 boys. Kid on defense chases down another player on a breakaway and supposedly fouls him although from my view it seemed they were both going for the ball. Is this an automatic red card?
Ref awarded penalty kick and red card. Seems harsh.

No red as long as the player was going for the ball. If ref gives red, it has to be because he deemed the player to have committed an egregious foul.

Ncsl game today. U11 boys. Kid on defense chases down another player on a breakaway and supposedly fouls him although from my view it seemed they were both going for the ball. Is this an automatic red card?
Ref awarded penalty kick and red card. Seems harsh.