Ha I feel like my 3 year old DD could become this kid! We are fighting lying now too and it is hard not to get mad about it!

Agree with other posters about more positive consequences. DD LOVES it when I tell her I'm proud of her. And agree to not let her have the power of the lie, if you know she's messing with you call her on it and don't explain how you know, then they can circumvent that. Just be confident. I agree with the other poster who mentioned having a keyword or something like drama. In our house its a meltdown. Like, do you need some time alone? Looks like a meltdown is coming. And at first we would just have the meltdown but these days she senses it herself actually and will go to her room to be by herself to calm down.

As for the dramatics like the wishing she was her sister. I try to keep in mind this advice/anecdote from my dad, who is a psychiatrist who sees a bunch of kids. He was telling me about these parents who came in distraught because their like 6 year old or something was suicidal and talking about how he was sure he was going to hell and didn't want to be on this earth anymore. And in probing it came out that the first time they said they thought they were going to hell it was after hearing some religious thing and mom FLIPPED OUT and started crying. And so they learned at that first casual mention that this would evoke this extreme display of emotion and love from his parents. As soon as he started talking about dying and hell they would SHOWER him with love and praise and hugs and comfort! So he just kept doing it. It wasn't malicious, just Pavlovian. He basically told them to stop reacting to it at all, even if it was hard, and they did and the kid stopped saying it!

So that isn't to say to avoid real signs of depression or anything. But if your kid is who you say she is (hysterical, fun personality) then I wouldn't leap right to real depression. She has probably just learned that talking about how she wants to be her sister causes you guys to shower her with reassurances.

Kids that young are all kind of sociopathic developmentally, you have to look at them through that lens.

Anonymous wrote:She sounds smart and naturally machiavallian and probably will be the CEO of a Fortune 500 company someday. You might just have to embrace this.

Lying and manipulation will keep her any kind of success.

I have a daughter who is a lot like this and I tend to agree with 9:24. Try to figure out ways to defuse and *ignore* the unwelcome behavior, and focus on and praise the good behavior.

Lying is age appropriate, as you point out, so relax on the lectures. She doesn't have the moral capacity to absorb them. My DD is 7 and still lies about brushing her teeth. I simply tell her, with varying degrees of exasperation, that I know she is not telling me the truth, that if she persists she will get in more trouble for lying, and that she needs to go brush her teeth. Then I turn my back and ignore her until she goes and does it.

My DD also frequently will complain of a stomach ache, and often tells her teachers she's sick to get sent to the nurse. I suspect she has anxiety, which is obviously a separate issue, but she doesn't have an illness. I tell her I'm sorry to hear about her stomach ache, and then I move on. No medicine unless she has a fever. And her teachers now get a heads up from me that she is not sick and does not need to go to the nurse, unless they think she LOOKS sick.

My DD is also very dramatic and will expound at length about perceived wrongs, spats at school, etc. I have found it works fairly well to listen for a while, reflect back, ask her how she feels or what she thinks about a situation, give her words to deal with tricky situations as needed, but generally don't give much advice or try to solve the problem. Then, because she will go on forever, I cut her off at some point and tell her that we have talked about it long enough for now and that it's time to move on to something else.

GL OP. I think some kids are just very intense and take more thought to figure out how best to deal with them. I have two other kids and they are the most chill little people ever (so far!). What you're doing right now is putting that thought in and soliciting more strategies until you find the one that works. That doesn't make you a failure at all, quite the opposite in fact.

Anonymous wrote:I see a pattern your post where you go to an outside source -- teacher, doctor -- to resolve something. That's a negative consequence for the kid, and also doesn't give her control over her situation, which feeds anxiety.

So for example, if she says a classmate is mean, start with just listening (she may just need to vent), reflecting back and asking how she feels. Then move to, What can she do in the moment when someone is mean? Do some role play, empower her to deal with it herself and manage her own reaction to someone else. If you really think the teacher needs to be involved, you can contact the teacher without telling DD.

DP here, good point - going to the teacher sounds almost like a threat. She needs to learn how to manage peer interactions on her own. I ask my DD 'what do you do in that situation?' and then we talk about what choices she can make.

Negative consequences all day long will make a delinquent out of any 5 year old. Try hugs.

I see a pattern your post where you go to an outside source -- teacher, doctor -- to resolve something. That's a negative consequence for the kid, and also doesn't give her control over her situation, which feeds anxiety.

So for example, if she says a classmate is mean, start with just listening (she may just need to vent), reflecting back and asking how she feels. Then move to, What can she do in the moment when someone is mean? Do some role play, empower her to deal with it herself and manage her own reaction to someone else. If you really think the teacher needs to be involved, you can contact the teacher without telling DD.

It does sound like anxiety and also that emotional needs aren't being met -- doesn't mean you're a bad parent, just that DD needs something different. I do suggest therapy and also some books on "peaceful parenting.". Try Dr Laura Markham.

Also, you seem kind of hands off. My DD is 6 and I sit with her while she brushes teeth. Does she have the motor skills to do it herself, sure, but she won't do it / do a good job. I wonder if you are more in the mode of parenting an older child and forgetting that young kids need supervision to actually get something done.

I have a kid who's very much like this. Other child never does it. I think it's an attention thing. The one who does it like yours - very physically striking/cute, tons of attention from peers and adults, etc. Just needs to be the center of everyone's world, always. It's exhausting.

Anonymous wrote:She sounds smart and naturally machiavallian and probably will be the CEO of a Fortune 500 company someday. You might just have to embrace this.

Ha, that was my first thought. Wonder if you could funnel her smarts into something productive?

She sounds smart and naturally machiavallian and probably will be the CEO of a Fortune 500 company someday. You might just have to embrace this.

What is home life like OP? Is there a father around? A new sibling in the house? There seems to be something amiss. Are you an anxious person by chance?
Besides pestering older sister, do they get along? Does older sister naturally get more attention bc shes older/has more activity/gets more "attention" via you helping her with homework, etc.

For some reason she can't tell you the truth, that would worry me. Sounds like she has anxiety or is scared to tell you. The school situation would worry me.

I don't think it's realistic that you're going to stop the behavior, which is really just escalated boundary pushing, but you could probably minimize some of it. You can definitely reduce the stress it's causing.

What happens if you ignore or brush off the dramatics? I tell my DD she's being "drama" a lot. That's her signal that I'm not falling for her crap. If she's screaming or something, "do you need a timeout to calm down?" With lecturing...my DH is always trying to lecture DD but it flat out does not work and often makes things worse. I would stop repeating things you've explained and if you feel you need to, just say "remember what we talked about; what happens when we lie?" Keep it short, minimal reaction, move on with your day. Not everything is a teachable moment.

Also, stop the idle threats about the doctor. You need to send the message that YOU KNOW when she's sick and when she's faking. Right now she thinks she holds the power of that information. Take her temperature if you need to. No fever, no meds! I did once ask DD if we needed to go to the hospital - she actually called my bluff and said yes! We were in the car so I told her if we arrive in 20 minutes and it still hurts, we will go to the hospital. Then I asked her to count as high as she could count. That seemed to calm down whatever the issue was (probably just tired of being in the car). So you could try something like that.

With the bugging your other daughter stuff, you need to set DD2 up with an absorbing activity that she does every day at that time so she gets into a habit of leaving older sis alone. Can you play a game with her? Have a "sports practice" where you exercise together? Cook something? Maybe have an activity menu that she can pick from each day. You can praise when she respects boundaries of course, but with my DD at least, the only thing that reliably works is replacing the temptation to bug the person who wants to be left alone with something more fun.

Do you look for when she is doing something right or that you want andpraise her? DS asks for something politely and I will say “Yes you can have water and thank you for being so polite.” He helps set the table and it is “Thank you for helping me out.” Not every time, at least not now, but really, really frequently when we are trying to teach him something or change a behavior.

I want him to know that I see that he is doing something the way we ask him to or something that is hard.

i hope he has learned that I am seeing when he does what we want him to do and noticing.

So maybe look for those moments “You did a great job leaving your sister alone when she asked to be.” “Good work brushing your teeth tonight. I love it when you listen and it is good for your health.”

I also let him know when I am proud of him and why. “DS I am proud of you. I know that it is hard for you to do X and I saw you trying to do X today. Great effort.”

Essentially, accentuate the positive. Still provide consequences of the negative but look for times that you can praise her and let her know that she is doing what you want. Hopefully the negative attention seekign behavior will turn around.

we had the same problem, on a smaller scale, with the medicine. We would remind DS that medicine is for when you are sick and that it can hurt you if you take it when you are not sick or if you take too much of it. So we’ll give you Tylenol if your mysterious leg pain that just creeped up after you have been running around for the last 10 minutes is still there in the morning. And we do ask him if we should take him to the doctor because regular pain means that something is wrong with your body and we need to make sure that you are healthy.

5yo DD has been super strong willed since birth. I don't know how else to say this, and I know it sounds awful, but she constantly lies, and I swear she is highly manipulative. Some of it is minor, like she swears up and down she has brushed her teeth, "Mom I promise I promise! I'm not lying! I brushed my teeth!", then I go upstairs and her toothbrush is totally dry. But she lies about being sick a LOT to try and get medicine (she likes the taste) or as a excuse to not do something she doesn't want to do. I might in all honesty say, "hmm, if you are having headaches every day we should probably go see the doctor" and she immediately back pedals and screams that she hates the doctor (why?) and doesn't want to go and then eventually admits she is lying. I feel like I've screwed up her whole relationship with going to the doctor now, but damn I DO want to take her to get checked if she's really having headaches(!).

She tells us there is one girl at school that is mean to her, but then when I tell her that I feel like we should speak to the teacher because the things she is saying aren't ok, she again freaks, saying, "It's fine, don't tell the teacher" or "maybe I just don't remember" etc. then admits to making it up. She often purposely mischaracterizes situations for attention or to avoid getting trouble.

I get that it's an attention thing, but she gets a lot of attention at home and other places. She is incredibly cute (very short for her age, hysterical, and has a really fun personality) so she easily attracts attention and is often the teachers pet. To be honest she demands as much attention from everyone around her as they can possibly give.

She doesn't push or hit, but she has trouble giving people personal space because she wants to be all up in their grill ALL the time. My chill 10 YO is in tears or just super angry most afternoons because she needs alone/quiet time, and younger DD can't leave her alone for 5 minutes, even when asked nicely and politely MANY times before hand. By the end of the day we are all exhausted, and I will admit sometimes I lose patience which I know doesn't help anything. She has started yelling at me and being downright disrespectful, so I'm trying soooo hard to not yell anymore.

We do timeouts, consequences like no screen time etc., reward charts, making a HUGE deal of things when she makes good choices/tells the truth, all with minimal success. With the lying, we've gone from explaining what happens when someone can't tell if you're telling the truth or not (Boy who cried wolf type convo), to explaining how dangerous it is to lie about sickness or injury (what if she really IS having headaches ), to explaining how I need to be able to trust her because we need to be a team, and on and on. None of it is clicking at all.

Now within the past 2 weeks, when she gets in trouble or we talk to her, she calls herself mean and stupid and says that we hate her, which is so concerning and it's breaking my heart. She compares herself to her sister and says she wishes she was her(who is a total people pleaser and NEVER gets in trouble). But hand to God sometimes when she says this stuff she is fake crying - trying to get a reaction out of us. I try to end each day discussing several things I think she did well that day and why I'm proud of her and that I will love her no matter what. She's clearly calling out for some sort of help that we aren't giving her. I'm honestly feeling like a total failure as a parent and I don't know where to go from here. Open to therapist and other suggestions.