But again, it's not the job of local law enforcement to find out the status. MoCo police didn't stop and ask for status during Obama administration, and they don't today. I don't see what's changed in that regard.

If MoCo didn't contact ICE at all when they were about to release a violent criminal, then yes, that would be wrong and upsetting, but that is not what happened here.

Also, are you saying that MoCo isn't submitting fingerprints of violent criminals to the FBI database? If they are not, then yes, they would be going against the law, but if they are, then what exactly is MoCo doing wrong?

As you noted in your post, immigration activists were even against Obama's administration on deporting even most violent criminals. Again, I don't see what has changed?

Are you just annoyed that Elrich put out a release that stated that local law enforcement won't be doing the fed's job of asking for legal status and rounding up illegals? It's been that way for a while, so again, not sure why Elrich's press release has you so upset. And btw, I did not vote for Elrich.

I get that. But my question is this - Who at the local level is willing to fight this? I don't want a police state, but the insistence that our own protective forces cannot do this basic, essential job is maddening.

Add to that the hype around sanctuary cities, and this situation further polarizes us. The idea of sanctuary has been around forever but it started in the 80s as a way to protect refugees. At this point, it's been "extended" to protect anyone who's here illegally.

I understand stereotyping. I know that not all illegal immigrants are criminals. But if some a**hole is pulled over for drunk driving and is arrested for almost killing someone, what's the lag time between the the LEA arrest and the ICE contact? And at this point, how does LEA determine if ICE is necessary?

the law - https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-happens-when-undocumented-immigrant-is-caught.html

After you have been arrested, the LEA may decide to contact ICE if it believes that you are an undocumented immigrant. Or, ICE may contact the LEA if it wants to interview you regarding your immigration status, which most often happens when jails input detainee information into databases shared with ICE.

In such cases, ICE will file what's called a "detainer." This means that ICE cannot get to you immediately, but is asking the police or jail to hold you for an additional amount of time so that ICE can interview you at a later time to determine whether or not to place you into removal (deportation) proceedings.

Whether or not the LEA complies with the detainer can vary widely depending on the agency, since compliance is voluntary.

Under the law, the maximum amount of additional time that someone can be held on ICE's behalf is 48 hours. If ICE does not take custody of you within those 48 hours, the law says you must be released.

So it's a big, fat guessing game that's also time-dependent.

inefficient and potentially dangerous

Why don't people question these practices? Elrich is a politician who's out for himself, as are most politicians.

unbelievable

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Eager to hear Liberals here respond to OP’s excellent questions....

They can't respond.

Obama was the worst President for immigrants and for immigration in a generation.

And the media covered it for eight years.

Mexican immigration under Obama was a net negative.

Not true.

(Yes, immigration in 2009-10 was lower given great recession, but it recovered quickly. And in any case Obama just kicked the problem along)

It was still - imo - a** backward. If you enter the country ILLEGALLY, I want to know as much as possible about your background. I want to know who you are. Sure people can lie, and certainly there are people who can live here - illegally - for years before committing heinous acts. But if we overlook status, don't you think these crimes will continue under the radar for a longer period of time? And the chances of someone illegal staying in the same place for a long duration are slim to none. Transience, in other words, is high.

I don't think we need to conduct RAIDS in order to find out status. There are more humane ways of gathering information, but yes, I'd like to know.

Nobody is saying not to do that.

But it is ICE’s job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Eager to hear Liberals here respond to OP’s excellent questions....

I don't know any liberals who want to protect violent criminals.

Also, your quote on Elrich:

", according to Elrich, "Our law enforcement and other support agencies will continue to follow local laws, rules and regulations. As a matter of policy, we do not inquire about anyone's immigration status to support immigration enforcement, nor do we conduct immigration raids or investigations." "

How is that counter to Obama's administration? Local law enforcement aren't supposed to be doing the job of the feds. Did Obama administration ask MoCo to do immigration raids and ask every brown looking person what their legal status is?

From an article I read, Moco law enforcement did contact ICE about this guy being released. There is a local ICE unit in Baltimore that could've come and gotten him.

I'm 100% ok with ICE and local law enforcement going after violent criminals, of any persuasion be they legally here or not. So, why isn't ICE spending it's limited time and resources and doing this rather than raiding farms and meat packing plants rounding up workers?

I read that same article. (OP here)

But bureaucratic measures send a message - https://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2019/07/leaders-in-montgomery-co-will-not-cooperate-with-ice/

Montgomery County Executive Marc Elrich aims to put distance between Maryland’s most populous county and federal immigration authorities by signing an executive order Monday.

Elrich said he wants to tell all county agencies that they are not allowed to ask people about their immigration status or cooperate with Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

“The Promoting Community Trust Executive Order aims to reaffirm current county policy and improve community security by ensuring that immigrant and otherwise vulnerable communities can engage with county departments,” Elrich’s office said in a statement.

Jones said if ICE seeks to deport someone who is in police custody, then ICE needs to track that person independently and deal with the situation without the police department’s assistance.

So while this has been the practice, I fail to see how it's good practice. It's very hard to know a person's background when s/he is under the radar. This protects the predators who have ruined the lives of women and children.

If you've got a clean record (immigration status aside), what's the fear?? And how many other countries give illegal immigrants the benefit of the doubt?

We may look at the stats and think - "Eh, it's only 6 predators and a few kids and women. Statistics are low. Women and children are harmed daily by our local 'homegrown' folks. " This is the main argument I hear.

But w/o knowing each person's background in depth (b/c you know those rapists and pedophiles were doing the same thing back home), you put ALL children and women at risk - both legal and undocumented.


PEP - under Obama - I provided the link in the original post.

How it works

PEP begins at the state and local level when an individual is arrested and booked by a law enforcement officer for a criminal violation and his or her fingerprints are submitted to the FBI for criminal history and warrant checks. This same biometric data is also sent to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) so that ICE can determine whether the individual is a priority for removal, consistent with the DHS enforcement priorities described in former Secretary Johnson’s November 20, 2014 Secure Communities memorandum. Under PEP, ICE will seek the transfer of a removable individual when that individual has been convicted of an offense listed under the DHS civil immigration enforcement priorities, has intentionally participated in an organized criminal gang to further the illegal activity of the gang, or poses a danger to national security.

It was still - imo - a** backward. If you enter the country ILLEGALLY, I want to know as much as possible about your background. I want to know who you are. Sure people can lie, and certainly there are people who can live here - illegally - for years before committing heinous acts. But if we overlook status, don't you think these crimes will continue under the radar for a longer period of time? And the chances of someone illegal staying in the same place for a long duration are slim to none. Transience, in other words, is high.

I don't think we need to conduct RAIDS in order to find out status. There are more humane ways of gathering information, but yes, I'd like to know.

But again, it's not the job of local law enforcement to find out the status. MoCo police didn't stop and ask for status during Obama administration, and they don't today. I don't see what's changed in that regard.

If MoCo didn't contact ICE at all when they were about to release a violent criminal, then yes, that would be wrong and upsetting, but that is not what happened here.

Also, are you saying that MoCo isn't submitting fingerprints of violent criminals to the FBI database? If they are not, then yes, they would be going against the law, but if they are, then what exactly is MoCo doing wrong?

As you noted in your post, immigration activists were even against Obama's administration on deporting even most violent criminals. Again, I don't see what has changed?

Are you just annoyed that Elrich put out a release that stated that local law enforcement won't be doing the fed's job of asking for legal status and rounding up illegals? It's been that way for a while, so again, not sure why Elrich's press release has you so upset. And btw, I did not vote for Elrich.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Eager to hear Liberals here respond to OP’s excellent questions....

They can't respond.

Obama was the worst President for immigrants and for immigration in a generation.

And the media covered it for eight years.

? Reading comprehension issues. There were some good responses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Eager to hear Liberals here respond to OP’s excellent questions....

I don't know any liberals who want to protect violent criminals.

Also, your quote on Elrich:

", according to Elrich, "Our law enforcement and other support agencies will continue to follow local laws, rules and regulations. As a matter of policy, we do not inquire about anyone's immigration status to support immigration enforcement, nor do we conduct immigration raids or investigations." "

How is that counter to Obama's administration? Local law enforcement aren't supposed to be doing the job of the feds. Did Obama administration ask MoCo to do immigration raids and ask every brown looking person what their legal status is?

From an article I read, Moco law enforcement did contact ICE about this guy being released. There is a local ICE unit in Baltimore that could've come and gotten him.

I'm 100% ok with ICE and local law enforcement going after violent criminals, of any persuasion be they legally here or not. So, why isn't ICE spending it's limited time and resources and doing this rather than raiding farms and meat packing plants rounding up workers?

I read that same article. (OP here)

But bureaucratic measures send a message - https://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2019/07/leaders-in-montgomery-co-will-not-cooperate-with-ice/

Montgomery County Executive Marc Elrich aims to put distance between Maryland’s most populous county and federal immigration authorities by signing an executive order Monday.

Elrich said he wants to tell all county agencies that they are not allowed to ask people about their immigration status or cooperate with Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

“The Promoting Community Trust Executive Order aims to reaffirm current county policy and improve community security by ensuring that immigrant and otherwise vulnerable communities can engage with county departments,” Elrich’s office said in a statement.

Jones said if ICE seeks to deport someone who is in police custody, then ICE needs to track that person independently and deal with the situation without the police department’s assistance.

So while this has been the practice, I fail to see how it's good practice. It's very hard to know a person's background when s/he is under the radar. This protects the predators who have ruined the lives of women and children.

If you've got a clean record (immigration status aside), what's the fear?? And how many other countries give illegal immigrants the benefit of the doubt?

We may look at the stats and think - "Eh, it's only 6 predators and a few kids and women. Statistics are low. Women and children are harmed daily by our local 'homegrown' folks. " This is the main argument I hear.

But w/o knowing each person's background in depth (b/c you know those rapists and pedophiles were doing the same thing back home), you put ALL children and women at risk - both legal and undocumented.


PEP - under Obama - I provided the link in the original post.

How it works

PEP begins at the state and local level when an individual is arrested and booked by a law enforcement officer for a criminal violation and his or her fingerprints are submitted to the FBI for criminal history and warrant checks. This same biometric data is also sent to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) so that ICE can determine whether the individual is a priority for removal, consistent with the DHS enforcement priorities described in former Secretary Johnson’s November 20, 2014 Secure Communities memorandum. Under PEP, ICE will seek the transfer of a removable individual when that individual has been convicted of an offense listed under the DHS civil immigration enforcement priorities, has intentionally participated in an organized criminal gang to further the illegal activity of the gang, or poses a danger to national security.

It was still - imo - a** backward. If you enter the country ILLEGALLY, I want to know as much as possible about your background. I want to know who you are. Sure people can lie, and certainly there are people who can live here - illegally - for years before committing heinous acts. But if we overlook status, don't you think these crimes will continue under the radar for a longer period of time? And the chances of someone illegal staying in the same place for a long duration are slim to none. Transience, in other words, is high.

I don't think we need to conduct RAIDS in order to find out status. There are more humane ways of gathering information, but yes, I'd like to know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Eager to hear Liberals here respond to OP’s excellent questions....

They can't respond.

Obama was the worst President for immigrants and for immigration in a generation.

And the media covered it for eight years.

Mexican immigration under Obama was a net negative.

Anonymous wrote:
Eager to hear Liberals here respond to OP’s excellent questions....

They can't respond.

Obama was the worst President for immigrants and for immigration in a generation.

And the media covered it for eight years.

So, you asked what someone would say and I'm going to tell you what they would say.

1. Municipal and local law enforcement should not be doing the work of federal immigration authorities. So, they are not participating in raids and they are not asking about immigration status when folks are picked up for minor infractions.

2. When someone is picked up for a crime, they are innocent until proven guilty.

3. So, if they can make bail, they should not be deported simply based on their immigration status. Even if the crime is horrendous. Just as a US citizen accused of a horrible crime would be released if they made bail.

4. MoCo has decided that undocumented immigrants should be treated just as US citizens are when it comes to presumption of innocence, for better or for worse.

Now, I'm conflicted on a lot of these points but that's the argument.

My H was a major crimes investigator under both Obama and Trump and before.

Under Obama, the police had a very close relationship with ICE and were able to deport criminals, especially ones they knew were guilty but could not prove. It was a much better situation than previously. More immigrants were deported under Obama than any other time in his career. ICE is not the greatest organization. The staff is low level, traning and intelligence. But they made it work. They often deported witnesses, making it impossible to make a case.

It is neither better or worse under Trump because Trump is ineffective, he does nothing. He does not run law enforcement, he does not do anything actually.

You can't ask citizenship information during (for example) a traffic stop ... because if a white male in Potomac can't prove his citizenship and he is detained their would be hell to pay.

My H mentioned over the past 15 years how the newspaper often gets information wrong or people don't know the difference between a police report (which is full of lies and mistakes) and an actual police investigation (which is backed with evidence, not just witness statements). Also, WP only reports stories that sell. Dead white girls and immigration rapes.

The states attorney would grandstand whenever their was a story that sold papers and rarely gave resources to murders/rapes that did not give him press time.

So ... the big story is immigrants and even though there were 500 rapes last year the only ones that make the paper are teachers and immigrants.

It's a whole bunch of the tail wagging the dog.

Clearly, my H is not a liberal... but FFS... Trump is a disaster and he can recognize Obama was a much better and effective president.

Erlich is a disaster... but Hogan is also not doing such a great job.

I think people need to stop say republican this/liberal that and understand the world they live in and make laws that are effective.

Anonymous wrote:
Eager to hear Liberals here respond to OP’s excellent questions....

Not all liberals are immigration activists. You'd have to ask the immigration activists this question, not your run of the mill liberal.

I am not al liberal, but my spouse and friends are, and none of them are for not deporting violent criminals. I think they would also love to deport American violent criminals, too, but that's not possible, unfortunately.

Anonymous wrote:
Eager to hear Liberals here respond to OP’s excellent questions....

I don't know any liberals who want to protect violent criminals.

Also, your quote on Elrich:

", according to Elrich, "Our law enforcement and other support agencies will continue to follow local laws, rules and regulations. As a matter of policy, we do not inquire about anyone's immigration status to support immigration enforcement, nor do we conduct immigration raids or investigations." "

How is that counter to Obama's administration? Local law enforcement aren't supposed to be doing the job of the feds. Did Obama administration ask MoCo to do immigration raids and ask every brown looking person what their legal status is?

From an article I read, Moco law enforcement did contact ICE about this guy being released. There is a local ICE unit in Baltimore that could've come and gotten him.

I'm 100% ok with ICE and local law enforcement going after violent criminals, of any persuasion be they legally here or not. So, why isn't ICE spending it's limited time and resources and doing this rather than raiding farms and meat packing plants rounding up workers?

Eager to hear Liberals here respond to OP’s excellent questions....

The response to your last question OP is usually some form of "you have to crack a few eggs to make an omlette" type statement. Not all immigrants, blah blah blah. Essentially nothing will be done

I've been following the story about the 6th illegal immigrant caught in Mo Co for sexual offenses. Although we are no longer in that county, I have friends and family who are not happy with this open-door policy, especially since it's making national news. The county says it's technically NOT a sanctuary city, even though, according to Elrich, "Our law enforcement and other support agencies will continue to follow local laws, rules and regulations. As a matter of policy, we do not inquire about anyone's immigration status to support immigration enforcement, nor do we conduct immigration raids or investigations."

The resistance to common sense measures is baffling, as people seem to forget how immigration was handled under Obama. While this topic has been raised many times, I'm sharing this editorial from 2015 -WP - in order to support why people are appalled with today's situation. I believe it's worthy of its own thread. The latest (#6) was Nestor Lopez-Guzman, who repeatedly molested a 12 yo girl and her brother. The county can thank County Executive Elrich for allowing this to happen.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/larry-hogans-common-sense-on-illegal-immigration/2015/08/14/aad8d862-41f0-11e5-8e7d-9c033e6745d8_story.html
Larry Hogan’s common sense on illegal immigration

I'm also sharing a link to the Priority Enforcement Program, included in the article, which is now known as ICE: https://www.ice.gov/pep


some highlights from the WP article:

MARYLAND GOV. Larry Hogan, whose record in his first seven months in office qualifies him as among the nation’s least partisan Republican chief executives, is under unfair attack from immigration activists. They’re unhappy that he is cooperating with the Obama administration’s new — and far more lenient — policy on detaining and deporting undocumented immigrants.

The governor is the target of criticism mainly because immigration activists apparently oppose deportation in practically every instance, without regard to whether a deportee is a felon, terrorist, repeat offender, domestic abuser or sexual predator. How else to understand why they would seek to undercut the Obama administration’s policy, announced last fall and in effect since July 1, known as the Priority Enforcement Program?

Under that program, the Department of Homeland Security requests cooperation from local law enforcement agencies preparing to release certain undocumented immigrants from jail. The department wants a heads-up before they are released so federal agents can detain them and process them for deportation — but only if they fit in certain well-defined categories.

Under that program, the Department of Homeland Security requests cooperation from local law enforcement agencies preparing to release certain undocumented immigrants from jail. The department wants a heads-up before they are released so federal agents can detain them and process them for deportation — but only if they fit in certain well-defined categories.

categories: gang members; convicted felons; domestic and sexual abusers; drug dealers and drunk drivers


I'm not a Trump supporter; I voted for Obama both times. But I do examine our trends. Family separation aside (That's a whole other thread), I am simply asking why Obama's measures, once praised by Democrats, are considered damaging today.

So what do you tell to the 12 yo girl and her brother who were molested - or the 11 yo girl who was repeatedly raped - or the 16 yo girl who was raped at knifepoint? that their lives don't matter?