Anonymous
07/31/2019 14:07
Subject: Comparing public elementary schools across states
OP I think the problem is that even if there were a great tool that did what you wanted and could compare and contrast DC vs MD vs VA, it is still not going to make your decision for you. State level comparisons of (all of) MD and (all of) VA just wouldn’t be terribly meaningful for the specific move you are considering. You need to compare neighborhood you are in to those you would move to and that ultimately seems like it comes down to you researching neighborhoods and schools to move to, with or without some state-to-state tool.
Anonymous
07/31/2019 13:15
Subject: Re:Comparing public elementary schools across states
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the posts above. So my suspicion is right - no (comparable) data out there as it looks now to conduct such analysis.
I do appreciate the demographics factor view. What bothers me is that it is a word of the mouth which drives perceptions, and not data.
Cross-state comparisons would make it plain and simple clear which state/county is failing its kids. And which state/county provides lessons to learn from.
Foundation for the future is laid at the elementary level. Then why comparable data issue is not a federal concern?
So I'm confused. Are you just worried that your friends will think your child attends a bad school?
OP: of course not - I just want to understand it based on data. That’s all. Plus, if there is a gap, how bad is it.
I appreciate other responses above - thanks so much. Will look into cited research later today.
Anonymous
07/31/2019 11:51
Subject: Comparing public elementary schools across states
The Nytimes has a way to compare across districts and states. A group at Stanfrod took all the standardized testing data from 3rd-8th and did statistical magic on it to make them "equivalent" to detect _growth_ in achievement over time for the average student.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/05/upshot/a-better-way-to-compare-public-schools.html
Washington DC kids "grew" 5.1 years between 3rd-8th
Mont. Cty grew 5.0 years
Fairfax Cty grew 4.9 yrs
Note, of course, that the average Washington DC kid starts a lot lower than the average Fairfax kid, so take that for what you will.
Somehow Lexington Mass kids, despite starting high, grow 6.3 years. Perhaps it's due to lots of Kumon or Russian School of Math after school? Or maybe the school district is actually much better.
For data on individual elementary schools within a district, you can look on greatschools for "growth" scores at the individual school level. I konw in my state (PA) indidvidual school growth scores can also be found on a state website. This gives you some insight into how much the kids improve between 3rd-5th on math and ELA in that school. (Which might not be the same as actually being a great school, but is an interesting data point.)
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/05/upshot/a-better-way-to-compare-public-schools.html
Washington DC kids "grew" 5.1 years between 3rd-8th
Mont. Cty grew 5.0 years
Fairfax Cty grew 4.9 yrs
Note, of course, that the average Washington DC kid starts a lot lower than the average Fairfax kid, so take that for what you will.
Somehow Lexington Mass kids, despite starting high, grow 6.3 years. Perhaps it's due to lots of Kumon or Russian School of Math after school? Or maybe the school district is actually much better.
For data on individual elementary schools within a district, you can look on greatschools for "growth" scores at the individual school level. I konw in my state (PA) indidvidual school growth scores can also be found on a state website. This gives you some insight into how much the kids improve between 3rd-5th on math and ELA in that school. (Which might not be the same as actually being a great school, but is an interesting data point.)
Anonymous
07/31/2019 10:33
Subject: Re:Comparing public elementary schools across states
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the posts above. So my suspicion is right - no (comparable) data out there as it looks now to conduct such analysis.
I do appreciate the demographics factor view. What bothers me is that it is a word of the mouth which drives perceptions, and not data.
Cross-state comparisons would make it plain and simple clear which state/county is failing its kids. And which state/county provides lessons to learn from.
Foundation for the future is laid at the elementary level. Then why comparable data issue is not a federal concern?
So I'm confused. Are you just worried that your friends will think your child attends a bad school?
dcmom
07/31/2019 09:42
Subject: Re:Comparing public elementary schools across states
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the posts above. So my suspicion is right - no (comparable) data out there as it looks now to conduct such analysis.
I do appreciate the demographics factor view. What bothers me is that it is a word of the mouth which drives perceptions, and not data.
Cross-state comparisons would make it plain and simple clear which state/county is failing its kids. And which state/county provides lessons to learn from.
Foundation for the future is laid at the elementary level. Then why comparable data issue is not a federal concern?
Education is a State responsibility so each state sets its own educational policy and standards. There have been attempts to standardized educational policy across states, see the common core, but that has been actively resisted in some states and run into resistance in other places.
Kids with involved parents who are invested in their kids tend to do well in school regardless of where they live. But there are some areas that have better schools then others. It is up to you to decide if you want to move to an area with a shorter commute for you (2 hours sucks) but might not have the educational support that you desire. I don't know enough about DC Public Schools but it sure sounds like a mix bag with some great options that are harder to get into and some not so great options. Research the individual schools in the area you are moving to and decide if those work for you. Or be prepared to go private.
Or move so that your commute is cut in half, an hour, and choose a house in an area with a known strong school district.
But you are not going to find stats for comparison because each state has its own policy and own measuring tools.
OP can move to in-boundary for an excellent DCPS and her kids will have the right to go there starting in K. No lotteries for inbound schools at that point. I don’t have experience with VA schools, but we used to be DCPS and now are MCPS and found DCPS to be better for ES. We haven’t dealt with MS and HS yet.
Anonymous
07/31/2019 09:27
Subject: Comparing public elementary schools across states
Anonymous wrote:We did it. We lived in MoCo, in one of the "W" districts. My husband's commute was close to an hour some days, and he would get sleepy commuting back late at night and almost crashed his car on one occasion (job requires late hours). We had a toddler.
We decided to bite the bullet and buy in NW DC. Husband's commute is now 15-20 min. We benefited from free PK3/4, and so far our child is doing wonderfully in elementary. There are plenty of highly educated families in our neighborhood also sending kids to public school, and their kids are doing well.
If you are as risk-averse as many of us, I would only do it if you have the budget to buy in-boundary for Wilson, in one of the NW neighborhoods. Otherwise, even if you lottery into a good charter, people often say education in DC is a year to year decision. Charters that work well in PK sometimes don't work well by the upper grades, or there isn't a "path" to middle/high school.
I'd also check the real estate forum, where this question re: moving back to DC has been posed recently.
Good luck with your decision!
P.S. I should have mentioned that my commute got slightly longer when we moved to DC. However, I was able to change jobs for a higher paying one in DC, given the shorter commute.
Anonymous
07/31/2019 09:26
Subject: Comparing public elementary schools across states
We did it. We lived in MoCo, in one of the "W" districts. My husband's commute was close to an hour some days, and he would get sleepy commuting back late at night and almost crashed his car on one occasion (job requires late hours). We had a toddler.
We decided to bite the bullet and buy in NW DC. Husband's commute is now 15-20 min. We benefited from free PK3/4, and so far our child is doing wonderfully in elementary. There are plenty of highly educated families in our neighborhood also sending kids to public school, and their kids are doing well.
If you are as risk-averse as many of us, I would only do it if you have the budget to buy in-boundary for Wilson, in one of the NW neighborhoods. Otherwise, even if you lottery into a good charter, people often say education in DC is a year to year decision. Charters that work well in PK sometimes don't work well by the upper grades, or there isn't a "path" to middle/high school.
I'd also check the real estate forum, where this question re: moving back to DC has been posed recently.
Good luck with your decision!
We decided to bite the bullet and buy in NW DC. Husband's commute is now 15-20 min. We benefited from free PK3/4, and so far our child is doing wonderfully in elementary. There are plenty of highly educated families in our neighborhood also sending kids to public school, and their kids are doing well.
If you are as risk-averse as many of us, I would only do it if you have the budget to buy in-boundary for Wilson, in one of the NW neighborhoods. Otherwise, even if you lottery into a good charter, people often say education in DC is a year to year decision. Charters that work well in PK sometimes don't work well by the upper grades, or there isn't a "path" to middle/high school.
I'd also check the real estate forum, where this question re: moving back to DC has been posed recently.
Good luck with your decision!
Anonymous
07/31/2019 09:08
Subject: Re:Comparing public elementary schools across states
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the posts above. So my suspicion is right - no (comparable) data out there as it looks now to conduct such analysis.
I do appreciate the demographics factor view. What bothers me is that it is a word of the mouth which drives perceptions, and not data.
Cross-state comparisons would make it plain and simple clear which state/county is failing its kids. And which state/county provides lessons to learn from.
Foundation for the future is laid at the elementary level. Then why comparable data issue is not a federal concern?
The foundation may be laid in elementary school but the results are shown in high school. It's a lot easier (though still not straightforward) to compare high schools across state lines. Graduation and literacy rates, SAT scores, AP test results, etc.
Anonymous
07/31/2019 09:08
Subject: Re:Comparing public elementary schools across states
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the posts above. So my suspicion is right - no (comparable) data out there as it looks now to conduct such analysis.
I do appreciate the demographics factor view. What bothers me is that it is a word of the mouth which drives perceptions, and not data.
Cross-state comparisons would make it plain and simple clear which state/county is failing its kids. And which state/county provides lessons to learn from.
Foundation for the future is laid at the elementary level. Then why comparable data issue is not a federal concern?
Education is a State responsibility so each state sets its own educational policy and standards. There have been attempts to standardized educational policy across states, see the common core, but that has been actively resisted in some states and run into resistance in other places.
Kids with involved parents who are invested in their kids tend to do well in school regardless of where they live. But there are some areas that have better schools then others. It is up to you to decide if you want to move to an area with a shorter commute for you (2 hours sucks) but might not have the educational support that you desire. I don't know enough about DC Public Schools but it sure sounds like a mix bag with some great options that are harder to get into and some not so great options. Research the individual schools in the area you are moving to and decide if those work for you. Or be prepared to go private.
Or move so that your commute is cut in half, an hour, and choose a house in an area with a known strong school district.
But you are not going to find stats for comparison because each state has its own policy and own measuring tools.
Anonymous
07/31/2019 09:00
Subject: Re:Comparing public elementary schools across states
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the posts above. So my suspicion is right - no (comparable) data out there as it looks now to conduct such analysis.
I do appreciate the demographics factor view. What bothers me is that it is a word of the mouth which drives perceptions, and not data.
Cross-state comparisons would make it plain and simple clear which state/county is failing its kids. And which state/county provides lessons to learn from.
Foundation for the future is laid at the elementary level. Then why comparable data issue is not a federal concern?
To have comparable data you would need a standardized elementary curriculum. That won't happen so long as some states reserve the right to taiilor their curricular materials and teach kids Jesus rode a dinosaur.
Anonymous
07/31/2019 08:43
Subject: Re:Comparing public elementary schools across states
OP here. Thanks for the posts above. So my suspicion is right - no (comparable) data out there as it looks now to conduct such analysis.
I do appreciate the demographics factor view. What bothers me is that it is a word of the mouth which drives perceptions, and not data.
Cross-state comparisons would make it plain and simple clear which state/county is failing its kids. And which state/county provides lessons to learn from.
Foundation for the future is laid at the elementary level. Then why comparable data issue is not a federal concern?
I do appreciate the demographics factor view. What bothers me is that it is a word of the mouth which drives perceptions, and not data.
Cross-state comparisons would make it plain and simple clear which state/county is failing its kids. And which state/county provides lessons to learn from.
Foundation for the future is laid at the elementary level. Then why comparable data issue is not a federal concern?
Anonymous
07/31/2019 08:00
Subject: Comparing public elementary schools across states
Anonymous wrote:Short answer - no. There is no national standardized elementary level test. Maryland and DC both take the PARCC, or did, but even that was tailored for each state's curriculum.
Basically, PP is right. Scores are just going to tell you about demographics anyway.
+1
Also, there are lots of good DCPS schools. DC is full of educated parents with stable homes sending their kids to DCPS, where those kids show up prepared and ready to learn, with tons of extracurricular enrichment of various kinds.
Anonymous
07/31/2019 07:26
Subject: Comparing public elementary schools across states
Short answer - no. There is no national standardized elementary level test. Maryland and DC both take the PARCC, or did, but even that was tailored for each state's curriculum.
Basically, PP is right. Scores are just going to tell you about demographics anyway.
Basically, PP is right. Scores are just going to tell you about demographics anyway.
Anonymous
07/31/2019 07:06
Subject: Comparing public elementary schools across states
OP, you are assuming that differences in educational outcomes and test scores are due to the school’s themselves. But the reality is that they are mostly a reflection of the demographics of the school. Your kids will be find in a DCPS or charter.
Anonymous
07/30/2019 23:28
Subject: Comparing public elementary schools across states
Is there educational achievement data to compare elementary schools ACROSS states (e.g, I want to run a comparison across DC Maryland and Virginia)?
I keep hearing that Fairfax county schools are so much better than DCPS - I want to know exactly how much better... I’m not education specialist, but know how to work with data. Will dig on this on my own further, but your inputs will help too.
Any references would be much appreciated. Thanks.
PS: I’m weighing a move back to dc b/c my current at least 2h commute every day is killing me. But that move will be bad for DS’ school/extracurricular ... but how bad?
I keep hearing that Fairfax county schools are so much better than DCPS - I want to know exactly how much better... I’m not education specialist, but know how to work with data. Will dig on this on my own further, but your inputs will help too.
Any references would be much appreciated. Thanks.
PS: I’m weighing a move back to dc b/c my current at least 2h commute every day is killing me. But that move will be bad for DS’ school/extracurricular ... but how bad?