so you have a stay-at-home father and you are considering divorcing him.

All things being equal then he should get the kids and you should pay child support and alimony. You should move out of the house and he gets to keep it.

He is supporting you in your career. Without him your career would not be possible. He is at home doing unpaid labor while take advantage of that labor and spend your day having fun at work.

I would push him really hard to do a partial hospitalization program for depression and anxiety. That may sound extreme, but if he doesn't need to be hospitalized but can't function enough in his life to take on basic responsibilities and have a job he needs serious intervention. In your situation, I would do the research, schedule, bully him into attending, and drop him off at the program in the morning (programs generally end midday or early afternoon so he could pick the kids up). It's in your interest to get him some intensive help, and it's also in his interest-he is living a pretty miserable life right now.

Anonymous wrote:My DH worked term/contract jobs in his field (considered very unprestigious and somewhat stigmatized, but it paid *some* bills) and kept up his general skills. He traded that up to more legit contract jobs -- filling in for professionals on maternity leave, working substantively on a 6-month long project, etc... -- to fill in his resume. He eventually got a FT "good" job in his area of desired speciality because someone took a chance on him (I actually found the posting for him!). Did that for a few years, pay was abysmal, then finally got into the Fed. That was 5+ years ago and now he is a typical corporate person making great money. But we are about 10 years behind our peers financially.

I guess the point is he didn't give up. I wished he had abandoned his field many times, but he didn't. Many years of struggle, he was demoralized, but it worked out. I do think his insistence of sticking with his field and taking what he could for little pay did help bolster his resume in the end. Also, he is pretty likable, so friends were willing to help him all along by passing his resume up the chain.

Short answer: a combination of sticktoitiveness and luck.

Thank you. This is helpful. I'm glad it's worked out for him. It's hard to see the light at the end of the extended unemployment tunnel.

Anonymous wrote:If he’s a full partner in parenting and not working, is he doing most of the doctor appointments, dentist, meal prep, childcare? A stay at home spouse is better than a non-working ex, I’d think.

OP here: I'm the default parent for all the doctors' appointments, any family travel, all bill paying, setting up and monitoring 529s, kids' clothing, school research/lottery/registration -- all that stuff. He's classic poor executive functioning -- may want to schedule a medical appointment for himself, but needs to be reminded or he needs help identifying a doctor, then either forgets to go or gets anxious and bails.

We're about 50-50 on meal prep and he probably covers about one or two extra hours a day of child care during the week (after school and before I get home, or if I have to go to work early). He does most of the school pick up and drop off (school is one block away). He usually does the dishes but the house is a mess when I get home.

I think the main difference is we were to divorce would be that I'd have to make dinner more.

I TOTALLY understand a few of the posters saying it's the same as supporting a stay at home mom. Most stay at home moms would be the default parent and be expected to manage the house, or at least oversee someone else doing it (housekeeper). That's not the case here.

Anonymous wrote:My brother pays his ex alimony bc she doesn't work. She has never worked due to depression or whatever her shrink attested to and they don't have kids. It sucks. She has no incentive either. between the 65k she gets from him and the rest from her parents.but it's state by state too. He is in an alimony friendly state. He is trying to limit it to 10 years but it's still crazy. It's more than 1/2 his take home income and much more than most child support I've heard of.

This is absolutely crazy. I understand if they had kids but if you divorce I don't understand still being responsible for another adult. Her depression should no longer be his problem. Crazy.

My DH worked term/contract jobs in his field (considered very unprestigious and somewhat stigmatized, but it paid *some* bills) and kept up his general skills. He traded that up to more legit contract jobs -- filling in for professionals on maternity leave, working substantively on a 6-month long project, etc... -- to fill in his resume. He eventually got a FT "good" job in his area of desired speciality because someone took a chance on him (I actually found the posting for him!). Did that for a few years, pay was abysmal, then finally got into the Fed. That was 5+ years ago and now he is a typical corporate person making great money. But we are about 10 years behind our peers financially.

I guess the point is he didn't give up. I wished he had abandoned his field many times, but he didn't. Many years of struggle, he was demoralized, but it worked out. I do think his insistence of sticking with his field and taking what he could for little pay did help bolster his resume in the end. Also, he is pretty likable, so friends were willing to help him all along by passing his resume up the chain.

Short answer: a combination of sticktoitiveness and luck.

Anonymous wrote:Once over age 50 it is very, very hard to change careers. Does he have a degree? Can that degree at least guarantee a entry level job some where? Is he doesn't have a degree, then the best well paying jobs to get into are real estate or car sales particularly if he presents well to others.

The flip side of this is opportunity cost. Does the job pay well enough to offset the costs of child care expenses, professional clothing, travel, time away from home, taking care of family, etc. Will the job also increase your tax rate. For a hole bunch of reasons, sometimes it can be better to stay at home.

It might be worth it for him to work even if you only break even after taking consideration the opportunity cost. For many people, men especially, one's sense of worth is tied to be a productive (i.e. employed) member of society. A job will get him out of the house, introduce him to people and give him a sense of purpose, which could help with his depression. Moreover, most jobs have some upward mobility. Even a french fry man at McDonalds can become shift supervisor, store manager, district manager, etc.

I'm a full professor at a prestigious university now but have worked as a messenger, life guard, assembly line factory worker previously. There's nothing wrong with taking a low level job to get your foot in the door/make some money.

Welcome to a man's world. Isn't it great

Have you spoken with an attorney? That might help.

I would do that, then decide how to approach the question of diagnosis and treatment. It might be where you tell him it's see a psychiatrist and start therapy or divorce--or there might be another way to go about it.

He needs to lower his expectations if he intends to return to work. If he doesn't want to work (I suspect this is the case) there isn't anything you can really do about it unless you want to divorce.

My brother pays his ex alimony bc she doesn't work. She has never worked due to depression or whatever her shrink attested to and they don't have kids. It sucks. She has no incentive either. between the 65k she gets from him and the rest from her parents.but it's state by state too. He is in an alimony friendly state. He is trying to limit it to 10 years but it's still crazy. It's more than 1/2 his take home income and much more than most child support I've heard of.

If he’s a full partner in parenting and not working, is he doing most of the doctor appointments, dentist, meal prep, childcare? A stay at home spouse is better than a non-working ex, I’d think.

Once over age 50 it is very, very hard to change careers. Does he have a degree? Can that degree at least guarantee a entry level job some where? Is he doesn't have a degree, then the best well paying jobs to get into are real estate or car sales particularly if he presents well to others.

The flip side of this is opportunity cost. Does the job pay well enough to offset the costs of child care expenses, professional clothing, travel, time away from home, taking care of family, etc. Will the job also increase your tax rate. For a hole bunch of reasons, sometimes it can be better to stay at home.

SAHMs get back into the workforce all the time. They change fields/go back to school/start entry level; they go back into their original field at a lower level; sometimes they launch their own successful businesses.

And working men who want to divorce their SAHM wives face the same alimony/child support dilemma that you do.

Equality, baby.

If your spouse or partner was unemployed long term (like 3-5 years or more), how did it get resolved? Did he or she get a job in the same industry but at a lower level? Decide to do unskilled or blue collar labor? Never really work again?

Did you divorce? If so, did you end up paying high amounts of child support and alimony because he or she had no recent record of earning a salary? Did the courts take into account that your ex-spouse was physically capable of working when doing the calculations?

My spouse has now been unemployed so many years that I can't imagine anyone hiring him. The jobs he talks about applying for (but doesn't) are totally out of reach -- they would have been realistic years ago, but not anymore. He has a couple people (friend, family) that could probably get him a low-level job, but they live very far away in places I would never move to.

Yes, he is depressed, says he has (undiagnosed) anxiety, and he's got executive function issues (not sure if it's linked to ADD or something like that). He won't go on medication or therapy "because they don't work."

I'm feeling stuck because if I divorce I'll have to pay him tremendous amounts of child support according to all the calculators. I think sometimes it's better to keep him around because he's not a big spender and he is a full partner in caring for our (young) children. I don't love him anymore and wouldn't miss him if he were gone, but I can't afford to pay child support in the required amounts.

I want to believe that he can work again, but I see no evidence of that right now.