Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:52
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
I said months ago that this issue would determine who the next president is.
I was right. It's come up on multiple threads in different versions.
illegal vs. legal pathways . . . where do you draw the line??
I was right. It's come up on multiple threads in different versions.
illegal vs. legal pathways . . . where do you draw the line??
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:51
Subject: Re:immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Just stop.
Illegal immigration is wrong. Period.
Legal immigration is great - let's stop illegal immigration so we can have more legal immigration.
And this statement...."If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform."............
If you really believe this, you need to inform your candidates. Because, their statements indicate that they are just fine with illegal immigration.
DP here but you know that Trump is being advised by people who hate the idea of any immigrants coming here. Can you not acknowledge that? And meanwhile Trump himself says he only wants immigrants with high level skills, never mind he relaxes rules for his own properties to hire low skill immigrants and that many low skill jobs are being left infilled because people aren’t applying for them. Can you not acknowledge that?
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:49
Subject: Re:immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just stop.
Illegal immigration is wrong. Period.
Legal immigration is great - let's stop illegal immigration so we can have more legal immigration.
And this statement...."If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform."............
If you really believe this, you need to inform your candidates. Because, their statements indicate that they are just fine with illegal immigration.
You do realize that republicans pay lip service to illegal immigration while turning a blind eye to businesses that employ them (or in many cases, like the Prez, employing them themselves), right? Have you informed your elected officials that you’d like less grandstanding at the border and actual action to curb illegal immigration?
This is a feature, not a bug. Keeping the unskilled workforce undocumented allows capital to further suppress labor rights, which in turn, hurts the ability of everyone to organize. Although I have posted extensively on here about how illegal and legal immigration are a net positive to the economy, research does show that it depresses wages for native-born low-skilled workers. What we need is not fewer immigrants, but rather full legal status for all workers.
See, I wish the Dem candidates would say something like this, and keep repeating. The weird litmus test yes/no questions are not really getting to the heart of the problem and only serve to polarize voters one way or another.
Agreed. I want real defined answers as to how we create paths to legal citizenship and/or legal labor. It’s not enough to hear that no human is illegal. I need to know how you, as a candidate, plan to fix this broken system. Because we DO need immigrants, and always will.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:47
Subject: Re:immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just stop.
Illegal immigration is wrong. Period.
Legal immigration is great - let's stop illegal immigration so we can have more legal immigration.
And this statement...."If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform."............
If you really believe this, you need to inform your candidates. Because, their statements indicate that they are just fine with illegal immigration.
You do realize that republicans pay lip service to illegal immigration while turning a blind eye to businesses that employ them (or in many cases, like the Prez, employing them themselves), right? Have you informed your elected officials that you’d like less grandstanding at the border and actual action to curb illegal immigration?
This is a feature, not a bug. Keeping the unskilled workforce undocumented allows capital to further suppress labor rights, which in turn, hurts the ability of everyone to organize. Although I have posted extensively on here about how illegal and legal immigration are a net positive to the economy, research does show that it depresses wages for native-born low-skilled workers. What we need is not fewer immigrants, but rather full legal status for all workers.
So how do you square the two bolded parts of your thought? Why should native-born low-skilled workers suffer lower wages? Research also shows that the effect of low-skilled immigration doesn't just affect the bottom quintile but all 4 lower quintiles except the top one. The effect of this is very pronounced. It's naive for you to suggest that only low-skilled workers are impacted.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:42
Subject: Re:immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just stop.
Illegal immigration is wrong. Period.
Legal immigration is great - let's stop illegal immigration so we can have more legal immigration.
And this statement...."If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform."............
If you really believe this, you need to inform your candidates. Because, their statements indicate that they are just fine with illegal immigration.
You do realize that republicans pay lip service to illegal immigration while turning a blind eye to businesses that employ them (or in many cases, like the Prez, employing them themselves), right? Have you informed your elected officials that you’d like less grandstanding at the border and actual action to curb illegal immigration?
This is a feature, not a bug. Keeping the unskilled workforce undocumented allows capital to further suppress labor rights, which in turn, hurts the ability of everyone to organize. Although I have posted extensively on here about how illegal and legal immigration are a net positive to the economy, research does show that it depresses wages for native-born low-skilled workers. What we need is not fewer immigrants, but rather full legal status for all workers.
See, I wish the Dem candidates would say something like this, and keep repeating. The weird litmus test yes/no questions are not really getting to the heart of the problem and only serve to polarize voters one way or another.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:36
Subject: Re:immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just stop.
Illegal immigration is wrong. Period.
Legal immigration is great - let's stop illegal immigration so we can have more legal immigration.
And this statement...."If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform."............
If you really believe this, you need to inform your candidates. Because, their statements indicate that they are just fine with illegal immigration.
You do realize that republicans pay lip service to illegal immigration while turning a blind eye to businesses that employ them (or in many cases, like the Prez, employing them themselves), right? Have you informed your elected officials that you’d like less grandstanding at the border and actual action to curb illegal immigration?
This is a feature, not a bug. Keeping the unskilled workforce undocumented allows capital to further suppress labor rights, which in turn, hurts the ability of everyone to organize. Although I have posted extensively on here about how illegal and legal immigration are a net positive to the economy, research does show that it depresses wages for native-born low-skilled workers. What we need is not fewer immigrants, but rather full legal status for all workers.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:32
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that we’ll ever end up exactly like Japan (too many cultural differences) but something will probably have to give. I don’t think immigration is the sole answer, getting Americans to have kids would also help. But in order to make an appreciable difference there, we’d need to let go of treating child rearing as an extracurricular, individual responsibility activity and enact family-friendly policies to acknowledge that raising the next generation benefits the society as a whole.
But there would also need to be changes to make Americans willing to take jobs currently filled almost exclusively by immigrants. Buttigieg touched on this during the debate- something like, there needs to be a path to earning a decent living even if you don’t go to college. We as a society would need to be willing to pay more for many services, and the govt would have to be willing to crack down on employers that cheat and hire illegals to save $.
Sometimes all of these challenges feel so hopeless.
I don't think the challenges are hopeless. We just need a rational immigration policy. A plan of somehow convincing white women to have more babies for "the nation" by providing more financial benefits is not likely to substitute for the need for more unskilled labor. We need to focus on legalizing labor.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:31
Subject: Re:immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Just stop.
Illegal immigration is wrong. Period.
Legal immigration is great - let's stop illegal immigration so we can have more legal immigration.
And this statement...."If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform."............
If you really believe this, you need to inform your candidates. Because, their statements indicate that they are just fine with illegal immigration.
You do realize that republicans pay lip service to illegal immigration while turning a blind eye to businesses that employ them (or in many cases, like the Prez, employing them themselves), right? Have you informed your elected officials that you’d like less grandstanding at the border and actual action to curb illegal immigration?
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:30
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:This is so sick- why do you conflate illegal and legal immigration. Please just stop.
Let me break it down for you, since you're cognitively impaired.
Just like Japan, the US native-born population is aging, and birth rates are slowing. Just like Japan, to support the economy, that means we need a certain rate of low-skilled immigration. Currently,d due to our lack of a rational immigration policy, those low-skilled workers are being supplied through illegal immigration. Therefore, to keep our economy growing, we need to create a route to more LEGAL immigration. But the illegal immigrants (and their US-born children) are what's keeping us from a Japan-style demographic collapse. So the conflation is that we need to transform illegal --> legal. What ideas do you have to do that?
Given that our economy needs and benefits from these low-skilled workers, but our legal system does not currently provide a route for them to work legally, it's really the legal system that should be blamed as "sick."
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:28
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
I don’t know that we’ll ever end up exactly like Japan (too many cultural differences) but something will probably have to give. I don’t think immigration is the sole answer, getting Americans to have kids would also help. But in order to make an appreciable difference there, we’d need to let go of treating child rearing as an extracurricular, individual responsibility activity and enact family-friendly policies to acknowledge that raising the next generation benefits the society as a whole.
But there would also need to be changes to make Americans willing to take jobs currently filled almost exclusively by immigrants. Buttigieg touched on this during the debate- something like, there needs to be a path to earning a decent living even if you don’t go to college. We as a society would need to be willing to pay more for many services, and the govt would have to be willing to crack down on employers that cheat and hire illegals to save $.
Sometimes all of these challenges feel so hopeless.
But there would also need to be changes to make Americans willing to take jobs currently filled almost exclusively by immigrants. Buttigieg touched on this during the debate- something like, there needs to be a path to earning a decent living even if you don’t go to college. We as a society would need to be willing to pay more for many services, and the govt would have to be willing to crack down on employers that cheat and hire illegals to save $.
Sometimes all of these challenges feel so hopeless.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:25
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:This is so sick- why do you conflate illegal and legal immigration. Please just stop.
No. You need to accept that your imputation of immorality to illegal immigrants is not the only possible position. And, please focus on the actual question in the post. Are you able to understand the situation Japan is in due to is immigration policies? Do you understand that people are here illegally because the US economy NEEDS them, and therefore our policies don't actually keep them out?
Again, if what you're saying is that we need to create routes of legal immigration to regularize our labor force - I totally agree. And, this is the Democratic party position.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:16
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
This is so sick- why do you conflate illegal and legal immigration. Please just stop.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:15
Subject: Re:immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Anonymous wrote:Just stop.
Illegal immigration is wrong. Period.
Legal immigration is great - let's stop illegal immigration so we can have more legal immigration.
And this statement...."If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform."............
If you really believe this, you need to inform your candidates. Because, their statements indicate that they are just fine with illegal immigration.
Ok, thanks for confirming that you have a jingosim-level of understanding of the issues. "Illegal immigration is wrong. Period."
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:14
Subject: Re:immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
Just stop.
Illegal immigration is wrong. Period.
Legal immigration is great - let's stop illegal immigration so we can have more legal immigration.
And this statement...."If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform."............
If you really believe this, you need to inform your candidates. Because, their statements indicate that they are just fine with illegal immigration.
Illegal immigration is wrong. Period.
Legal immigration is great - let's stop illegal immigration so we can have more legal immigration.
And this statement...."If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform."............
If you really believe this, you need to inform your candidates. Because, their statements indicate that they are just fine with illegal immigration.
Anonymous
07/03/2019 08:10
Subject: immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?
For all those who rail against "illegals" -- do you really want us to end up like Japan, with a super-aging population, and not enough workers to support the economy? And now that Japan is trying to get immigrants, the immigrants don't want to stay because of xenophobia.
Where exactly do you picture the US ending up if we don't maintain our level of immigration? What's your plan here? Do you want to be cared for by robots in your old age?
If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform.
On Japan:
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/21/679103541/japans-population-is-in-rapid-decline
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/japan/2018-08-03/japan-becoming-country-immigration
Where exactly do you picture the US ending up if we don't maintain our level of immigration? What's your plan here? Do you want to be cared for by robots in your old age?
If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform.
On Japan:
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/21/679103541/japans-population-is-in-rapid-decline
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/japan/2018-08-03/japan-becoming-country-immigration