Very interesting post OP! (As an aside, you worked in a mine? Wow.) I identify a lot with what you wrote. I never identified with being "female,' actively hate a lot of female presentation stuff (dressing up etc), and never encountered a lot of gender issues as a kid. However, I did start feeling more "female" when I entered the workplace and especially when I had a baby, and started to see how my gender worked against me.

My take is that a lot of kids who identify themselves as "non-binary" these days are just like you and me -- we don't fit with societal roles for our genders. We don't want to be a different gender, but rather don't identify with the expectations for masculinity/femininity. I have no doubt that if I were a teen today, I'd identify with one of the crazy new labels/non-labels and gradations that kids today on the internet have come up with. All it would mean is "don't you dare make me wear a dress!"

Under the current paradigm half of my 1990s women’s college would have been considered non-binary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the entire concept as harmful, because it reinforces the idea that there’s a right way and a wrong way to be male or female. I have two X chromosomes, so therefore whatever I feel and however I view myself is a legitimate way to be female. I have a lot of traits that are often spoken about as being male ones, but that just means that that’s me. I’m still female.

I agree you have a right to feel female anyway that suits you. I just wouldn’t limit that to having two X chromosomes. I’m a straight cisfenale, but I support trans women. There are also people AFAB who don’t have XX chromosomes.

I feel like me. I am biologically female. I can represent myself, dress myself, and be attracted to anyone I want in any way I want. As someone upthread said, I will respect a someone’a right of free will and will address people in the way in which they ask to be addressed and care not a whit about where they go to the bathroom or what job they have. However, we are living in a world where people are increasingly denying science that they don’t like or find inconvenient, and that’s having terrible effects (climate change, anti-vaxx, etc) I don’t like to encourage anti-science, even this one, which is on the more harmless side of the spectrum.

For that very small percentage of people who have non-standard chromosome patterns (which is not the majority of the non-binary or transgendered population), that’s a different story. They have no choice but to spend the time making conscious and thoughtful decisions about how to represent themselves.

Be yourself and feel like yourself. Don’t waste energy thinking about the label.

Anonymous wrote:I recognized myself quite a bit in the way you describe yourself but I don’t consider myself non binary. I consider myself as an heterosexual woman ‘with no frills’.

Me too! Definitely not into jewelry, fashion, or flirting (wish I was, but it just isn't me).

Anonymous wrote:I find the entire concept as harmful, because it reinforces the idea that there’s a right way and a wrong way to be male or female. I have two X chromosomes, so therefore whatever I feel and however I view myself is a legitimate way to be female. I have a lot of traits that are often spoken about as being male ones, but that just means that that’s me. I’m still female.

Well said. I also think the whole idea of having to outwardly “identify” with some gender, or the absence of some gender, is troubling. I am all for everyone being who they are, but more labeling seems counterproductive to that goal. I don’t think this sort of thing existed when I was a kid...or did it? -mid 30s

Anonymous wrote:I find the entire concept as harmful, because it reinforces the idea that there’s a right way and a wrong way to be male or female. I have two X chromosomes, so therefore whatever I feel and however I view myself is a legitimate way to be female. I have a lot of traits that are often spoken about as being male ones, but that just means that that’s me. I’m still female.

I agree you have a right to feel female anyway that suits you. I just wouldn’t limit that to having two X chromosomes. I’m a straight cisfenale, but I support trans women. There are also people AFAB who don’t have XX chromosomes.

Nonbinary probably feels different to different people the same way that feeling female doesn’t feel the same to all women or male the same to all men.

I find the entire concept as harmful, because it reinforces the idea that there’s a right way and a wrong way to be male or female. I have two X chromosomes, so therefore whatever I feel and however I view myself is a legitimate way to be female. I have a lot of traits that are often spoken about as being male ones, but that just means that that’s me. I’m still female.

I’m not nonbinary so I don’t know this is true but I assume it’s the getting the same cringy feeling when someone assumes they’re female that I get when someone assumes I’m straight. Does it matter that this total stranger think I exclusively want to have sex with men? No, has zero effect on my life. And yet still. It feels wrong because it isn’t who I am.

Non-binary is a figment of the imagination. There is no biological basis for it. Nor sexual basis.

Some people simply consider themselves non-binary for whatever reason and have convinced themselves that it's rooted into their psyche or biology. I will respect their decision to do so as part of their free-will, but I do not think much of it beyond an element of fantasy they are indulging in.

Anonymous wrote:See Sunday's new York Times magazine. There's a big feature article sharing several peoples non binary experiences.

Not OP, but I read the Sunday Times article, and it did not answer any of my questions. I still don't understand the need for someone who does not fit the typical gender stereotypes that are associated with their sex to call themselves non binary.

See Sunday's new York Times magazine. There's a big feature article sharing several peoples non binary experiences.

I recognized myself quite a bit in the way you describe yourself but I don’t consider myself non binary. I consider myself as an heterosexual woman ‘with no frills’.

^^ by the same token, considering myself, I'm not exactly sure what identifying as female really is. So it's part of the same question. For example, there was a time when I thought the experience of bearing a child was not in the cards for me, and I had a hard time with that, but then I did have a kid. But I would assume someone could be non-binary and, given having the anatomy to allow that, still want to bear a child--so I'm not convinced that would be a defining characteristic of "feeling female" or identifying as female. So I'm not sure what identifying as female really means either!

This is a real question. I have never had same sex attraction, never felt like I should be a man, but also not sure what it means to feel non-binary vs. feeling female.

The jobs I've had most of my adult life are not particularly gendered--for several years I've worked in tech support in a place where it's about 50% male/female, my education was a combination of liberal arts and math, there were not very many women in my department as a math grad student but I never thought of math as a "male" discipline. When I was younger, my jobs included waitressing, working as a caregiver in group homes and nursing homes, driving a grain truck and other farming aspects, working in a mine. When I was young I probably dressed in a more feminine manner than I have for many years (gave up makeup years ago, very rarely use it at all). Never really mastered flirting or what might be regarded as feminine mannerisms in general--girls/women who did always seemed to have some ability or training I missed.

So, reading/listening about people who identify as non-binary, I have to wonder--what exactly does that mean? I don't really feel my experience as "female" in any way that seems very clear to me.

There was an off-topic thread (not in this forum) re: someone who identifies as non-binary and plans to have breasts removed surgically because of societal response to breasts--not, in the OPs description on that threat, as a body part that felt alien. But I have to think being non-binary is not just about how society responds to oneself.

I was listening to a public radio program involving interviews with people who are non-binary (didn't hear the whole thing, I was driving) and they were talking about how binary genders just didn't fit their lives according to their own experience--so what, exactly, is that experience? How/why is it important to identify specifically as non-binary?