Anonymous wrote:https://ggwash.org/view/71994/beltway-270-toll-lane-widening-vote-been-rescheduled-larry-hogan-maryland

https://ggwash.org/view/71262/maryland-is-moving-ahead-with-its-plan-to-widen-highways-and-add-more-tolls

Maryland has proposed a Traffic Relief Plan to reduce congestion and travel times on some major state highways and improve residents' quality of life. The hitch? The only options on the table would make all of those things worse.

Part of Governor Larry Hogan's plan includes the I-495 & I-270 P3 Program, a public-private partnership ostensibly created to address congestion and slow travel times on those highways. Initially, the Maryland Department of Transportation (DOT) State Highway Administration (SHA) put forward a fairly wide range of potential changes, including transit options like heavy rail (similar to Metro Rail), light rail (like the Purple Line), and various dedicated bus network options.

Recently, these alternatives were narrowed down. A no-build option is still there, but the remainder of possible changes boil down to simply widening these highways by adding new lanes with a variety of toll, high-occupancy vehicle (HOV), or reversible travel lane options.

Study after study after study has shown that when jurisdictions build new roads or widen existing ones, this simply causes more drivers to use them and congestion quickly returns back to previous levels—and sometimes even worsens, since there are more people on the road. Los Angeles is a prime example of this.

I feel like the whole Republican Party is living in the 1980s.

In the past few decades we’ve learned:
- Privatizing roadways ends up with citizens being screwed. See: Chicago red light cameras.
- You can’t build your way out of traffic. Building more roads increases car traffic. Atlanta and LA have enormous amounts of highways and also some of the worst commutes.

Where do they get these politicians? Can we send them back to school or make them read some legitimate news sources?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The induced demand may take 20-30 years. If it was such a big thing, where adding lanes make traffic worse, then why don't we reduce lanes? Let's make the beltway only one lane each way!

Look at the ICC. It opened about 10 years ago, and it's not a parking lot like 270 at rush hour. It has a steady flow of traffic, has a toll charge, and is useful. Who knows, maybe in 15 more years, it'll get backed up too, but that means it will have served a useful purpose for 25 years.

All the people complaining about the proposed expansion seem to have no alternative solutions. The county population has exploded in upcounty like Germantown and Clarksburg. Those people need to get around, and people need to get to there. How else do we solve it? Making MARC trains run all day (the only proposal I've heard) is a good idea, but we need more than that.

Induced demand doesn't mean what you think it means. Tolled lanes will always have fewer cars than non-tolled lanes since not everyone can afford to use them. Induced demand means that more lanes makes the drive easier and since the drive is easier and faster, more people drive instead of taking the bus or train since they can get to work faster. It also gets more people to move further out where land is cheaper since the drive isn't as bad. As this all happens, the road clogs back up. We need more density around Metro stations but Montgomery County has this moratorium system where they won't build new housing because the schools are full (real solution is building new schools!).

How about we do both? The county is growing population-wise, and people need somewhere to live. The "live near a Metro" only works in some parts of the county. Downcounty is just about all built up, which is why you see so many tear-downs in places like Bethesda -- there's no vacant land.

So any way you slice it, people will need to live in Clarksburg, Germantown, etc. We already have bus and train service there, but not everyone will live walking distance from that. People will need to drive. The county is not dense enough upcounty to do it any other way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The induced demand may take 20-30 years. If it was such a big thing, where adding lanes make traffic worse, then why don't we reduce lanes? Let's make the beltway only one lane each way!

Look at the ICC. It opened about 10 years ago, and it's not a parking lot like 270 at rush hour. It has a steady flow of traffic, has a toll charge, and is useful. Who knows, maybe in 15 more years, it'll get backed up too, but that means it will have served a useful purpose for 25 years.

All the people complaining about the proposed expansion seem to have no alternative solutions. The county population has exploded in upcounty like Germantown and Clarksburg. Those people need to get around, and people need to get to there. How else do we solve it? Making MARC trains run all day (the only proposal I've heard) is a good idea, but we need more than that.

Induced demand doesn't mean what you think it means. Tolled lanes will always have fewer cars than non-tolled lanes since not everyone can afford to use them. Induced demand means that more lanes makes the drive easier and since the drive is easier and faster, more people drive instead of taking the bus or train since they can get to work faster. It also gets more people to move further out where land is cheaper since the drive isn't as bad. As this all happens, the road clogs back up. We need more density around Metro stations but Montgomery County has this moratorium system where they won't build new housing because the schools are full (real solution is building new schools!).

Anonymous wrote:The induced demand may take 20-30 years. If it was such a big thing, where adding lanes make traffic worse, then why don't we reduce lanes? Let's make the beltway only one lane each way!

Look at the ICC. It opened about 10 years ago, and it's not a parking lot like 270 at rush hour. It has a steady flow of traffic, has a toll charge, and is useful. Who knows, maybe in 15 more years, it'll get backed up too, but that means it will have served a useful purpose for 25 years.

All the people complaining about the proposed expansion seem to have no alternative solutions. The county population has exploded in upcounty like Germantown and Clarksburg. Those people need to get around, and people need to get to there. How else do we solve it? Making MARC trains run all day (the only proposal I've heard) is a good idea, but we need more than that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Induced demand? You were impressed by someone who said this to you, no? These counter arguments, along with nimbyism, are as stale as the policies you purport to oppose.

I’m sorry your education was so poor you are unable to process a fairly solid literature on induced demand.

The principles are in any Econ 101 class.

Clearly, you gained a Wikipedia level knowledge of the term, or skimmed the first google result you got. Some economists deem it a myth. A bunch of wealthy white nimbys can’t always get what they want.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Induced demand? You were impressed by someone who said this to you, no? These counter arguments, along with nimbyism, are as stale as the policies you purport to oppose.

I’m sorry your education was so poor you are unable to process a fairly solid literature on induced demand.

The principles are in any Econ 101 class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Induced demand? You were impressed by someone who said this to you, no? These counter arguments, along with nimbyism, are as stale as the policies you purport to oppose.

I’m sorry your education was so poor you are unable to process a fairly solid literature on induced demand.

The principles are in any Econ 101 class.

Econ 101 is nothing special and contains plenty of misinformation. Please continue on and get a graduate degree, Hon.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/526515/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Induced demand? You were impressed by someone who said this to you, no? These counter arguments, along with nimbyism, are as stale as the policies you purport to oppose.

I’m sorry your education was so poor you are unable to process a fairly solid literature on induced demand.

The principles are in any Econ 101 class.

Anonymous wrote:Induced demand? You were impressed by someone who said this to you, no? These counter arguments, along with nimbyism, are as stale as the policies you purport to oppose.

Maryland has proposed a Traffic Relief Plan to reduce congestion and travel times on some major state highways and improve residents' quality of life. The hitch? The only options on the table would make all of those things worse.

Part of Governor Larry Hogan's plan includes the I-495 & I-270 P3 Program, a public-private partnership ostensibly created to address congestion and slow travel times on those highways. Initially, the Maryland Department of Transportation (DOT) State Highway Administration (SHA) put forward a fairly wide range of potential changes, including transit options like heavy rail (similar to Metro Rail), light rail (like the Purple Line), and various dedicated bus network options.

Recently, these alternatives were narrowed down. A no-build option is still there, but the remainder of possible changes boil down to simply widening these highways by adding new lanes with a variety of toll, high-occupancy vehicle (HOV), or reversible travel lane options.

Study after study after study has shown that when jurisdictions build new roads or widen existing ones, this simply causes more drivers to use them and congestion quickly returns back to previous levels—and sometimes even worsens, since there are more people on the road. Los Angeles is a prime example of this.