Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 21:25     Subject: Re:Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)
Anonymous wrote:I rarely use this forum because the anonymous comments are ruthless! I'm the original poster, and just to clarify, I believe there are 9 4th grade classes in the school. And my kid is in the CES and isn't calling anyone dumb (though there was a question about why there are no black girls in the class). But labeling kids at an early age is ... not without its issues. Our school is very diverse and the CES is not. And kids do make comments about who is smart and who isn't, and the fact is there are a LOT of kids at the school who aren't in the CES but could be and would do fine. Anyway, my question was more about how schools with a local CES maintain a sense of community for all kids, and their parents. And also how they provide differentiated instruction for kids at different levels in their classrooms. I'm sure my school isn't the only one with parents who feel like their kids are being left behind, and there are people here considering private school. So, while the CES is good for my kid I guess, I'm not sure it's so good for the community or the school as a whole. So, if you are at one of those schools that might be dealing with similar issues and you have any thoughts, please share. Thanks!


It’s a real problem at large local CES schools that aren’t all-around high performing. When you take the upper 20-25% the top of the bottom 75-80% are left with struggling teachers overwhelmed with kids trying to get proficient or with behavior problems. The general complaint is that kids who were doing fine/good and growing are now at the top of a diminished cohort and stagnate both achievement and morale wise. The current model is
Not good.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 21:21     Subject: Re:Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)
Anonymous wrote:We moved to MCPS too late for my DC to participate in testing, so no chance at CES. They’ve always been a 99th %ile kid on standardized tests, but might not have gotten into CES, based on what I’ve read here. They are in above grade level groups for reading and math in the regular classroom. The weird thing to me is how DC talks about the CES classes/kids, as if they’re this entire other species, when in fact they’re probably not *too* different from DC academically. Not sure where this is coming from - the teachers, the other kids, the structure of the school? Clearly, the CES kids are not integrated with the other kids in the way the school likes to say they are. I don’t know if that’s good, bad, or neutral, but my DC has mentioned several times that they would turn down a magnet placement if offered for MS because they don’t want to be with “those kids.”


Are you at a school with a local center, or a Center?

Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 21:14     Subject: Re:Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)
Anonymous wrote:We moved to MCPS too late for my DC to participate in testing, so no chance at CES. They’ve always been a 99th %ile kid on standardized tests, but might not have gotten into CES, based on what I’ve read here. They are in above grade level groups for reading and math in the regular classroom. The weird thing to me is how DC talks about the CES classes/kids, as if they’re this entire other species, when in fact they’re probably not *too* different from DC academically. Not sure where this is coming from - the teachers, the other kids, the structure of the school? Clearly, the CES kids are not integrated with the other kids in the way the school likes to say they are. I don’t know if that’s good, bad, or neutral, but my DC has mentioned several times that they would turn down a magnet placement if offered for MS because they don’t want to be with “those kids.”


RCES parent here. My CES child reports none of the above. DC plays with many non CES students at recess and clubs. In grades k through 3, there were many cliques and plenty of students my students didn't know , simply because they hadn't been in classes together.

I don't believe any of OPs noted problems actually exist in the school.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 20:45     Subject: Re:Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)
We moved to MCPS too late for my DC to participate in testing, so no chance at CES. They’ve always been a 99th %ile kid on standardized tests, but might not have gotten into CES, based on what I’ve read here. They are in above grade level groups for reading and math in the regular classroom. The weird thing to me is how DC talks about the CES classes/kids, as if they’re this entire other species, when in fact they’re probably not *too* different from DC academically. Not sure where this is coming from - the teachers, the other kids, the structure of the school? Clearly, the CES kids are not integrated with the other kids in the way the school likes to say they are. I don’t know if that’s good, bad, or neutral, but my DC has mentioned several times that they would turn down a magnet placement if offered for MS because they don’t want to be with “those kids.”
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 20:27     Subject: Re:Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)
Anonymous wrote:I rarely use this forum because the anonymous comments are ruthless! I'm the original poster, and just to clarify, I believe there are 9 4th grade classes in the school. And my kid is in the CES and isn't calling anyone dumb (though there was a question about why there are no black girls in the class). But labeling kids at an early age is ... not without its issues. Our school is very diverse and the CES is not. And kids do make comments about who is smart and who isn't, and the fact is there are a LOT of kids at the school who aren't in the CES but could be and would do fine. Anyway, my question was more about how schools with a local CES maintain a sense of community for all kids, and their parents. And also how they provide differentiated instruction for kids at different levels in their classrooms. I'm sure my school isn't the only one with parents who feel like their kids are being left behind, and there are people here considering private school. So, while the CES is good for my kid I guess, I'm not sure it's so good for the community or the school as a whole. So, if you are at one of those schools that might be dealing with similar issues and you have any thoughts, please share. Thanks!


You know there used to be more differentiation, right? Reading groups from a much younger age than 4th grade ... kids will survive.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 20:23     Subject: Re:Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)
I rarely use this forum because the anonymous comments are ruthless! I'm the original poster, and just to clarify, I believe there are 9 4th grade classes in the school. And my kid is in the CES and isn't calling anyone dumb (though there was a question about why there are no black girls in the class). But labeling kids at an early age is ... not without its issues. Our school is very diverse and the CES is not. And kids do make comments about who is smart and who isn't, and the fact is there are a LOT of kids at the school who aren't in the CES but could be and would do fine. Anyway, my question was more about how schools with a local CES maintain a sense of community for all kids, and their parents. And also how they provide differentiated instruction for kids at different levels in their classrooms. I'm sure my school isn't the only one with parents who feel like their kids are being left behind, and there are people here considering private school. So, while the CES is good for my kid I guess, I'm not sure it's so good for the community or the school as a whole. So, if you are at one of those schools that might be dealing with similar issues and you have any thoughts, please share. Thanks!
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 19:49     Subject: Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)
Anonymous wrote:Piney Branch May have 10 classes


For 4th is has 9. But has had 10 in the past, and I think TPES has had as many as 12 with the lower ratios for younger kids.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 19:33     Subject: Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)
Piney Branch May have 10 classes
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 19:21     Subject: Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)
Anonymous wrote:Your school has 10 4th grade classrooms?


In some parts of the county there are 8-12 cohorts per grade. This happens when the elementary schools split K/1/2 and 3/4/5. So instead of having 4 Xth Grade classes there are 8, because the student population is only half of a typical elementary school.

Everyone always FREAKS out when they hear about the huge cohorts...but really the schools are all similar in size.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 18:28     Subject: Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)
Anonymous wrote:Your school has 10 4th grade classrooms?


There aren't 10 4th grade class rooms at either of those schools.
OPs math is wrong and dc is probably appropriately placed.

You live in a competitive community. If you would like your child to excel, they need to work harder. There are no participation trophies.

The CES kids are studious and have a wide range of interests outside of social one upsmanship. I have a difficult time imagining a roving band of CES nerds bullying the other students.

Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 18:14     Subject: Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)
There are accelerated and non accelerated classes all throughout school, including AP courses. If having the CES kids call your kid dumb gets you, just wait
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 18:09     Subject: Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)
Your school has 10 4th grade classrooms?
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 18:07     Subject: Re:Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)
At Rachel Carson, last year 30% of the fourth graders were in the CES (2 out of 7 classes). This year, there are more fourth graders in the CES even though there are fewer fourth graders overall than last year (2 out of 6 classes), over 35%. For both fourth and fifth grade, the CES classes are bigger than the other classes. I’m not aware of anything special the administration has done. A fifth grade teacher did talk to the kids about not drawing distinctions between students who are or aren’t in the CES and calling people dumb.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 18:05     Subject: Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)
I think we are at the same school. My child is in the CES there and though we like our teacher and the curriculum seems fine, the CES experience hasn't been without issue. Not even close. I have a lot of empathy for kids/parents who are bright but not in CES - it seems like a nightmare.



Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 17:47     Subject: Question Re: Local CES Programs (Rachel Carson, Matsunaga, etc.)
Does your child go to a school with a local CES? What percentage of the schools' 4th and 5th graders are in the CES? My child's school recently got a local CES that has expanded to two 4th grade classrooms, or roughly 20% of the 4th grade class. This has had an impact on the culture of the school and the attitude of the kids (and parents). Many kids are feeling left behind (some kids on the waitlist tested in the upper 90th percentile) and parents are frustrated. To my knowledge, the administration has never addressed the schools' parents or students about this change, or done anything to try to maintain a feeling of community, or a culture of excellence for everyone, when there are now 2 distinct groups at the school.

My question is, if your kid goes to one of these schools, has the administration found a way to address concerns of parents whose non-CES kids aren't receiving challenging material? Or deal with kids calling their non-CES peers dumb? It feels like there's a bizarre social experiment going on at my kids' school and it needs to be addressed. Any advice or information on how to deal with this would be appreciated!