Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd sit him down and have him read this post. As long as he's aware that you feel this way I think it's totally fine.

After you fail to remind him a few times he will either step up to the plate or not.

I have done this previously to some extent. My husband is better now that our kids are older, but when they were younger it saved my sanity.

Were you really able to let go of the expectation / hope he'd engage more?

Well, not entirely. You aren't going to just stop feeling disappointed when the husband/father up the street is more engaged and includes your kids while your husband naps because he's "so tired," but you set your mind to it and just manage it.

I had a lot of outside help at that point in time, so I'd make plans, inform my husband, and he could show up or not.

I did it yesterday - made plans for the day off, informed him, and then just executed. He actually made the effort and came along.

Like you, divorce is not in the cards for us. My kids love him and like I said, he's better now that they are older. I'm trying to let the past be the past, but I did tell him not long ago how I had felt previously. I think it made a difference, but there wasn't some enormous apology.

Anonymous wrote:So, logistically, your plan sounds fine as others have noted. And it would be a relief to stop taking responsibility for what he does and doesn't do with the family - it's never fun to make yourself responsibility for someone else's life choices. But you say "But I also feel like it'd make him not feel like a life partner at all - more a financial supporter who is nice to fun around periodically when he decides - and that's really sad for a marriage."

So if you're going to do it, I'd try really hard to think about this and see if you can re-frame it in your mind. Can you see being a financial supporter as one way of being a good life partner? Can you see him as an asset to the family when he does participate in family time and see it more as "when he's able" than "when he decides"? (Able can relate to work obligations and to mental health constraints). Can you pick a couple family responsibilities that would mean a lot to you/the kids and can you rely on him to come through for those few things - ie, kids' birthdays, your birthday/anniversary, one or more special holidays, etc.? Maybe you can re-frame that in your mind as being a good life partner, even if it's not personally your ideal life partner. Then it is less than ideal, perhaps disappointing, but not as sad?

This is a great point and something I'll have to think about. I really do struggle with getting my head around how someone can hardly see his kids during the week and then choose to lay in bed all sat morning vs being eager to get time with the kids. We are so lucky, our kids are generally easy and the 2yo at least is fun and engaging and DH enjoys himself when he joins in, it just feels so pathetic to have to try to sweet talk him into joining in his family when I want to scream "get your f'ing ass out of bed and act like a dad!" I don't give him enough credit for the financial contribution he makes and I probably struggle to appreciate the toll that chronic anxiety / depression can take on his ability to engage and instead get annoyed he won't keep working on addressing it more.

Anonymous wrote:I did this for a time with my DH who also has a lot of similar issues with your DH's behaviors (wants to sleep a lot, fun activities feel like work + anxiety). I was fairly vocal about telling him how much I was doing and how little he was doing and that wasn't working out for me. So I stopped expecting anything from him and did everything myself. Slowly, he stepped up. But it was more about what the kids needed from him as they were older. He could more easily meet their needs. He wasn't great with small children.

Around what ages did that start happening? Mine are currently 2 and 1 and unfortunately its a self fulling cycle right now that the less around their dad is the more they prefer me so the easier it is for dad to check-out. They're both boys and I'm hoping when they're older they'll actively want dad more and DH will feel like its more critical for him to engage.

So, logistically, your plan sounds fine as others have noted. And it would be a relief to stop taking responsibility for what he does and doesn't do with the family - it's never fun to make yourself responsibility for someone else's life choices. But you say "But I also feel like it'd make him not feel like a life partner at all - more a financial supporter who is nice to fun around periodically when he decides - and that's really sad for a marriage."

So if you're going to do it, I'd try really hard to think about this and see if you can re-frame it in your mind. Can you see being a financial supporter as one way of being a good life partner? Can you see him as an asset to the family when he does participate in family time and see it more as "when he's able" than "when he decides"? (Able can relate to work obligations and to mental health constraints). Can you pick a couple family responsibilities that would mean a lot to you/the kids and can you rely on him to come through for those few things - ie, kids' birthdays, your birthday/anniversary, one or more special holidays, etc.? Maybe you can re-frame that in your mind as being a good life partner, even if it's not personally your ideal life partner. Then it is less than ideal, perhaps disappointing, but not as sad?

I did this for a time with my DH who also has a lot of similar issues with your DH's behaviors (wants to sleep a lot, fun activities feel like work + anxiety). I was fairly vocal about telling him how much I was doing and how little he was doing and that wasn't working out for me. So I stopped expecting anything from him and did everything myself. Slowly, he stepped up. But it was more about what the kids needed from him as they were older. He could more easily meet their needs. He wasn't great with small children.

I think you should spend more money on outside help.

I do NOT think you should amp down your own career to pick up DH's job on the parenting share, unless maybe your negotiate a very good post nup with him. Rather, pay others to do as much as possible.

Anonymous wrote:The idea that your kids will not suffer because of your DHs issues is insane. Divorce or not he is not a present father and that will have ramifications.

While they'd ideally have a more day to day engaged dad, I don't think they will "suffer". He can be a super fun dad and in an emergency he'd go to the end of the earth for him. In the day to day he's happy to leave the day to day monotony to someone else. I grew up with a dad kind of like him, he would take me on long bike rides on the weekends, and in general be fun and loving for chunks of weekend time and not part of week-day life, I knew he was "there" for me etc....but I got all of my day to day needs and security from my mom. I honestly think at the end of the day my dad is the only one that suffered from it, I know he loves and supports me but I will never be as close to him as I am with my mom and I think he's a bit lonely now that he is retired and has time for family but doesn't have the very close connection. So yes my life could have been a little better if I had a deeper emotional connection with my dad, but childhood was still really good b/c all of my emotional / logistical / security etc needs were still met by my mom and a lot of happy kids have family dynamics like that.

The idea that your kids will not suffer because of your DHs issues is insane. Divorce or not he is not a present father and that will have ramifications.

Anonymous wrote:I'd sit him down and have him read this post. As long as he's aware that you feel this way I think it's totally fine.

After you fail to remind him a few times he will either step up to the plate or not.

I have done this previously to some extent. My husband is better now that our kids are older, but when they were younger it saved my sanity.

Were you really able to let go of the expectation / hope he'd engage more?

I'd sit him down and have him read this post. As long as he's aware that you feel this way I think it's totally fine.

After you fail to remind him a few times he will either step up to the plate or not.

I have done this previously to some extent. My husband is better now that our kids are older, but when they were younger it saved my sanity.

Your plan is fine.

I was also married to someone who had inaccurate perceptions of who he was in a family context. He truly thought that he prioritized his family, but the reality was that all the things that he said were important to him in family life (e.g., family dinner nights, family vacations, knowing our kids' friends and school situations, celebrating birthdays and anniversaries) were things that when push came to shove, he did not prioritize over work. In reality, he was not home for dinner except on the weekend. When we would go on vacation, he would bring his laptop and would work 6 hours a day while leaving me to do all the kid stuff (with the result that my vacation was not relaxing at all). He did not know who DD's friends were and as far as I know, he hasn't met her classroom teachers since kindergarten (she's in 3rd grade now). I spent every birthday of the 5 years we were married alone because he had a work trip at the last minute - usually something that could have been postponed by a couple days or something I could have tagged along on.

Whether it works for you to be married to someone with this tendency totally depends on what you want out of your marriage. If you are willing to settle for someone who will not prioritize your family and will just dip in and dip out as it suits him, there is nothing wrong with your plan. I did it for 6 years (3 with a kid, 3 without), and it was very lonely. For me, the breaking point came when he started making noises about wanting another child but was unwilling to address the things about our family life and marriage that I was unhappy with.

I think your plan sounds fine as well. I would definitely ramp up the use of outside help for anything domestic since it seems like a waste of your time and energy to try to get him to be helpful on that front. If you have a good relationship overall (and it sounds like you do), I would have a non-confrontational conversation in which you tell him essentially what you posted: that the constant nagging/cajoling is wearing on you and on your marriage and that you are going to stop and leave it up to him how and when he wants to participate in those kinds of activities. Good luck!

My dad was the fun 80’s dad who was great when he was around, not working and not hiding in his office. When I was 11 and my brother was 14 my mom went back to work full time, not for the money but that it forced my dad to actually be present every so often. Didn’t make much of a difference really. Honestly my mom should have divorced him when we were little. She got very little from the marriage. He was an extra kid. Don’t get me wrong, I loved my dad but I knew who he was.

Go for it. Your plan sounds totally fine.

DH is very career oriented - big job and big salary. When we got married he was at a very intense breakpoint in his career and said his obsession with his work was just because of that and that he shared the vision for family life and partnership I wanted. It turns out it wasn't any difference once he made it through that stage, that's who he is. I don't think he meant to lie, I think he wishes he was the person he described, he's just not.

I spend a lot of time and energy cajoling him into engaging in family life. Dragging him out of bed on weekend mornings to join in family outtings, asking him to come downstairs for dinner if he's home for it, reminding him to fulfill some domestic responsibilities etc. While he sometimes he snaps when I'm doing it, he overall at least says he is glad I "push him to be a better person" and "kick his ass" to get moving which he is always happy he did after the fact. Sometimes it works out and we have a lot of fun together, other times he's an ass and it just makes things feel lonelier. I think overall he is glad I push him and is happier with his life for it when his inclination is to spend his downtown sleeping or playing on his phone.

I'm so tired of it and am just considering stopping asking anything of him. I'd hire more help to take care of chores at home, make a career change so I could have the time to meet all the kids' needs, and just leave it to DH to engage with our family or not as he chooses. I don't think the kids would suffer, he'd be like a 1980s dad, he can be super fun and engaged when he's not distracted by work and would spend a couple hours focused on them during the weekend, and I'd fully take on ensuring their need for stability, emotional support, and logistical needs are met.

I'm so tired of having to try to manage him into being part of our family so its tempting to just stop trying. He can get out of bed when he wants on weekends and we'll go about our day without him unless he gets up himself and decides to join, join or not join for dinner, not be responsible for any domestic tasks etc. I'll no longer have to think how to kindly / funnily cajole him into participating. But I also feel like it'd make him not feel like a life partner at all - more a financial supporter who is nice to fun around periodically when he decides - and that's really sad for a marriage.

Couple other data points - divorce isn't on the table, while there may be better partners out there (or no partner at all) my life overall isn't nearly unhappy enough to cause all the upheaval and damage of a divorce. Also DH does struggle with anxiety and depression, he is on medication for it and is likely as good as he's able / willing to get (I imagine more CBT would help but he's not interested). I think his running rate is having some depression type behaviors (wants to sleep a lot, fun activities feel like work) but his anxiety / depression don't swing dramatically or cause a lot of drama in and of themselves.

Any thoughts?