Anonymous wrote:No here is what cracks me up. If everyone actually went to their neighborhood school DCPS would still be massively segregated because guess what DC is overwhelmingly segregated

There are no real integrated areas just areas that are in various stages of gentrifying

This is true. My child's DCPS seems less segregated when you looks at the overall data but its a tale of two schools. PK3-1/2 is one school and 1/2-5 is another due to our rapidly gentrifying neighborhood. Every year that line creeps higher.

Are you talking racial segregation or class segregation?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many families would choose the suburbs if it weren't for charters....middle class families are staying in the city more because of charters, even if they can't afford inner Cap Hill or Ward 3.

Right but there are charters where the % low income is way below the overall school age population in DC (YY, LAMB, MV...) -- so how is that helping? In effect these are private schools paid for by taxpayers.

YY 11%, LAMB 24%, MV 28%
my DCPS title 1: 70%

Anonymous wrote:No here is what cracks me up. If everyone actually went to their neighborhood school DCPS would still be massively segregated because guess what DC is overwhelmingly segregated

There are no real integrated areas just areas that are in various stages of gentrifying

Yep.

No here is what cracks me up. If everyone actually went to their neighborhood school DCPS would still be massively segregated because guess what DC is overwhelmingly segregated

There are no real integrated areas just areas that are in various stages of gentrifying

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many families would choose the suburbs if it weren't for charters....middle class families are staying in the city more because of charters, even if they can't afford inner Cap Hill or Ward 3.

Right but there are charters where the % low income is way below the overall school age population in DC (YY, LAMB, MV...) -- so how is that helping? In effect these are private schools paid for by taxpayers.

That is why there is an at-risk lottery preference being discussed. I support it (as a HRCS parent)!

Anonymous wrote:So many families would choose the suburbs if it weren't for charters....middle class families are staying in the city more because of charters, even if they can't afford inner Cap Hill or Ward 3.

Right but there are charters where the % low income is way below the overall school age population in DC (YY, LAMB, MV...) -- so how is that helping? In effect these are private schools paid for by taxpayers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to have this one out mostly to challenge my own biases. It’s my believe based on my experience that DCPS is desegregating, though slowly, as residential patterns change. But I worry about whether the option of choosing charters as a way out of your neighborhood schools is slowing this desegregation. Or not. In my opinion it does lead to at least to some ability-based sorting - “creaming” by choice or whatever you want to call it, and that this retards fuller integration. I’d like to have others’ opinions and see if my biases are off. And whether there are actual choices out there or trends coming in the future.

this misses a key point. Parts of DC are not really desegregating as much as gentrifying. Doesn't really apply to Wards 7/8, which are as segregated as upper NW neighborhoods. Many charters are as fully segregated as neighborhood schools in lower income neighborhoods.

PP here. This is a good point. Charters drive gentrification and help integrate neighborhood schools in ward 4 and 5, for example, but they don't function this same way in wards 7 and 8. That may change with the EOTR movement of charter schools that appeal to high SES demographics that tend to be whiter.

So many families would choose the suburbs if it weren't for charters....middle class families are staying in the city more because of charters, even if they can't afford inner Cap Hill or Ward 3.

Fortunately for you OP the question of DC school segregation, both charter, and public, has been researched often, most recently by the DC Policy Center. https://www.dcpolicycenter.org/publications/landscape-of-diversity-in-dc-public-schools/

What is usually found is that distance to school is a significant driver of school choice for all parents in the system. So, for the most part, people choose what they believe are the best yet closest options.

Because the city itself is pretty segregated, so are our schools. Most charters have the same diversity problems as DCPS -- with a few notable exceptions, and thus closing them probably wouldn't change segregation that much.

Anonymous wrote:No. It would be like it was before, with people not living in the city at all.

The only reason I am ok with our IB elementary, to which I devote copious time and money battling the incompetence of DCPS, is because I can probably go charter when the situation gets bad enough. Otherwise I would have just bought a house in the burbs befote getting pregnant.

People would still live in the city. Population growth would still have increased. Say what you meant to say...”white, wealthy would not be living in the city at all.” Gentrification would not have occurred at similar rates, and people wouldn’t have $1m rowhouses in Petworth.

The theory is the opposite - characters create integration at the elementary level. People buy houses on the hopes of getting into a charter, people who never would have bought houses in the city otherwise, people who would have moved to silver spring or fairfax otherwise. And then when they don't get into a charter or when their charter ends up not being a great fit, they give the local school a go for a year or two in the PK-K grades. They leave by 1st, but the kids born right after them go through the same process but don't bail on local schools till 2nd. Then the kids born right after them stay in local schools till 3rd or 4th. So far that seems to be as far as we go in terms of charters creating integrated neighborhood schools. This is where we stall out though I'd watch the capital hill middle schools for progress on that front.

So I'd say charter schools create more integrated neighborhood elementary schools and drive gentrification.

Anonymous wrote:I want to have this one out mostly to challenge my own biases. It’s my believe based on my experience that DCPS is desegregating, though slowly, as residential patterns change. But I worry about whether the option of choosing charters as a way out of your neighborhood schools is slowing this desegregation. Or not. In my opinion it does lead to at least to some ability-based sorting - “creaming” by choice or whatever you want to call it, and that this retards fuller integration. I’d like to have others’ opinions and see if my biases are off. And whether there are actual choices out there or trends coming in the future.

this misses a key point. Parts of DC are not really desegregating as much as gentrifying. Doesn't really apply to Wards 7/8, which are as segregated as upper NW neighborhoods. Many charters are as fully segregated as neighborhood schools in lower income neighborhoods.

No. It would be like it was before, with people not living in the city at all.

The only reason I am ok with our IB elementary, to which I devote copious time and money battling the incompetence of DCPS, is because I can probably go charter when the situation gets bad enough. Otherwise I would have just bought a house in the burbs befote getting pregnant.

I want to have this one out mostly to challenge my own biases. It’s my believe based on my experience that DCPS is desegregating, though slowly, as residential patterns change. But I worry about whether the option of choosing charters as a way out of your neighborhood schools is slowing this desegregation. Or not. In my opinion it does lead to at least to some ability-based sorting - “creaming” by choice or whatever you want to call it, and that this retards fuller integration. I’d like to have others’ opinions and see if my biases are off. And whether there are actual choices out there or trends coming in the future.