Anonymous
01/17/2019 15:13
Subject: Re:I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Except the goal of the whole reform was to increase URM representation in the magnet problem. The goal was set first. Then MCPS found a way. Not the other way around.
The goal wasn't just to increase URM representation, it was also to reduce Asian participation. MCPS has been pretty transparent about its concern that Asians are over represented in the magnets and over perform.
I think you two are saying the same. Asians are not considered as URM
Yep. MCPS is making this a zero-sum game. More URM without more seats means fewer Asians.
Anonymous
01/17/2019 15:09
Subject: Re:I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?
Anonymous wrote:Except the goal of the whole reform was to increase URM representation in the magnet problem. The goal was set first. Then MCPS found a way. Not the other way around.
The goal wasn't just to increase URM representation, it was also to reduce Asian participation. MCPS has been pretty transparent about its concern that Asians are over represented in the magnets and over perform.
I think you two are saying the same. Asians are not considered as URM
Anonymous
01/17/2019 15:07
Subject: Re:I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?
Except the goal of the whole reform was to increase URM representation in the magnet problem. The goal was set first. Then MCPS found a way. Not the other way around.
The goal wasn't just to increase URM representation, it was also to reduce Asian participation. MCPS has been pretty transparent about its concern that Asians are over represented in the magnets and over perform.
Anonymous
01/17/2019 15:06
Subject: I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?
Anonymous wrote:
3. It may not "make sense" to pool kids in the 96th percentile with 99th percentile kids, but it does serve the needs of kids who otherwise would not have a peer group in their home schools. It is good for those children, and good for the county as a whole.
cohort, curriculum, learning ability and academic achievement ... put all the factors together, it doesn't sound that simple by just putting all the outliers from different base...
the non-outlier kids from strong cohort, got strong peer in their home school vs the the outlier kids from non-strong cohort got "super" strong cohort and "real" enriched curriculum
Anonymous
01/17/2019 15:01
Subject: Re:I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?
Anonymous wrote:A cohort of academic peers has nothing to do with race. It seems perfectly legitimate to accept kids who do not have a cohort of academic peers in their home school. This "proxy for race" argument just sounds like embittered people looking for scapegoats.
Except the goal of the whole reform was to increase URM representation in the magnet problem. The goal was set first. Then MCPS found a way. Not the other way around.
Anonymous
01/17/2019 14:49
Subject: Re:I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?
A cohort of academic peers has nothing to do with race. It seems perfectly legitimate to accept kids who do not have a cohort of academic peers in their home school. This "proxy for race" argument just sounds like embittered people looking for scapegoats.
Anonymous
01/17/2019 14:41
Subject: Re:I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:MCPS uses geographic location as a proxy for race and exercises racial modeling. Basically too many Asians were taking up spots in the magnets. MCPS has been clear that to them this is a problem. In the 90s, they lost court cases when they tried to use race as a criteria to balance racial demographics for transfer requests (per the Metis report). MCPS is now trying to use geographic location and "cohort" to achieve racial modeling.
If you live in a area with a large asian population/high performing then its very unlikely that your kids will get in. Your kid can get a 99% and be rejected while a kid (even a white kid) in a low performing school can get a 96% and get in. Your kids will get to take a class with an enriched label but it isn't the same curriculum as the magnet and not much different than the courses in the home school before. Welcome to MCPS!
Maybe the folks who fought so hard not to allow MCPS to consider race should have considered downstream effects?
DP... are you saying MCPS should allow for race-based admission? Wow.
Anonymous
01/17/2019 14:32
Subject: Re:I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?
Anonymous wrote:MCPS uses geographic location as a proxy for race and exercises racial modeling. Basically too many Asians were taking up spots in the magnets. MCPS has been clear that to them this is a problem. In the 90s, they lost court cases when they tried to use race as a criteria to balance racial demographics for transfer requests (per the Metis report). MCPS is now trying to use geographic location and "cohort" to achieve racial modeling.
If you live in a area with a large asian population/high performing then its very unlikely that your kids will get in. Your kid can get a 99% and be rejected while a kid (even a white kid) in a low performing school can get a 96% and get in. Your kids will get to take a class with an enriched label but it isn't the same curriculum as the magnet and not much different than the courses in the home school before. Welcome to MCPS!
Maybe the folks who fought so hard not to allow MCPS to consider race should have considered downstream effects?
Anonymous
01/17/2019 14:13
Subject: I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?
New screening process. Why do you think they came up with a NEW process to begin with? This is exactly why.
Anonymous
01/17/2019 14:11
Subject: Re:I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?
MCPS uses geographic location as a proxy for race and exercises racial modeling. Basically too many Asians were taking up spots in the magnets. MCPS has been clear that to them this is a problem. In the 90s, they lost court cases when they tried to use race as a criteria to balance racial demographics for transfer requests (per the Metis report). MCPS is now trying to use geographic location and "cohort" to achieve racial modeling.
If you live in a area with a large asian population/high performing then its very unlikely that your kids will get in. Your kid can get a 99% and be rejected while a kid (even a white kid) in a low performing school can get a 96% and get in. Your kids will get to take a class with an enriched label but it isn't the same curriculum as the magnet and not much different than the courses in the home school before. Welcome to MCPS!
If you live in a area with a large asian population/high performing then its very unlikely that your kids will get in. Your kid can get a 99% and be rejected while a kid (even a white kid) in a low performing school can get a 96% and get in. Your kids will get to take a class with an enriched label but it isn't the same curriculum as the magnet and not much different than the courses in the home school before. Welcome to MCPS!
Anonymous
01/17/2019 12:20
Subject: I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?
Anonymous wrote:1. No, the middle school magnets are not meant to be a continuation of the elementary-level programs. There are MANY fewer middle school magnet slots than CES slots, particularly when you consider that two of the MS magnets are STEM focused and kids are chosen for CES based on writing/verbal skills.
1.5 The other reason they are not seen as a continuation is that 4th and 5th grades are times of intense academic and personal growth for many children, and research has demonstrated that testing from those years is more predictive of actual "gifted" status than testing from earlier years.
2. I think the kids in the CES program are probably expected to become stronger writers and perhaps deeper thinkers than their peers in the home school, but those are not skills that are necessarily measured in the middle school magnet admissions test.
3. It may not "make sense" to pool kids in the 96th percentile with 99th percentile kids, but it does serve the needs of kids who otherwise would not have a peer group in their home schools. It is good for those children, and good for the county as a whole.
4. Unknown. This is only the second year of a more universal screening process with home school cohort considered.
well said.
Anonymous
01/17/2019 12:02
Subject: I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?
Many parents turn down CES, but apply for Magnet. Only one kid in our school went to CES of the 5 offered. The bus ride is 45-60 each day as we are the first and last stop. Who wants that for a 9yr old? We have a great home school, the kids get compact math, and they are grouped in reading/writing anyway. Plus they get more time to play/bike/roam with neighbors which is much more important to me than being stuck on a bus 1.5-2hrs a day.
By middle school many parents think kids are ready for the change. And many don’t like their home middle school and think it is the perfect time to transition.
By middle school many parents think kids are ready for the change. And many don’t like their home middle school and think it is the perfect time to transition.
Anonymous
01/17/2019 10:58
Subject: I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?
1. No, the middle school magnets are not meant to be a continuation of the elementary-level programs. There are MANY fewer middle school magnet slots than CES slots, particularly when you consider that two of the MS magnets are STEM focused and kids are chosen for CES based on writing/verbal skills.
1.5 The other reason they are not seen as a continuation is that 4th and 5th grades are times of intense academic and personal growth for many children, and research has demonstrated that testing from those years is more predictive of actual "gifted" status than testing from earlier years.
2. I think the kids in the CES program are probably expected to become stronger writers and perhaps deeper thinkers than their peers in the home school, but those are not skills that are necessarily measured in the middle school magnet admissions test.
3. It may not "make sense" to pool kids in the 96th percentile with 99th percentile kids, but it does serve the needs of kids who otherwise would not have a peer group in their home schools. It is good for those children, and good for the county as a whole.
4. Unknown. This is only the second year of a more universal screening process with home school cohort considered.
1.5 The other reason they are not seen as a continuation is that 4th and 5th grades are times of intense academic and personal growth for many children, and research has demonstrated that testing from those years is more predictive of actual "gifted" status than testing from earlier years.
2. I think the kids in the CES program are probably expected to become stronger writers and perhaps deeper thinkers than their peers in the home school, but those are not skills that are necessarily measured in the middle school magnet admissions test.
3. It may not "make sense" to pool kids in the 96th percentile with 99th percentile kids, but it does serve the needs of kids who otherwise would not have a peer group in their home schools. It is good for those children, and good for the county as a whole.
4. Unknown. This is only the second year of a more universal screening process with home school cohort considered.
Anonymous
01/17/2019 10:56
Subject: I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?
Here is the FAQ everyone should read/memorize and remember during the NEXT BOE election
Has the program itself changed as a result of the new screening process for the Science, math,
computer science program?
We still have many top math students in our new sixth grade class, and we are seeing a greater diversity in ability. This is an important opportunity for highly-able students to be able to step up into a more rigorous curriculum. What has changed is not the rigor of the program or our expectations of students. What has changed is instruction and what the teachers need to do. Our teachers are expected to provide supports and scaffolding to help all magnet students attain the level of mastery of students working at a high level in mathematics.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/Grade%205%20Parent%20FAQ's%20.pdf
Has the program itself changed as a result of the new screening process for the Science, math,
computer science program?
We still have many top math students in our new sixth grade class, and we are seeing a greater diversity in ability. This is an important opportunity for highly-able students to be able to step up into a more rigorous curriculum. What has changed is not the rigor of the program or our expectations of students. What has changed is instruction and what the teachers need to do. Our teachers are expected to provide supports and scaffolding to help all magnet students attain the level of mastery of students working at a high level in mathematics.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/Grade%205%20Parent%20FAQ's%20.pdf
Anonymous wrote:New to MCPS with elementary age kids, read some post here, which makes very confused...
1. Is the magnet program a kind of continued program of enriched study program?- it seems- at leave (much) less than 50% of CES kids get in to the magnet program of middle school.
2. Will the CES improve the student ability of learning, so that they should be more competitive than the kids who hadn't take the ESP, in general.
3. Put the outlier of upper 90% cohort and the outlier of lower 90% cohort together to make a group... I feels like something is not quite make sense?
4. what does the ratio of the reginal seats look like: elementary: middle school: high school
Anonymous
01/17/2019 10:45
Subject: I don't get it- very few CES kids get into magnet school?
New to MCPS with elementary age kids, read some post here, which makes very confused...
1. Is the magnet program a kind of continued program of enriched study program?- it seems- at leave (much) less than 50% of CES kids get in to the magnet program of middle school.
2. Will the CES improve the student ability of learning, so that they should be more competitive than the kids who hadn't take the ESP, in general.
3. Put the outlier of upper 90% cohort and the outlier of lower 90% cohort together to make a group... I feels like something is not quite make sense?
4. what does the ratio of the reginal seats look like: elementary: middle school: high school
1. Is the magnet program a kind of continued program of enriched study program?- it seems- at leave (much) less than 50% of CES kids get in to the magnet program of middle school.
2. Will the CES improve the student ability of learning, so that they should be more competitive than the kids who hadn't take the ESP, in general.
3. Put the outlier of upper 90% cohort and the outlier of lower 90% cohort together to make a group... I feels like something is not quite make sense?
4. what does the ratio of the reginal seats look like: elementary: middle school: high school