Anonymous
01/08/2019 16:24
Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
Anonymous wrote:We should push back as parents.
This is another example of how MCPS is penalizing high-achieving students. And for what? If this comes from Central Office, where they know very well what type of test this is, I bet it's to reduce the achievement gap!!!
Scandalous.
Before you go all nuclear, you might want to clarify in what way MCPS is "penalizing" your student by not giving the test correctly. If they are trying to not use up endless class time with individual test-taking, that has some value. If they are using those MAP scores as a significant factor in magnet selection/cohort analysis, then whether they are doing it correctly may matter. It may not "penalize" any students, it may lead to a needless data imperfection in the selection of 3rd and 5th graders for programs, it may still give the teacher the information they need that the student has mastered the content the teacher has been teaching. Anyway, I think anyone who is going to follow up on this with their school, should know what they mean by "penalizing high-achieving students." Because while it may result in inaccurate data, it's not entirely clear how that inaccurate data would "penalize" anyone.
Anonymous
01/08/2019 16:17
Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
We should push back as parents.
This is another example of how MCPS is penalizing high-achieving students. And for what? If this comes from Central Office, where they know very well what type of test this is, I bet it's to reduce the achievement gap!!!
Scandalous.
This is another example of how MCPS is penalizing high-achieving students. And for what? If this comes from Central Office, where they know very well what type of test this is, I bet it's to reduce the achievement gap!!!
Scandalous.
Anonymous
01/08/2019 16:07
Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
Anonymous wrote:The same message has been sent at my school. Apparently central office has told teachers that students are now supposed to finish the test in one sitting with a recommended time of about an hour. However there is nothing in writing indicating what teachers should do when the students do take longer. Our SDT told us at the beginning of the year but isn’t really enforcing any time limits.
If this is going to be a thing, at the very least teachers need to tell kids ahead of time, so they know they need to approach it like a timed test. It's not fair to have kids assume that it's untimed and then tell them there time is up.
Anonymous
01/08/2019 15:18
Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
Anonymous wrote:The same message has been sent at my school. Apparently central office has told teachers that students are now supposed to finish the test in one sitting with a recommended time of about an hour. However there is nothing in writing indicating what teachers should do when the students do take longer. Our SDT told us at the beginning of the year but isn’t really enforcing any time limits.
This is crazy and it penalizes high scorers who have to answer more questions. Would suggest you send to askmcps with a link to this thread and get an official response.
Anonymous
01/08/2019 15:16
Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
The same message has been sent at my school. Apparently central office has told teachers that students are now supposed to finish the test in one sitting with a recommended time of about an hour. However there is nothing in writing indicating what teachers should do when the students do take longer. Our SDT told us at the beginning of the year but isn’t really enforcing any time limits.
Anonymous
01/08/2019 14:27
Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
Anonymous wrote:
Some kids might answer a total of 40 questions, some 53, some 70, depending on how many they answered correctly before they started getting them wrong. It's not timed because some kids can keep going much longer than others, even if they're all answering the questions at the same speed. You actually _want_ them to keep going as long as they can, because it means they're still getting the questions right.
This is a very important point. Many of the kids who take a long time in the test at our school are the high performers. They are not slow and don't need to improve their ability to answer math quickly. They just get MORE questions and harder questions than everyone else. The staff development person at your school sounds like she needs to be retrained in this.
Anonymous
01/08/2019 14:24
Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
+1
That's correct. MAP is designed to be untimed and they are nationally normed based on the idea that kids have had all the time they need. The scores are totally invalid if your child was not allowed to finish in her own time.
I don't know if you are at the same school but a friend of mine told me his child's MCPS school always cuts off the time at 60 minutes. I believe he has filed a complaint with the district over this and you should raise a fuss too.
That's correct. MAP is designed to be untimed and they are nationally normed based on the idea that kids have had all the time they need. The scores are totally invalid if your child was not allowed to finish in her own time.
I don't know if you are at the same school but a friend of mine told me his child's MCPS school always cuts off the time at 60 minutes. I believe he has filed a complaint with the district over this and you should raise a fuss too.
Anonymous
01/08/2019 14:10
Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:That's really weird.
There's no real "finish" to a MAP test, it just ends when the student starts missing enough questions. The questions get progressively harder, and when they start missing a certain number of them, the test ends. The idea is that kids will keep going until they reach the limit of their current abilities.
Some kids might answer a total of 40 questions, some 53, some 70, depending on how many they answered correctly before they started getting them wrong. It's not timed because some kids can keep going much longer than others, even if they're all answering the questions at the same speed. You actually _want_ them to keep going as long as they can, because it means they're still getting the questions right.
In fact, if you look at the NWEA's own statistics, the mean test times last year for "high-performing" 4th and 5th graders on MAP-M were over 80 minutes: https://www.nwea.org/content/uploads/2018/08/Average-MAP-Growth-Test-Durations.pdf.
Among all kids, the mean was closer to an hour.
So MCPS would be shooting themselves in the foot if they limited kids to an hour. Why on earth would you invalidate the scores of any student who took longer than an hour, when statistically those are likely to be your highest scores?
Even if it wasn't really an MCPS policy, but something the teachers just made up because they didn't want the bother of proctoring another day of testing, it would be a really dumb thing to do. The inevitable low scores would reflect badly on the school and on the teachers.
Unless someone else here knows something I don't, I think I'd follow up and keep pressing for more details. I get that they might want to encourage your son to work more quickly, because it could be an issue on other types of standardized tests, but it makes zero sense to set a hard time limit on MAP.
That's very well explained. You should include that in your complaint, to show the Principal and the teacher that they shouldn't mess with you.
+1 Map-M tests are supposed to be untimed. End of story.
Anonymous
01/08/2019 13:59
Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
Anonymous wrote:That's really weird.
There's no real "finish" to a MAP test, it just ends when the student starts missing enough questions. The questions get progressively harder, and when they start missing a certain number of them, the test ends. The idea is that kids will keep going until they reach the limit of their current abilities.
Some kids might answer a total of 40 questions, some 53, some 70, depending on how many they answered correctly before they started getting them wrong. It's not timed because some kids can keep going much longer than others, even if they're all answering the questions at the same speed. You actually _want_ them to keep going as long as they can, because it means they're still getting the questions right.
In fact, if you look at the NWEA's own statistics, the mean test times last year for "high-performing" 4th and 5th graders on MAP-M were over 80 minutes: https://www.nwea.org/content/uploads/2018/08/Average-MAP-Growth-Test-Durations.pdf.
Among all kids, the mean was closer to an hour.
So MCPS would be shooting themselves in the foot if they limited kids to an hour. Why on earth would you invalidate the scores of any student who took longer than an hour, when statistically those are likely to be your highest scores?
Even if it wasn't really an MCPS policy, but something the teachers just made up because they didn't want the bother of proctoring another day of testing, it would be a really dumb thing to do. The inevitable low scores would reflect badly on the school and on the teachers.
Unless someone else here knows something I don't, I think I'd follow up and keep pressing for more details. I get that they might want to encourage your son to work more quickly, because it could be an issue on other types of standardized tests, but it makes zero sense to set a hard time limit on MAP.
That's very well explained. You should include that in your complaint, to show the Principal and the teacher that they shouldn't mess with you.
Anonymous
01/08/2019 13:54
Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
That's really weird.
There's no real "finish" to a MAP test, it just ends when the student starts missing enough questions. The questions get progressively harder, and when they start missing a certain number of them, the test ends. The idea is that kids will keep going until they reach the limit of their current abilities.
Some kids might answer a total of 40 questions, some 53, some 70, depending on how many they answered correctly before they started getting them wrong. It's not timed because some kids can keep going much longer than others, even if they're all answering the questions at the same speed. You actually _want_ them to keep going as long as they can, because it means they're still getting the questions right.
In fact, if you look at the NWEA's own statistics, the mean test times last year for "high-performing" 4th and 5th graders on MAP-M were over 80 minutes: https://www.nwea.org/content/uploads/2018/08/Average-MAP-Growth-Test-Durations.pdf.
Among all kids, the mean was closer to an hour.
So MCPS would be shooting themselves in the foot if they limited kids to an hour. Why on earth would you invalidate the scores of any student who took longer than an hour, when statistically those are likely to be your highest scores?
Even if it wasn't really an MCPS policy, but something the teachers just made up because they didn't want the bother of proctoring another day of testing, it would be a really dumb thing to do. The inevitable low scores would reflect badly on the school and on the teachers.
Unless someone else here knows something I don't, I think I'd follow up and keep pressing for more details. I get that they might want to encourage your son to work more quickly, because it could be an issue on other types of standardized tests, but it makes zero sense to set a hard time limit on MAP.
There's no real "finish" to a MAP test, it just ends when the student starts missing enough questions. The questions get progressively harder, and when they start missing a certain number of them, the test ends. The idea is that kids will keep going until they reach the limit of their current abilities.
Some kids might answer a total of 40 questions, some 53, some 70, depending on how many they answered correctly before they started getting them wrong. It's not timed because some kids can keep going much longer than others, even if they're all answering the questions at the same speed. You actually _want_ them to keep going as long as they can, because it means they're still getting the questions right.
In fact, if you look at the NWEA's own statistics, the mean test times last year for "high-performing" 4th and 5th graders on MAP-M were over 80 minutes: https://www.nwea.org/content/uploads/2018/08/Average-MAP-Growth-Test-Durations.pdf.
Among all kids, the mean was closer to an hour.
So MCPS would be shooting themselves in the foot if they limited kids to an hour. Why on earth would you invalidate the scores of any student who took longer than an hour, when statistically those are likely to be your highest scores?
Even if it wasn't really an MCPS policy, but something the teachers just made up because they didn't want the bother of proctoring another day of testing, it would be a really dumb thing to do. The inevitable low scores would reflect badly on the school and on the teachers.
Unless someone else here knows something I don't, I think I'd follow up and keep pressing for more details. I get that they might want to encourage your son to work more quickly, because it could be an issue on other types of standardized tests, but it makes zero sense to set a hard time limit on MAP.
Anonymous
01/08/2019 13:52
Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
You have to complain about this teacher to the Principal, OP, and explain that:
1. She should provide evidence of her claim.
2. She should stop creating anxiety and suffering in your child by threatening him. Use those words.
I have a middle schooler with diagnosed slow processing speed who takes SEVERAL DAYS to finish his MAP tests. He has an IEP and is entitled to extra time on all written assignments and tests as well. He is also gifted, has straight As and loves learning.
If the MAP is changed to a timed test, I encourage you to have your child evaluated to see whether his slow processing speed is significant enough that it needs to be accommodated.
Anonymous
01/08/2019 13:08
Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
"One of the areas we focused on is test duration. An efficient measure of student learning shouldn’t have the student away from the classroom for several hours at a time. In general, NWEA expects that students will complete a MAP Growth test in about 45 to 75 minutes, with high-performing students taking longer in some cases. There is, of course, variability depending upon testing season, student grade level, and the subject area of the assessment"
From: https://www.nwea.org/blog/2018/how-long-is-too-long-to-spend-map-growth-assessment/
From: https://www.nwea.org/blog/2018/how-long-is-too-long-to-spend-map-growth-assessment/
Anonymous
01/08/2019 13:08
Subject: Re:Time Limit for Map-M Testing
The scores will go down, down, down if they put a limit on it. My son took forever taking those tests because they are adaptive. The more questions you answer correctly, the longer the test is.
Anonymous
01/08/2019 13:05
Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
If this is an MCPS policy, it is new since Fall, which would be odd because changing in the middle of the academic year doesn't make a lot of sense. It is also contrary to the test maker's materials and the intent of the test.
I would ask the principal.
I would ask the principal.
Anonymous
01/08/2019 12:57
Subject: Time Limit for Map-M Testing
I have always been told that the Map testing is not timed but my son took it yesterday and was not able to finish it in 1 hour and was told by the staff development teacher that he needs to learn how to get quicker at taking tests and that she would allow him extra time this time but not for future testing situations. He was given time to finish it yesterday afternoon and did score a good score.
He came home upset and said that he was trying his best and he didn't think it was fair that he had to rush. He explained that most of the kids did finish in the hour (but not all) but he didn't feel like he was going super slow. There were 53 questions and because he scores high the questions were really hard and complicated which slowed him down. He is in compacted 4/5.
I spoke to the staff development teacher today who agreed that he needs to learn to go quicker and it is a new MCPS guideline that the children finish in a hour or their scores are not valid. I have looked online and have not found any information on that at all. In fact, I saw several places that mentioned that it is an untimed test.
Have other schools gone to a timed Map test? Is it a set policy for Montgomery County? How can the scores be compared nationwide if all schools are not being forced to use tight time limits? What have you al heard?
Thank you.
He came home upset and said that he was trying his best and he didn't think it was fair that he had to rush. He explained that most of the kids did finish in the hour (but not all) but he didn't feel like he was going super slow. There were 53 questions and because he scores high the questions were really hard and complicated which slowed him down. He is in compacted 4/5.
I spoke to the staff development teacher today who agreed that he needs to learn to go quicker and it is a new MCPS guideline that the children finish in a hour or their scores are not valid. I have looked online and have not found any information on that at all. In fact, I saw several places that mentioned that it is an untimed test.
Have other schools gone to a timed Map test? Is it a set policy for Montgomery County? How can the scores be compared nationwide if all schools are not being forced to use tight time limits? What have you al heard?
Thank you.