Anonymous wrote:If it’s not one of the five, it’s a selling league

RantingSoccerDad wrote:Two things about Olsen:

1. Rightly or wrongly, he got a free pass for a long time because United had budget woes while throwing money down the RFK toilet, and he's a club legend. We'll see how long that continues now that he has a half-decent team.

2. Olsen is one coach in MLS. Others ...

- Carl Robinson, Vancouver. Fired this fall.
- Mikael Stahre, San Jose. Fired this fall.
- Sigi Schmid, LA Galaxy. Pushed out this fall.
- Jason Kreis, Orlando. Pushed out this summer.
- Mauro Biello, Montreal. Fired last fall.
- Jay Heaps, New England. Fired last fall.
- Pablo Mastroeni, Colorado. Fired last summer.
- Curt Onalfo, LA Galaxy. Fired last summer.
- Dominic Kinnear, San Jose. Fired last summer.
- Jeff Cassar, Real Salt Lake. Pushed out last spring.

You get the picture.

Players? Check this: https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/80510/mls-moves-six-more-clubs-reveal-roster-decisions.html

In fact, given the contract structure in MLS, it's often easier to dismiss a player here than it is elsewhere in the world.

Aging Europeans? Let's take a look at the top salaries in MLS: https://mlsplayers.org/resources/salary-guide

There, you'll find a few guys who fit that description. Schweinsteiger, David Villa, Rooney ... Zlatan is pretty far down.

#2 is Michael Bradley (USA), love him or hate him. Developed in MLS, played in Europe with some successes and some failures, returned here.

#4 is Sebastian Giovinco, who was 28 when he left Juventus to come here.

#5 is Jozy Altidore (USA). See Bradley. Same story.

The next two are under-30 Mexicans -- Carlos Vela and Giovani dos Santos.

After Rooney is Diego Valeri, a player from Argentina who signed in his late-mid 20s.

Meanwhile, here are the current homegrown players in MLS:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homegrown_Player_Rule_(Major_League_Soccer)#Current_Homegrown_Players_in_MLS

What they don't have enough of -- and here's the point of the thread -- is transfers out. Altidore and Bradley, of course, transferred out at one point.

In the past year, the biggest by far is Alphonso Davies, who's leaving Vancouver to join Bayern Munich for somewhere between $14 million and $22 million, depending on how you calculate it. Other notables sold overseas: Matt Miazga, Jack Harrison, Maurice Edu, Jermaine Dafoe, Tim Howard, etc.

Atlanta is reshaping things. They spent a fortune on Miguel Almiron and Ezequiel Barco. Almiron would generate a tidy profit if he's sold this winter. Barco will surely need another year or two in Atlanta.

If you're curious about MLS salaries in general, Jonathan Tannenwald crunched the numbers. They're not MLB or NHL. But neither are they NWSL. The minimum MLS salary for the guys with no experience is still a little higher than the average starting pay for a college graduate, so the stories of MLS starters leaving soccer for real estate (Scott Garlick, 2007) have pretty well died down.

The union needs to extract a lot of concessions in the next CBA. Outright free agency would be a good thing. And the union also needs to drop its objection to solidarity payments and training compensation.

MLS isn't there yet. Long way to go. But it doesn't help to come up with unsupported accusations.

Anonymous wrote:Georgetown University -
Cost of Attendance $72,816
Tuition and Fees $52,300
Room and Board $16,670
Books and Supplies $1,200
Other Expenses $2,646

72K x 4 = 288K student loan debt, unless parents pay or scholarships. If you want a career as a professional soccer player, you have to figure out if it's worth carrying that debt along with you...

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:So let me see if I follow the argument here ...

1. MLS stinks because it has no incentive to develop players.

2. If MLS manages to get training compensation and solidarity payment, it'll stink worse because players from the USA only sign overseas because they don't come with such financial baggage.

OK then.

The bigger issue here is frankly the NCAA. Just look at Weston McKennie, who didn't sign a pro deal with Dallas because he wanted to keep his options open for college soccer, then went free to Schalke.

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/soccer/soccer/2016/08/30/business-fc-dallas-takes-couple-losses-field

If the NCAA would allow players to regain amateur status (which FIFA allows), maybe MLS (and the USL) would be able to persuade the next McKennie to sign.

In any case -- unless players are moving to Europe at age 12 or so, they're spending some time in U.S. youth clubs. If an MLS academy is the closest youth club, it's usually there.

MLS will continue to stink at youth player development if they continue to be a single-entity closed structure. Having independent clubs that compete against each other creates proper incentives to develop youth. It is a proven model which works well in the rest of the world.

https://rantingsoccerdad.com/all-about-promotion-relegation/

Also more detail here ...

https://rantingsoccerdad.com/2017/11/09/the-myth-of-promotion-relegation-and-youth-development-continued/

I loved your choice of picture at the top, but I am not really persuaded by your rebuttal arguments such as that MLS players are playing for their jobs when their team is in the last place. If MLS had real competitive pressures, Ben Olsen would have been fired long time ago as his teams were constant bottom dwellers year after year until Rooney arrived and changed the locker room culture. In Europe, some coaches get fired after their team finishes second. That's the real pressure to perform!

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:So let me see if I follow the argument here ...

1. MLS stinks because it has no incentive to develop players.

2. If MLS manages to get training compensation and solidarity payment, it'll stink worse because players from the USA only sign overseas because they don't come with such financial baggage.

OK then.

The bigger issue here is frankly the NCAA. Just look at Weston McKennie, who didn't sign a pro deal with Dallas because he wanted to keep his options open for college soccer, then went free to Schalke.

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/soccer/soccer/2016/08/30/business-fc-dallas-takes-couple-losses-field

If the NCAA would allow players to regain amateur status (which FIFA allows), maybe MLS (and the USL) would be able to persuade the next McKennie to sign.

In any case -- unless players are moving to Europe at age 12 or so, they're spending some time in U.S. youth clubs. If an MLS academy is the closest youth club, it's usually there.

MLS will continue to stink at youth player development if they continue to be a single-entity closed structure. Having independent clubs that compete against each other creates proper incentives to develop youth. It is a proven model which works well in the rest of the world.

https://rantingsoccerdad.com/all-about-promotion-relegation/

Also more detail here ...

https://rantingsoccerdad.com/2017/11/09/the-myth-of-promotion-relegation-and-youth-development-continued/

I loved your choice of picture at the top, but I am not really persuaded by your rebuttal arguments such as that MLS players are playing for their jobs when their team is in the last place. If MLS had real competitive pressures, Ben Olsen would have been fired long time ago as his teams were constant bottom dwellers year after year until Rooney arrived and changed the locker room culture. In Europe, some coaches get fired after their team finishes second. That's the real pressure to perform!

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:So let me see if I follow the argument here ...

1. MLS stinks because it has no incentive to develop players.

2. If MLS manages to get training compensation and solidarity payment, it'll stink worse because players from the USA only sign overseas because they don't come with such financial baggage.

OK then.

The bigger issue here is frankly the NCAA. Just look at Weston McKennie, who didn't sign a pro deal with Dallas because he wanted to keep his options open for college soccer, then went free to Schalke.

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/soccer/soccer/2016/08/30/business-fc-dallas-takes-couple-losses-field

If the NCAA would allow players to regain amateur status (which FIFA allows), maybe MLS (and the USL) would be able to persuade the next McKennie to sign.

In any case -- unless players are moving to Europe at age 12 or so, they're spending some time in U.S. youth clubs. If an MLS academy is the closest youth club, it's usually there.

MLS will continue to stink at youth player development if they continue to be a single-entity closed structure. Having independent clubs that compete against each other creates proper incentives to develop youth. It is a proven model which works well in the rest of the world.

https://rantingsoccerdad.com/all-about-promotion-relegation/

Also more detail here ...

https://rantingsoccerdad.com/2017/11/09/the-myth-of-promotion-relegation-and-youth-development-continued/

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:So let me see if I follow the argument here ...

1. MLS stinks because it has no incentive to develop players.

2. If MLS manages to get training compensation and solidarity payment, it'll stink worse because players from the USA only sign overseas because they don't come with such financial baggage.

OK then.

The bigger issue here is frankly the NCAA. Just look at Weston McKennie, who didn't sign a pro deal with Dallas because he wanted to keep his options open for college soccer, then went free to Schalke.

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/soccer/soccer/2016/08/30/business-fc-dallas-takes-couple-losses-field

If the NCAA would allow players to regain amateur status (which FIFA allows), maybe MLS (and the USL) would be able to persuade the next McKennie to sign.

In any case -- unless players are moving to Europe at age 12 or so, they're spending some time in U.S. youth clubs. If an MLS academy is the closest youth club, it's usually there.

MLS will continue to stink at youth player development if they continue to be a single-entity closed structure. Having independent clubs that compete against each other creates proper incentives to develop youth. It is a proven model which works well in the rest of the world.

RantingSoccerDad wrote:So let me see if I follow the argument here ...

1. MLS stinks because it has no incentive to develop players.

2. If MLS manages to get training compensation and solidarity payment, it'll stink worse because players from the USA only sign overseas because they don't come with such financial baggage.

OK then.

The bigger issue here is frankly the NCAA. Just look at Weston McKennie, who didn't sign a pro deal with Dallas because he wanted to keep his options open for college soccer, then went free to Schalke.

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/soccer/soccer/2016/08/30/business-fc-dallas-takes-couple-losses-field

If the NCAA would allow players to regain amateur status (which FIFA allows), maybe MLS (and the USL) would be able to persuade the next McKennie to sign.

In any case -- unless players are moving to Europe at age 12 or so, they're spending some time in U.S. youth clubs. If an MLS academy is the closest youth club, it's usually there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A great article on the possibility of MLS becoming a selling league, increase youth development, free training at MLS Academies for the best players, selling rights to players for transfer fees.

"The news out of the state of the league regarding becoming a “selling league,” favoring training compensation, combined with the earlier reports of eliminating geographic homegrown restrictions is welcome and overdue but it could have a transformative impact. It was one of the most important developments in any recent state of the league address. It is the latest example of the global market pulling MLS in a direction that will really help it grow."

http://www.americansoccernow.com/articles/state-of-the-league-address-signifies-significant-and-positive-changes-for-mls

Garber is always looking for new ways to screw young US players. There are good reasons as to why our best young players refuse to sign with MLS and go to Europe or Mexico. Lack of training compensation and solidarity fees are the only thing that gives our young players an edge in European market. MLS sucks at developing young talent and I don't see it changing in the future unless they break up the single entity and make an open system.

+1

There's no incentive to develop young talent in MLS. Teams in the best selling leagues, like Brazil, actively scout for good prospects and compete to develop them, because they get to keep the transfer fees. Garber wants you to believe that a couple of lucky discoveries mean MLS has arrived, but they're exceptions. The league still spends more money on washed- up Euro and USMNT players.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A great article on the possibility of MLS becoming a selling league, increase youth development, free training at MLS Academies for the best players, selling rights to players for transfer fees.

"The news out of the state of the league regarding becoming a “selling league,” favoring training compensation, combined with the earlier reports of eliminating geographic homegrown restrictions is welcome and overdue but it could have a transformative impact. It was one of the most important developments in any recent state of the league address. It is the latest example of the global market pulling MLS in a direction that will really help it grow."

http://www.americansoccernow.com/articles/state-of-the-league-address-signifies-significant-and-positive-changes-for-mls

Garber is always looking for new ways to screw young US players. There are good reasons as to why our best young players refuse to sign with MLS and go to Europe or Mexico. Lack of training compensation and solidarity fees are the only thing that gives our young players an edge in European market. MLS sucks at developing young talent and I don't see it changing in the future unless they break up the single entity and make an open system.

Anonymous wrote:A great article on the possibility of MLS becoming a selling league, increase youth development, free training at MLS Academies for the best players, selling rights to players for transfer fees.

"The news out of the state of the league regarding becoming a “selling league,” favoring training compensation, combined with the earlier reports of eliminating geographic homegrown restrictions is welcome and overdue but it could have a transformative impact. It was one of the most important developments in any recent state of the league address. It is the latest example of the global market pulling MLS in a direction that will really help it grow."

http://www.americansoccernow.com/articles/state-of-the-league-address-signifies-significant-and-positive-changes-for-mls