Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than the theory of knowledge course which is unique, why is IB desirable if kids in general are not well rounded enough to get an IB diploma?

you also have to do 50 hours of community service in each of three genres and a long thesis-type of paper. But, most of the kids in the IB schools are are the lower end of the SES ladder and therefore, it's more of the population not being IB-capable. That said, I didn't like the structure of the IB program (pre-defined requirements: must do one class in each of 6 subject areas, plus the things listed above).... so when we were looking to move, the IB pyramids were deal-breakers for us. It was maddening to our real estate agent, and frustrating for us b/c there were houses that would have been good for us but for the IB. We went with an AP pyramid b/c it has a more a la carte program.

If your kid is definitely a strong student and motivated to complete all the different requirements for IB, it is a good program and will look good for applications. BUT, if you have kids who may or may not be strong in one or more subjects, and may not be ambitious enough to complete the outside requirements, then IB is not ideal. AP gives more flexibility without the stigma of "didn't go the extra mile."

Re: bold above: You're referring to the IB diploma requirement of six classes plus Theory of Knowledge class and the extended essay and service.

Those are for the diploma. But any student in an IB school can take any IB class as an "a la carte" class, like AP students take AP classes a la carte. It's a common misunderstanding about IB, but it's not true that everyone must do the full diploma. While there's a lot of emphasis on trying to do the full IB diploma, any student can take any IB classes, and the IB exams that conclude the classes. And colleges will look at those a la carte IB classes and many give credit for them-- you do not have to have the full IB diploma course load for a college to consider your one or more solo IB classes.

There are often claims on DCUM that "colleges are more familiar with AP and AP gets you out of some college classes" but DC is currently visiting and applying to colleges and every single one has discussed IB and AP in the same way, admissions officers have said they see increasing numbers of both IB diploma students and students with some IB classes, and they are familiar with the level of work involved in IB just as they are for AP. I don't know that colleges have a "stigma of 'didn't go the extra mile'" as PP thinks.

I'm not here to try to convince the OP that IB is right for her kids; I'm just correcting some misconceptions about the idea that the diploma path is the only thing IB is about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than the theory of knowledge course which is unique, why is IB desirable if kids in general are not well rounded enough to get an IB diploma?

you also have to do 50 hours of community service in each of three genres and a long thesis-type of paper. But, most of the kids in the IB schools are are the lower end of the SES ladder and therefore, it's more of the population not being IB-capable. That said, I didn't like the structure of the IB program (pre-defined requirements: must do one class in each of 6 subject areas, plus the things listed above).... so when we were looking to move, the IB pyramids were deal-breakers for us. It was maddening to our real estate agent, and frustrating for us b/c there were houses that would have been good for us but for the IB. We went with an AP pyramid b/c it has a more a la carte program.

If your kid is definitely a strong student and motivated to complete all the different requirements for IB, it is a good program and will look good for applications. BUT, if you have kids who may or may not be strong in one or more subjects, and may not be ambitious enough to complete the outside requirements, then IB is not ideal. AP gives more flexibility without the stigma of "didn't go the extra mile."

I think you may have overthought this.
At an AP school, what percentage of kids take 100% AP classes junior and senior year, a philosophy class, plus 150 hours of community service? Those would be the equivalent of an IB diploma student, and those two subsets of kids will be compared with each other in college admissions as taking an exceedingly rigorous courseload in HS.

At an IB school, you can choose take a handful of IB courses, just like you can with AP courses at an AP school. The major difference is that AP courses are broad survey courses that prepare a student for a multiple choice test and IB courses are in depth courses that prepare a student for a multiple essay based test. Both are valid, and both will be useful preperation for college.

My kids are at an IB high school, and the vast majority are not doing the diploma. The most common reasons are wanting to drop the foreign language after sophomore year, wanting to take academy classes, or just not being able to handle a courseload of 7 IB classes junior and senior year. The amount of rigor is adjustable in both AP and IB.

Anonymous wrote:We're looking at buying a home in Fairfax and want to take high schools into account (our kids are more than a decade from high school and I realize that boundaries move, but we're hoping to only have to buy once). I have a strong preference for AP over IB and was wondering if there was any sense of whether Fairfax may move away from IB long-term. I know this is a bit of a crystal ball question, but I was wondering if there had been any rumblings.

OP, buy your home where you find the house you want to buy. There is no rumbling like you're hoping for, and even if there were -- it would be just that, rumbling and rumor, and could change next year or in five years or never. We're very involved in our high schooler's IB FCPS high school and haven't heard any such talk. There are people on DCUM who have a very strong anti-IB bias, and who know little about the reality of doing IB so they tend to spread a lot of wrong information about how the program actually works, so please take with a grain of salt any proclamations about how awful IB is and how they're hearing it's going to be axed.

If your children approach HS age and the assigned HS is an IB school, do an academic transfer to the appropriate AP school. For much of ES (unless your child is going to move to an AAP center school) and MS (same), you have little to no choice about where you child goes; for HS you can get some choice if you do an AP/IB academic transfer, so that would be of less concern to me, 10 years away from HS age, than the ES and MS for your new home.

Anonymous wrote:FCPS has 25 high or secondary schools, and only 8 have IB. The rest is AP. So if you want AP and were looking at the Robinson area, look in Lake Braddock or Woodson instead. If you were looking in the South Lakes area, look at Oakton instead. If you were looking in the Marshall area, look at the McLean or Madison areas instead. Most of southeastern Fairfax is IB (Annandale, Edison, Justice, Lee, Mount Vernon), but Falls Church, West Potomac, Hayfield and South County are all AP.

Just a point. We live walking distance to Robinson, but due to AAP both kids went to Lake Braddock for middle and then pupil placed to Woodson, fwiw. It's actually nice considering if you moved our house across Braddock it would cost 100K more.

We sent one to Robinson who did the full IB diploma. It was a positive experience for her. The writing isn't a joke and the language requirements are more rigorous than the AP Spanish my other two did (she took the AP Spanish exam and got a 5 but got like a 6 (barely passing) on the IB exam).

Anonymous wrote:Other than the theory of knowledge course which is unique, why is IB desirable if kids in general are not well rounded enough to get an IB diploma?

you also have to do 50 hours of community service in each of three genres and a long thesis-type of paper. But, most of the kids in the IB schools are are the lower end of the SES ladder and therefore, it's more of the population not being IB-capable. That said, I didn't like the structure of the IB program (pre-defined requirements: must do one class in each of 6 subject areas, plus the things listed above).... so when we were looking to move, the IB pyramids were deal-breakers for us. It was maddening to our real estate agent, and frustrating for us b/c there were houses that would have been good for us but for the IB. We went with an AP pyramid b/c it has a more a la carte program.

If your kid is definitely a strong student and motivated to complete all the different requirements for IB, it is a good program and will look good for applications. BUT, if you have kids who may or may not be strong in one or more subjects, and may not be ambitious enough to complete the outside requirements, then IB is not ideal. AP gives more flexibility without the stigma of "didn't go the extra mile."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than the theory of knowledge course which is unique, why is IB desirable if kids in general are not well rounded enough to get an IB diploma?

I think the writing involved makes IB desirable. My DS had to write a paper in EVERY single class - Math included. Granted, I went to HS in the dark ages, but I never heard of anyone having to write a paper in a math class.

I took AP Calculus A/B back in the early nineties, and I had to write a math paper. So I guess things are not all that different?

Anonymous wrote:Other than the theory of knowledge course which is unique, why is IB desirable if kids in general are not well rounded enough to get an IB diploma?

I think the writing involved makes IB desirable. My DS had to write a paper in EVERY single class - Math included. Granted, I went to HS in the dark ages, but I never heard of anyone having to write a paper in a math class.

FCPS has 25 high or secondary schools, and only 8 have IB. The rest is AP. So if you want AP and were looking at the Robinson area, look in Lake Braddock or Woodson instead. If you were looking in the South Lakes area, look at Oakton instead. If you were looking in the Marshall area, look at the McLean or Madison areas instead. Most of southeastern Fairfax is IB (Annandale, Edison, Justice, Lee, Mount Vernon), but Falls Church, West Potomac, Hayfield and South County are all AP.

Other than the theory of knowledge course which is unique, why is IB desirable if kids in general are not well rounded enough to get an IB diploma?

Anonymous wrote:It’s unlikely, but anything is possible. Currently in FCPS, your child can opt to attend the nearest AP or IB high school if they prefer a different program. My kids are at Marshall and know plenty of kids who are assigned to McLean or Madison and chose Marshall for IB, as well as kids who have placed out to McLean or Madison for AP.

What drives your preference for AP?
We were originally hesistant about IB because our oldest is firmly math and science focused and we were worried about college credit. But our oldest is a senior now, and is completing the IB diploma with a significant amount of advanced math, science, and computer science coursework and we have found that credit-for-credit in either AP or IB is fading away at most colleges anyway. Most colleges do not allow you to place out of courses required for your major and strongly advise against placing out of prerequisites because most students with high AP or IB scores are still not prepared for upper level coursework freshman year. We have also found that most of the admissions officers and interviewers my child has met with are very impressed by the IB diploma.

Even at Marshall, 75% of the seniors graduate not on track to obtain an IB diploma. At some IB schools in FCPS, that percentage is over 90%.

Anonymous wrote:As some of the schools get more crowded, they’ve stopped accepting pupil placements. McLean has been closed to AP pupil placements for several years. Marshall closed to IB pupil placements starting this fall. Madison had been capping AP pupil placements and I wouldn’t be surprised if they are now closed to additional placements as well. For now, the best advice is to buy in an AP district if you prefer AP because the placement options may be more limited than you’d think.

One clarification: schools have closed to new pupil placements, but have allowed kids who had already pupil placed to continue attending those schools.

As some of the schools get more crowded, they’ve stopped accepting pupil placements. McLean has been closed to AP pupil placements for several years. Marshall closed to IB pupil placements starting this fall. Madison had been capping AP pupil placements and I wouldn’t be surprised if they are now closed to additional placements as well. For now, the best advice is to buy in an AP district if you prefer AP because the placement options may be more limited than you’d think.

It’s unlikely, but anything is possible. Currently in FCPS, your child can opt to attend the nearest AP or IB high school if they prefer a different program. My kids are at Marshall and know plenty of kids who are assigned to McLean or Madison and chose Marshall for IB, as well as kids who have placed out to McLean or Madison for AP.

What drives your preference for AP?
We were originally hesistant about IB because our oldest is firmly math and science focused and we were worried about college credit. But our oldest is a senior now, and is completing the IB diploma with a significant amount of advanced math, science, and computer science coursework and we have found that credit-for-credit in either AP or IB is fading away at most colleges anyway. Most colleges do not allow you to place out of courses required for your major and strongly advise against placing out of prerequisites because most students with high AP or IB scores are still not prepared for upper level coursework freshman year. We have also found that most of the admissions officers and interviewers my child has met with are very impressed by the IB diploma.

Anonymous wrote:We're looking at buying a home in Fairfax and want to take high schools into account (our kids are more than a decade from high school and I realize that boundaries move, but we're hoping to only have to buy once). I have a strong preference for AP over IB and was wondering if there was any sense of whether Fairfax may move away from IB long-term. I know this is a bit of a crystal ball question, but I was wondering if there had been any rumblings.

No. Also, most IB schools in FCPS are in low performing pyramids, are you knowingly buying in one of those pyramids?

We're looking at buying a home in Fairfax and want to take high schools into account (our kids are more than a decade from high school and I realize that boundaries move, but we're hoping to only have to buy once). I have a strong preference for AP over IB and was wondering if there was any sense of whether Fairfax may move away from IB long-term. I know this is a bit of a crystal ball question, but I was wondering if there had been any rumblings.