To the immediate PP, I am the OP. I’m long winded IRL too. I honestly have tried to look at my role. But tbh I think it has more to do with indulging all parties (DH, FIL, GF) to the extent that I doubt it is healthy for all involved, including myself and my kids. My kids don’t adore GF but they also do not perceive her someone who doesn’t want them around.

Some of the ongoing issue for me is the future unknowns (agree with PP that we don’t know what GF will be like as a caregiver to FIL and DH, BIL/SIL have all voiced that concern). Another issue is that it’s hard to navigate feeling disliked and unwelcome, both for me and on behalf of my DH and kids.

I have not had a direct discussion with GF because DH and FIL have expressed they would not want that. I want to respect that the DH/FIL relationship is central to this. They had a recent discussion, around the time i created this post, in which DH said that we feel our visits creat stress and tension in their home and would love to have FIL visit us.
This is the solution I’d come up with but I don’t think DH is okay with us not going to them, period. I have suggested a hotel as the only way I think we can go visit FIL in which we can dictate any terms of the visit but not yet sure DH will agree. But I do appreciate the input I’ve gotten here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post needs a TL;DR. As a general rule, OP, any situation can be summed up in a paragraph, maybe two at the most; if people need more information, they can ask questions. When something gets to be this long, it tends to suggest the poster is steeped in the drama, which further tends to point to the poster as being an active part of the problem.

If you have nothing to contribute, stay off the thread. The rest of have reasonable attention spans and can read the op just fine.

I was being completely serious in my observation, which was only of a trend, not stating any absolutes about OP. If OP can do a sincere assessment of her role here and say she's not contributing to the dynamic in anyway, good for her. If not, then maybe she needs to change some things.

Anonymous wrote:This post needs a TL;DR. As a general rule, OP, any situation can be summed up in a paragraph, maybe two at the most; if people need more information, they can ask questions. When something gets to be this long, it tends to suggest the poster is steeped in the drama, which further tends to point to the poster as being an active part of the problem.

If you have nothing to contribute, stay off the thread. The rest of have reasonable attention spans and can read the op just fine.

Has it not occurred to anyone to just ask Faux-MIL what's up?

Hi Margaret, it's Jessica. I just wanted to talk to you because our relationship seems to be getting more strained. Are you upset with us? Did one of the kids break a vase at your house and nobody told me? I'd like for things to be good with all of us, but I can sense some upset feelings. What's going on?

Then see what she says.

This post needs a TL;DR. As a general rule, OP, any situation can be summed up in a paragraph, maybe two at the most; if people need more information, they can ask questions. When something gets to be this long, it tends to suggest the poster is steeped in the drama, which further tends to point to the poster as being an active part of the problem.

This person has mental issues around kids (I am prepared to bet it's anxiety/OCD-related).
You cannot change that.

Here's what I would do:

1. Have a clear conversation with both of them that I am concerned about her hang-ups with children, and that I notice it has worsened. I would suggest she see a psychologist for an evaluation (not a therapist).

2. That I want to keep visiting but will be exerting myself less even though I want to continue seeing FIL.
Keep in mind he may continue to visit you for a bit, but there will come a time when he won't be able to anymore and you will have to do all the driving.

3. What if he declines, doesn't go into a nursing home and the girlfriend makes it difficult for him to have visitors at home? Will your children be grown by then and it'll be fine, or will she go off the deep end and not allow adults?

OP, several things you mentioned sound fine. A few boundaries sound odd. Might be old age. Having said that, work with what you have. How the relationship "should" be, according to you, is irrelevant. Work within the parameters that exist.

Anonymous wrote:It sounds to me like there already are a plentiful amount of boundaries in place and that perhaps you need fewer, not more. What further boundaries do you envision other than those already set by your FIL's GF?

If it is so stressful to your FIL's GF to host you then he should begin visiting you more often, either with or without his GF. Perhaps if she is socializing with your children when she doesn't have the burden of entertaining, she might find it easier. It does sound like she bears most of the load when they issue invitations to their home.

In the meantime, begin doing more of the asking and hosting. Your FIL can decide if he wants to take you up on your offer or not. But don't close the door on him just because you're chafing at his GF's boundary setting.

Good points. I very much want my kids to have a strong relationship with my FIL. Generally speaking we have gone to him/them 2-4 times a year since my oldest DC was born. We have also extended many invitations for FIL to come and in the past he came to visit quite a bit. My issue with the GF is not that we need better or clearer boundaries from her but rather that I feel my DH, BIL/SIL and I have generally tried to accommodate her every request, to the extent that I think it is beyond reasonable, without setting any boundaries in response. For example, driving 10+ hours round trip to be told we can’t visit in their home for more than 2-3 hours and sometimes not at all, meaning our only time with FIL is hosting him in our hotel room or meeting at a restaurant.

I certainly don’t feel we can dictate how or when we are at their home but feel like it’s reasonable to say at some point that we don’t feel welcome, rather than just not going anymore at all.

Anonymous wrote:From your description of not being invited to the girlfriend's kids' bar mitzvahs, it sounds like she herself has kids. Which makes this strange. Or makes it sounds like her kids and your kids have a conflict. How old is she, and is there an age difference between the girlfriend and the FIL, and what are the ages of all the kids?

FIL is in his 70s. We are not allowed to know her exact age (not joking) but ballpark mid-late 50s. Her kids were late elementary/middle school age when we met them; we were adults well into our 20s. Her kids were being bar mitzvahed when our oldest nephew was a baby and then a toddler. Our relationship with her kids isn’t close/cozy—they’re now in their 20s and we are middle aged. There is zero conflict between her kids and our collective kids, who range in age from 4-12.

Is is strange, in that I cannot think of what any of us has done—adult or child—to estrange her in any way. I think it’s more likely that as her kids have aged and moved out, and she doesn’t have grandkids of her own—that she largely does not want to deal with children. And/or that her anxiety (she’s clearly anxious, not clear if it’s diagnosed or treated as such) has worsened over the years and something about having our kids around exacerbates it. At the most recent “family” event, to which our children were invited and then uninvited, another nearby relative was also told she could not bring her children. So it’s not always unique to our kids/FIL’s grandkids.

From your description of not being invited to the girlfriend's kids' bar mitzvahs, it sounds like she herself has kids. Which makes this strange. Or makes it sounds like her kids and your kids have a conflict. How old is she, and is there an age difference between the girlfriend and the FIL, and what are the ages of all the kids?

It sounds to me like there already are a plentiful amount of boundaries in place and that perhaps you need fewer, not more. What further boundaries do you envision other than those already set by your FIL's GF?

If it is so stressful to your FIL's GF to host you then he should begin visiting you more often, either with or without his GF. Perhaps if she is socializing with your children when she doesn't have the burden of entertaining, she might find it easier. It does sound like she bears most of the load when they issue invitations to their home.

In the meantime, begin doing more of the asking and hosting. Your FIL can decide if he wants to take you up on your offer or not. But don't close the door on him just because you're chafing at his GF's boundary setting.

OP again. After hearing about the barbecue (which would be such a nice chance to hang out w extended family, who we see 1-2 times a year) DH was bothered and talked to FIL to clarify that we’re not invited bc of having kids. At the end of that convo he and FIL agreed that FIL visiting more often makes the most sense.

I honestly think all kids involved are very normal. Mine are shy and that seems to bug GF—I guess she feels like they’re not warming up to her quickly enough at each visit? But there’s zero conflict between the cousins.

I definitely think she does more “hosting” although even when DH or I say that we’ll cook a dinner or order a pizza for everyone the stress level seems the same. I also think that hosting all of us—9 people, 5 are kids—is crazy but FIL seems so sad when we say we’ll stay in a hotel. She’s also imposed restrictions about who sleeps where when we visit *and she’s not even there for the duration of our visit.*

Any chance there is some conflict between the cousins that she is overreacting to? Is there a chance she sees one of your kids as being difficult to be around, justified or not?

I think you can justify not visiting and having FIL visit more often.

It sounds like she has anxiety and/or doesn’t like kids, guessing a bit of both. The limited hours really sound like anxiety.

It *also* sounds like she does all the work of hosting and not FIL, yes? That might be part of it.

Talk with your DH: if he wants to speak up, he should, and regardless I think you stop visiting them as a family.

Hopefully I can keep this relatively short--DH's mom died decades ago and my FIL didn't date for many years after her death. For the past 15 years, give or take, he has been in a relationship. His GF (they live together, aren't married and I suspect never will be) struck me in the first years I knew her as a lovely person. She is overall a high strung/anxious person but neither DH or I ever had any conflict with her until we started having kids.

My BIL and SIL have 3 kids, oldest is 12. DH and I have 2 kids, oldest is 10. I would say that initially the GF was pleased--seemed to like meeting our kids as babies, happy to host us--definitely not as over the moon as my FIL, who often came to visit without her, but happy enough to be...something? She is absolutely not a grandma and has made that clear but that's not an issue.

Over the years, DH and my BIL/SIL and I have begun feeling progressively less welcome by GF. This started several years back--ie when our kids were babies/toddlers we were told we could not attend certain family events like her kids' bar mitzvahs. Fine! We also would get detailed and slightly beleaguered emails before a visit--wanting very specific shopping lists, meal plans, etc. Also fine--I get that hosting a family of 4-5 can be a lot (though DH and FIL have both resisted my hinting or outright asking to stay in hotel).

In more recent years, it's gotten much more intense--meaning that if we visit and stay in a hotel we are told we cannot be in their home outside of very specific hours--it's never "stop in for lunch" but rather "do not show up before 12pm and plan to leave by 2pm." She might phrase it slightly more nicely and it's usually conveyed in a halfhearted way by FIL but there are times we've gone for a weekend and been told we cannot be in their home for more than 3-4 hours.

This year, she hosted a party and told us they'd love to include us and all of the grandkids. We made plans to go for the weekend, it's a 4-5 hour drive. As the date neared, long story short, she revoked the kids' invites. We know no sitters in the area and in the end DH went and the kids and I sat out. Now, DH has found out that FIL and GF host an annual barbecue which includes all aunts and uncles, and this year most cousins, but we will not be invited bc they do not want kids to attend.

In large part, I feel like I can stay out of this. I feel sad for my DH who does not have a mother anymore, and this underscores how disappointing it is that his mom will never meet our kids and died before becoming a grandma. And I feel bad for my FIL who is a very doting grandpa who is seeing his grandkids (all of them) less and less often bc of how GF treats us. But I also feel like...this is his choice.

At this point, my dilemma is, how nice do I have to be to GF? She has made it clear in so many ways that she finds my kids and nephews/niece to be a hassle and does not seem to be interested in having a relationship with any of them beyond the most basic pleasantries. At this point my sense is that she doesn't care all that much for me either (not as sure about DH or BIL/SIL as I have not witnessed as many interactions with them). But do I suck it up and treat her like part of one big happy family anyway...? We don't host any holiday gatherings and have included her and her kids in any big events (wedding, etc). Do I keep going to visit and indulge her increasingly extensive demands and chilly behavior towards my kids?