Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grounded. Loses all privileges. Not just no phone, no TV, no electronics, no Wifi.

He loses the door to his bedroom.

Then he does extra chores to earn things back, one by one.

Do not do this.

Ok so what?

Since punishment didn't work perhaps it's time for a different approach.

I would (and have) sit down with your son, tell him that you would like to have a closer relationship and ask him what you can do to make that happen.

And then listen. And be prepared to work with him. It really works if you want to build a relationship.

But if you want blind obedience, ignore everything I just said. You may be able to punish your way to blind obedience but you will not be close to your son. You have to decide what path you want to take.

Anonymous wrote:Natural consequence. He borrowed something of yours and left it out refuses to put it away when asked. Then from now on he is not allowed to borrow items belonging to you, until he can demonstrate being responsible. If he ever hopes to borrow something as big as the car, he needs to show he is respectful and responsible.

If he needs a ride somewhere, or other non essential favor then respond “No. It’s ok. I don’t need to do that right now.”

The only place I drive him is to his activity. Which I pay for (at the beginning of the year).

Anonymous wrote:Grounded. Loses all privileges. Not just no phone, no TV, no electronics, no Wifi.

He loses the door to his bedroom.

Then he does extra chores to earn things back, one by one.

Do not do this.

Natural consequence. He borrowed something of yours and left it out refuses to put it away when asked. Then from now on he is not allowed to borrow items belonging to you, until he can demonstrate being responsible. If he ever hopes to borrow something as big as the car, he needs to show he is respectful and responsible.

If he needs a ride somewhere, or other non essential favor then respond “No. It’s ok. I don’t need to do that right now.”

Anonymous wrote:He put the items in the living room before school on purpose because he knew I wanted it decluttered for guests coming today. He was about to leave for school. If he didn’t move it then, I would have to move it. And in fact, saying, “Please clean your mess before dinner.” Just results in... him not cleaning his mess before dinner. I’m actually not a super authoritarian person in general. He’s going out of his way to be defiant and that’s what I need help sorting out.

Why do you think he is suddenly vindictive like this?

This is completely different from just being a little sloppy, you know, so you should have explained this in your first post. It's unacceptable, actually. He would be sat down by his father and I, and talked to seriously about that kind of sabotage. If you drive him around, give him an allowance, cook his meals, do his laundry, do anything for him, I would stop until he tidies up the house, apologizes and promises never to do it again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You can't order him around, OP, and say: "Pick it up now." That's too authoritarian and control-freaky and anybody would balk. Those of us with an oppositional streak would refuse just on those grounds

What you can do is say: "I want you to pick up all your stuff in this room/in the house before dinner/after dinner/before the guests come in half an hour". Then he gets a measure of freedom to manage his time and that feels less aggressive and controlling.

Exactly. And if he doesn't, then you get to choose what to do with the stuff as he has effectively abandoned it. Sometimes things in our house get tossed that way, or thrown into a box in the basement.

Unfortunately, it was my thing that he had borrowed and decided not to put away!

Next time he wants to borrow something from him, he doesn't get to. That's a logical consequence.

Anonymous wrote:Don’t flame me, but my teen has started being openly defiant. I’ve already taken away his phone. That’s really the only thing he cares about. Now that I have the phone, I have no other leverage. For example, I ask him to pick up something that he left in the living room and he says, “No. It’s ok. I don’t need to do that right now.” And I say,”Yes. You do. I’m telling you to do it now.” And he just sits there. What do you do?

You decide whether this is something worth making a big fuss about, or not.

If it isn't, you let it go.

If it is, you remind him of the next thing he wants you to do and tell him that you're disinclined to do it.

Clearly there is something going on. I would try to find out what it is. Doubling down on punishments doesn't get to the root of the issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You can't order him around, OP, and say: "Pick it up now." That's too authoritarian and control-freaky and anybody would balk. Those of us with an oppositional streak would refuse just on those grounds

What you can do is say: "I want you to pick up all your stuff in this room/in the house before dinner/after dinner/before the guests come in half an hour". Then he gets a measure of freedom to manage his time and that feels less aggressive and controlling.

Exactly. And if he doesn't, then you get to choose what to do with the stuff as he has effectively abandoned it. Sometimes things in our house get tossed that way, or thrown into a box in the basement.

Unfortunately, it was my thing that he had borrowed and decided not to put away!

Grounded. Loses all privileges. Not just no phone, no TV, no electronics, no Wifi.

He loses the door to his bedroom.

Then he does extra chores to earn things back, one by one.

He put the items in the living room before school on purpose because he knew I wanted it decluttered for guests coming today. He was about to leave for school. If he didn’t move it then, I would have to move it. And in fact, saying, “Please clean your mess before dinner.” Just results in... him not cleaning his mess before dinner. I’m actually not a super authoritarian person in general. He’s going out of his way to be defiant and that’s what I need help sorting out.

Anonymous wrote:
You can't order him around, OP, and say: "Pick it up now." That's too authoritarian and control-freaky and anybody would balk. Those of us with an oppositional streak would refuse just on those grounds

What you can do is say: "I want you to pick up all your stuff in this room/in the house before dinner/after dinner/before the guests come in half an hour". Then he gets a measure of freedom to manage his time and that feels less aggressive and controlling.

Exactly. And if he doesn't, then you get to choose what to do with the stuff as he has effectively abandoned it. Sometimes things in our house get tossed that way, or thrown into a box in the basement.

You can't order him around, OP, and say: "Pick it up now." That's too authoritarian and control-freaky and anybody would balk. Those of us with an oppositional streak would refuse just on those grounds

What you can do is say: "I want you to pick up all your stuff in this room/in the house before dinner/after dinner/before the guests come in half an hour". Then he gets a measure of freedom to manage his time and that feels less aggressive and controlling.

Don’t flame me, but my teen has started being openly defiant. I’ve already taken away his phone. That’s really the only thing he cares about. Now that I have the phone, I have no other leverage. For example, I ask him to pick up something that he left in the living room and he says, “No. It’s ok. I don’t need to do that right now.” And I say,”Yes. You do. I’m telling you to do it now.” And he just sits there. What do you do?