"Priced-out" = better neighbors moving in

Anonymous wrote:Oh please. Who should be forced to keep a house they don't want to maintain? A homeowner should be allowed to tear down if they want to. Otherwise you will get blight.

Then why shouldn't they be allowed to teardown and replace with TH's, or add an accessory unit? I love when people get all libertarian in defense of mcmansions, but are all for "preserving neighborhood character" and "externalities" when its about density.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, zoning laws make a difference. Allowing developers to build up would allow them to fit more living units in the same footprint - so of course they can be less expensive. Allowing basement apartments or allowing families to build an accessory dwelling unit (aka small apartment) in their backyard would allow them to offset the high cost of their house, making it more affordable.

But the people who think that they have a god-given right to prevent any change whatsoever in their community would have a fit about any zoning change that allows these things to happen.

Well, zoning is also about density. If you allow to build up/accessory units/whatever - appropriate changes should be made to infrastructure - schools, roads, etc.
It's not that simple. Traffic in Bethesda is already a nightmare, schools are overcrowded.

Transit, walking, biking, carpooling, telework, can all provide alternatives to autos, and most new dense developments have transpotation demand management plans to help (accessory units don't but I don't think they generate that many added cars).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, zoning laws make a difference. Allowing developers to build up would allow them to fit more living units in the same footprint - so of course they can be less expensive. Allowing basement apartments or allowing families to build an accessory dwelling unit (aka small apartment) in their backyard would allow them to offset the high cost of their house, making it more affordable.

But the people who think that they have a god-given right to prevent any change whatsoever in their community would have a fit about any zoning change that allows these things to happen.

Well, zoning is also about density. If you allow to build up/accessory units/whatever - appropriate changes should be made to infrastructure - schools, roads, etc.
It's not that simple. Traffic in Bethesda is already a nightmare, schools are overcrowded.

People living in the vicinity of downtown Bethesda are walking or biking to the metro or walking to the stores, not driving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are zoning laws responsible for people being priced out of the public school system in Bethesda, MD? Too many old SFHs are being torn down to build large McMansions in their place. The old SFHs cost from $800K to $1.25MM so for the builder to make profit, the new McMansions will have to sell for $2.5MM and up. The ratio of total square feet of home to square feet of lot area for the new McMansion is several multiple times that of the ratio for the old home. I blame zoning laws in Montgomery county to be the root cause of people being priced out of Bethesda, MD and its public schools resulting in increased class segregation.

Unless we elect county officials who value and promote economic diversity, racial diversity, and more equal access to all residents the situation will not change. We voters should realize that the special interest groups and lobbyists may shell out campaign contributions and offer other incentives but they also have only one vote per person. We are in much greater number than the special interest groups and the lobbyists.

You are sort of onto something but not quite.

We do need more development near transit and Bethesda is a good example of this. Though unless I'm mistaken most of what is currently planned for Bethesda is commercial and not residential.

Having said that the solution to under performing schools is not more transit oriented development.

Upper NW and Bethesda both have the same problem - there has been an explosion in their public school populations (though in Upper NW it is not really because of development of which there has been little) but in both jurisdictions there is a cap to how many more people can be squeezed into the public schools in the higher performing areas.

The solution in both places has to be improving lower performing public schools.

And maybe zoning in the form of transit oriented development can be a way to incentivize middle and upper middle class folks to live in neighborhoods they previously would not have considered and thus lift those schools.

In DC it appears that this is working at the Elementary school level but there isn't much evidence that this is working yet at the middle and high school level.

Perhaps the coming Purple Line, which will represent a big increase in transit capacity for Lower Montgomery County, will have a similar catalytic impact?

Agreed. And this will happen by (1.) increasing density near transit in order to provide cover to (2.) break up the current feed patterns and boundary lines. Only so many kids can go to BCC and WJ. They must shrink the current boundaries at some point.

Furthermore, I think we will see re-zoning, especially of SFH blocks right near major commercial strips. I'm looking squarely at Friendship Village, Chevy Chase, and Somerset blocks just adjacent to Wisconsin Ave commercial strip. I think it's only a matter of time (less than 5 years) where we see them allowing developers to tear down an old house and replace it with 3 unit condo buildings (similar to what you see in DC).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, zoning laws make a difference. Allowing developers to build up would allow them to fit more living units in the same footprint - so of course they can be less expensive. Allowing basement apartments or allowing families to build an accessory dwelling unit (aka small apartment) in their backyard would allow them to offset the high cost of their house, making it more affordable.

But the people who think that they have a god-given right to prevent any change whatsoever in their community would have a fit about any zoning change that allows these things to happen.

Well, zoning is also about density. If you allow to build up/accessory units/whatever - appropriate changes should be made to infrastructure - schools, roads, etc.
It's not that simple. Traffic in Bethesda is already a nightmare, schools are overcrowded.

The county does need to do better on school capacity.

But on roads the entire point of building the Purple Line is to make Bethesda a walking and transit focused community. DC has more density and less roadway capacity and it works just fine transportation wise. With the Purple Line Bethesda will have transit capacity equal to anything found in any residential part of DC (and will still have way more roadway and parking capacity) so if the county is smart they won't be investing in more roads or parking.

Anonymous wrote:Are zoning laws responsible for people being priced out of the public school system in Bethesda, MD? Too many old SFHs are being torn down to build large McMansions in their place. The old SFHs cost from $800K to $1.25MM so for the builder to make profit, the new McMansions will have to sell for $2.5MM and up. The ratio of total square feet of home to square feet of lot area for the new McMansion is several multiple times that of the ratio for the old home. I blame zoning laws in Montgomery county to be the root cause of people being priced out of Bethesda, MD and its public schools resulting in increased class segregation.

Unless we elect county officials who value and promote economic diversity, racial diversity, and more equal access to all residents the situation will not change. We voters should realize that the special interest groups and lobbyists may shell out campaign contributions and offer other incentives but they also have only one vote per person. We are in much greater number than the special interest groups and the lobbyists.

You are sort of onto something but not quite.

We do need more development near transit and Bethesda is a good example of this. Though unless I'm mistaken most of what is currently planned for Bethesda is commercial and not residential.

Having said that the solution to under performing schools is not more transit oriented development.

Upper NW and Bethesda both have the same problem - there has been an explosion in their public school populations (though in Upper NW it is not really because of development of which there has been little) but in both jurisdictions there is a cap to how many more people can be squeezed into the public schools in the higher performing areas.

The solution in both places has to be improving lower performing public schools.

And maybe zoning in the form of transit oriented development can be a way to incentivize middle and upper middle class folks to live in neighborhoods they previously would not have considered and thus lift those schools.

In DC it appears that this is working at the Elementary school level but there isn't much evidence that this is working yet at the middle and high school level.

Perhaps the coming Purple Line, which will represent a big increase in transit capacity for Lower Montgomery County, will have a similar catalytic impact?

Anonymous wrote:Yes, zoning laws make a difference. Allowing developers to build up would allow them to fit more living units in the same footprint - so of course they can be less expensive. Allowing basement apartments or allowing families to build an accessory dwelling unit (aka small apartment) in their backyard would allow them to offset the high cost of their house, making it more affordable.

But the people who think that they have a god-given right to prevent any change whatsoever in their community would have a fit about any zoning change that allows these things to happen.

Well, zoning is also about density. If you allow to build up/accessory units/whatever - appropriate changes should be made to infrastructure - schools, roads, etc.
It's not that simple. Traffic in Bethesda is already a nightmare, schools are overcrowded.

Anonymous wrote:Oh please. Who should be forced to keep a house they don't want to maintain? A homeowner should be allowed to tear down if they want to. Otherwise you will get blight.

This doesn't make any sense at all - so the choices are tear downs and McMansions or blight? Huh?

Yes, zoning laws make a difference. Allowing developers to build up would allow them to fit more living units in the same footprint - so of course they can be less expensive. Allowing basement apartments or allowing families to build an accessory dwelling unit (aka small apartment) in their backyard would allow them to offset the high cost of their house, making it more affordable.

But the people who think that they have a god-given right to prevent any change whatsoever in their community would have a fit about any zoning change that allows these things to happen.

It doesn't have to be a $2.5 million dollar house, that's just what the builders charge. They are making a killing. It doesn't cost them much over $100/foot plus the lot. You do the math.

However, it costs to build. So, if you want a smaller house, buy a teardown and build a 2000 sq ft. house, but it will cost not much less than a 6000 sq ft one, so you will lose money.

Oh please. Who should be forced to keep a house they don't want to maintain? A homeowner should be allowed to tear down if they want to. Otherwise you will get blight.

Housing prices are going to continue to rise. A way to combat this is to ensure that the new high-rise development has larger 3BR+ units (like the pre-war buildings in NYC) that enable families to live in big enough spaces that are not SFH.

Whatever. Nobody is entitle to live in Bethesda.

Are zoning laws responsible for people being priced out of the public school system in Bethesda, MD? Too many old SFHs are being torn down to build large McMansions in their place. The old SFHs cost from $800K to $1.25MM so for the builder to make profit, the new McMansions will have to sell for $2.5MM and up. The ratio of total square feet of home to square feet of lot area for the new McMansion is several multiple times that of the ratio for the old home. I blame zoning laws in Montgomery county to be the root cause of people being priced out of Bethesda, MD and its public schools resulting in increased class segregation.

Unless we elect county officials who value and promote economic diversity, racial diversity, and more equal access to all residents the situation will not change. We voters should realize that the special interest groups and lobbyists may shell out campaign contributions and offer other incentives but they also have only one vote per person. We are in much greater number than the special interest groups and the lobbyists.