OP: There is absolutely no requirement for anyone to give anyone else a GIFT.

It's a GIFT. Give or don't give if you want.

But there is NO obligations of any kind for your OB to give ANYONE a GIFT if he doesn't feel like it.

I can't imagine taking something like this that seriously. Just tell DD OB isn't good at gifts but expresses his love in different ways. Your family is supposed to love you for yourself, flaws and all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The upset people should TELL him, for God's sake. As in:
"Son, we raised you to be observant of social niceties. One of them is giving a thoughtful gift for the host when invited to dinner. It's upsetting to us that you keep taking from everyone yet never reciprocate. Here are recent examples: X, Y, Z."

Gifts are such a meaningless gesture among close family, honestly, I can well understand why he doesn't do it. But if people in your family care about that sort of thing, then they need to TALK.

OB and my parents have a difficult and fragile relationship. My parents saying anything to him would not help things.

The bolded might be in part what is going on.

Well duh, it's obvious that there's more going on here than bringing a bottle of wine to dinner, OP. Why make this about giving token gifts? It's not. Which is why we're telling you to stay out of it, and let them manage their own relationship.

You're absolutely right that there's more than just gifts going on. Maybe I'm being a buttinsky, but I don't think anyone likes family conflict. When things were particularly tense between OB and my parents, my other brother and I would buy gifts for our nephew and say they were from our parents. Maybe OB saw through it, but things like that actually help to keep the peace in our family. An occasional bottle of wine would be an easy and effective band-aid.

Sounds like your parents are the problem, not your brother.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The upset people should TELL him, for God's sake. As in:
"Son, we raised you to be observant of social niceties. One of them is giving a thoughtful gift for the host when invited to dinner. It's upsetting to us that you keep taking from everyone yet never reciprocate. Here are recent examples: X, Y, Z."

Gifts are such a meaningless gesture among close family, honestly, I can well understand why he doesn't do it. But if people in your family care about that sort of thing, then they need to TALK.

OB and my parents have a difficult and fragile relationship. My parents saying anything to him would not help things.

The bolded might be in part what is going on.

Well duh, it's obvious that there's more going on here than bringing a bottle of wine to dinner, OP. Why make this about giving token gifts? It's not. Which is why we're telling you to stay out of it, and let them manage their own relationship.

You're absolutely right that there's more than just gifts going on. Maybe I'm being a buttinsky, but I don't think anyone likes family conflict. When things were particularly tense between OB and my parents, my other brother and I would buy gifts for our nephew and say they were from our parents. Maybe OB saw through it, but things like that actually help to keep the peace in our family. An occasional bottle of wine would be an easy and effective band-aid.

Anonymous wrote:I think your older brother doesn't want to exchange gifts and the rest of you should stop giving him gifts.

This. I have the opposite problem with my brother following his divorce. Despite teetering on bankruptcy post-divorce, he gives my DD gifts *and* hand-me-downs, and for family dinners he brings wine, and gourmet desserts, and holiday crackers (the favors not the food), etc. At my request, we no longer exchange gifts between siblings, though.

Anyway, OP, just ask him to bring a bottle of wine and don't overthink your gifts to your nephew.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the solution is to be direct if you want him to contribute to a meal: "hey Older Brother, can you please bring a bottle of wine or a dessert to dinner on Saturday?"

And I'd scale back your own gift giving. Kids just don't need a ton of gifts from aunts and uncles. Buy smaller things for nephew. Maybe he just doesn't like the Forced Exchange of Stuff that Christmas and birthdays have become.

This. And it's odd that anyone is offended by his lack of gift-giving--it's not like his behavior changed or he is singling anyone else out. There's no reason to take it personally. And if the people who are actually bothered by it aren't willing to say anything to him, then it's their problem.

Actually, his behavior did change. He used to be an OTT gift giver. My mom has fond memories of OB as an adult making (not just buying) gifts for her. He used to spend a lot of brainpower thinking of cool and thoughtful gifts. No one expects him to do so now, but it's weird he doesn't get anyone anything anymore.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The upset people should TELL him, for God's sake. As in:
"Son, we raised you to be observant of social niceties. One of them is giving a thoughtful gift for the host when invited to dinner. It's upsetting to us that you keep taking from everyone yet never reciprocate. Here are recent examples: X, Y, Z."

Gifts are such a meaningless gesture among close family, honestly, I can well understand why he doesn't do it. But if people in your family care about that sort of thing, then they need to TALK.

OB and my parents have a difficult and fragile relationship. My parents saying anything to him would not help things.

The bolded might be in part what is going on.

Well duh, it's obvious that there's more going on here than bringing a bottle of wine to dinner, OP. Why make this about giving token gifts? It's not. Which is why we're telling you to stay out of it, and let them manage their own relationship.

Anonymous wrote:
The upset people should TELL him, for God's sake. As in:
"Son, we raised you to be observant of social niceties. One of them is giving a thoughtful gift for the host when invited to dinner. It's upsetting to us that you keep taking from everyone yet never reciprocate. Here are recent examples: X, Y, Z."

Gifts are such a meaningless gesture among close family, honestly, I can well understand why he doesn't do it. But if people in your family care about that sort of thing, then they need to TALK.

OB and my parents have a difficult and fragile relationship. My parents saying anything to him would not help things.

The bolded might be in part what is going on.

This is OP. He might not like the Forced Exchange of Stuff. Before any of us had kids, I suggested we either stop this or scale back to under $20 and no one supported this, but he might now.

I know he wants gifts for DS. Whenever my other brother asks for gift suggestions, OB sends us a long email with multiple options. My nephew's gifts usually run about $50-80 and OB never suggests that they are too expensive. Especially since the divorce, he wants DS to get lots of gifts from us so that DS wants to keep seeing us. I understand this since ex-DW tries to manipulate DS (guilt trip, bribe with gifts) so that he chooses not to see us. Sad situation.

I like the direct suggestion "please bring a bottle of wine" and will try this next time.

For my part, I'm not sure if what I'm doing is right or not. DH and I are much better off than OB and get his DS gifts about $50 because we know that OB can't afford them. I think he wants them, but it might sting his pride. With the divorce, OB needs to spend a lot of money to furnish his home and have things for his DS at his new home. A friend just gave me a bunch of nice books for DD, but they're too old for her so I asked OB if he wanted them (letting him know we didn't buy them). He sounded happy to get them so I passed them along. I probably should not do more than this to help him? Given his pride.

Anonymous wrote:
The upset people should TELL him, for God's sake. As in:
"Son, we raised you to be observant of social niceties. One of them is giving a thoughtful gift for the host when invited to dinner. It's upsetting to us that you keep taking from everyone yet never reciprocate. Here are recent examples: X, Y, Z."

Gifts are such a meaningless gesture among close family, honestly, I can well understand why he doesn't do it. But if people in your family care about that sort of thing, then they need to TALK.

Well, obviously they didn't, did they? I mean, if they had, he'd be doing it. Based on the facts, it appears that they raised him to believe that it's the wife/mom's job to handle this stuff, and to assume that his wife would take care of these things. Now that he has no wife, he's not giving gifts.

Anonymous wrote:I think the solution is to be direct if you want him to contribute to a meal: "hey Older Brother, can you please bring a bottle of wine or a dessert to dinner on Saturday?"

And I'd scale back your own gift giving. Kids just don't need a ton of gifts from aunts and uncles. Buy smaller things for nephew. Maybe he just doesn't like the Forced Exchange of Stuff that Christmas and birthdays have become.

This. And it's odd that anyone is offended by his lack of gift-giving--it's not like his behavior changed or he is singling anyone else out. There's no reason to take it personally. And if the people who are actually bothered by it aren't willing to say anything to him, then it's their problem.

The upset people should TELL him, for God's sake. As in:
"Son, we raised you to be observant of social niceties. One of them is giving a thoughtful gift for the host when invited to dinner. It's upsetting to us that you keep taking from everyone yet never reciprocate. Here are recent examples: X, Y, Z."

Gifts are such a meaningless gesture among close family, honestly, I can well understand why he doesn't do it. But if people in your family care about that sort of thing, then they need to TALK.

I think the solution is to be direct if you want him to contribute to a meal: "hey Older Brother, can you please bring a bottle of wine or a dessert to dinner on Saturday?"

And I'd scale back your own gift giving. Kids just don't need a ton of gifts from aunts and uncles. Buy smaller things for nephew. Maybe he just doesn't like the Forced Exchange of Stuff that Christmas and birthdays have become.

I think your older brother doesn't want to exchange gifts and the rest of you should stop giving him gifts.

Your parents are the ones who should say something to him though.

Older brother divorced with seven year old DS. Before he got married and for maybe the first year of marriage, he was actually good about giving gifts. Since then (about eight years ago), zero gifts and in some instances, it is glaringly rude. For instance, my 70-something parents will host a nice family dinner for 10 at their place, do the cooking and clean-up and buy drinks specifically for OB's DS. For eight years, OB has not once brought a bottle of wine, flowers or even a $2 bottle of soda. He DOES bring one thing and one thing only, each time: a six pack of IPA for HIM to drink (he will share if asked). At Christmas, he receives gifts from our parents and brother every year. DH and I buy Christmas and birthday gifts for his DS. OB's DS and our DD's birthdays are in the same month so the non-gifting is especially weird and obvious. He does give our DD hand-me-downs from DS.

I'm sure OB has his reasons and we would all be fine if he brought a gift half or even less than half of the occasions that call for it. It's the fact that he never brings anything. I'm guessing finances is one reason, but if he can afford and find the time to buy himself a $15 six-pack of IPA, why not buy a bottle of wine (that everyone can enjoy) once in a while instead? DH and I prefer books as gifts for DD and they're inexpensive. I think pride is an issue as well; he has the least money out of the family and would rather get DD nothing instead of a $10 book since he can't afford a $50 toy (which we don't want, anyway).

Ultimately, this annoys me, but doesn't affect my relationship with him and will not stop me from buying gifts for my nephew. It does, however, upset my parents greatly and affects their relationship with OB. They now refuse to meet with OB unless one of their other kids will also be there. I'm not close enough to OB to say anything, but my other brother who is closer to him did drop a hint. No effect. Not sure what more we can do?