Anonymous
05/04/2018 15:12
Subject: "balanced" approach to dog training
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I just had an intake/evaluation with a potential dog trainer. The issue we're having with our just-adopted, adult dog is that he pulls on the leash, to the extent that my kids can't safely walk him (and it's not so pleasant for adults). The trainer we met with today described his approach as "balanced," where he uses positive reinforcement at the beginning to teach the dog the expectations, but then uses corrections if the dog doesn't follow instructions after that.
That made me uncomfortable, as did the way he yanked on the leash to correct my dog during the intake. But if it's necessary, I guess I'll consider it.
And, while we're at it, recommendations for a trainer that uses only positive methods?
One more thing.
Right now you have an adult dog with unknown past and unpredictable behavior. And you need some results fast - like being able to walk your dog without being dragged around.
It's probably possible to correct this behavior, but it would take a lot of time and resources from the whole family - all of you have to be patient and consistent day after day, and you won't see immediate results.
Balanced approach with istablishing rewards first, and then using corrections will get you where you want to be faster, with more reliable results.
Think about it
PS I hired a positive only trainrs from your dogs friend before. It was all hunky dory when dog was a small pup. Once he got bigger, and hormons kicked in - it stopped working, urge to establish dominance in the pack as second dog after the leader (DH) was so strong, that I have to use appropriate methods to show my dog who's the boss in our pack.
It didn't "stop working", YOU stopped being consistent. "Pack"/"dominance" theory is a myth. Re: hormones - was your dog unneutered, too?!
Nope, I've been consistent, to the point I was only one walking the dog to teach him properly. At some point his behavior changed. And I was trying to work with positive only trainer. She couldn't do anything either. Her suggestions we're - give him more exercise, run him off, so he won't have energy to hump everyone. Very helpful. She was also against all those gentle leader/EZ walks. Anyway, at some point I give up, and went with Paw by Paw trainers. They also started with positive training, clicker, treats, etc, but then during first session went from regular collar to plastic prong to regular metal prong. Positive training has it's limitations.
Dominance is not a myth. Even positive training is about dominance. It's established by control over food. Human have treats/food - they're in charge.
Yes, my dog is intact, per vets suggestions we'll neuter them @18 month.
Anonymous
05/04/2018 14:39
Subject: "balanced" approach to dog training
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I just had an intake/evaluation with a potential dog trainer. The issue we're having with our just-adopted, adult dog is that he pulls on the leash, to the extent that my kids can't safely walk him (and it's not so pleasant for adults). The trainer we met with today described his approach as "balanced," where he uses positive reinforcement at the beginning to teach the dog the expectations, but then uses corrections if the dog doesn't follow instructions after that.
That made me uncomfortable, as did the way he yanked on the leash to correct my dog during the intake. But if it's necessary, I guess I'll consider it.
And, while we're at it, recommendations for a trainer that uses only positive methods?
One more thing.
Right now you have an adult dog with unknown past and unpredictable behavior. And you need some results fast - like being able to walk your dog without being dragged around.
It's probably possible to correct this behavior, but it would take a lot of time and resources from the whole family - all of you have to be patient and consistent day after day, and you won't see immediate results.
Balanced approach with istablishing rewards first, and then using corrections will get you where you want to be faster, with more reliable results.
Think about it
PS I hired a positive only trainrs from your dogs friend before. It was all hunky dory when dog was a small pup. Once he got bigger, and hormons kicked in - it stopped working, urge to establish dominance in the pack as second dog after the leader (DH) was so strong, that I have to use appropriate methods to show my dog who's the boss in our pack.
It didn't "stop working", YOU stopped being consistent. "Pack"/"dominance" theory is a myth. Re: hormones - was your dog unneutered, too?!
Anonymous
05/04/2018 14:38
Subject: Re:"balanced" approach to dog training
Just say no, OP. "Balanced" is just PR spin on outdated, fear-based training methods. You want a force-free/fear-free trainer who will work with you to find the right equipment (Gentle Leader? EZ Walk harness? Freedom harness?) as well as on leash manner cues and relationship-building. I highly recommend KissAble Canine and Dog Latin (in-home) or Your Dog's Friend and Woofs (class-based).
You'll have to be patient - total leash training around all kinds of distractions is tough and takes time. But I've trained two previously-reactive large dogs to have solid leash manners (well...the older one is solid. The younger one still has her moments!) using all positive methods and it's worth it to have that kind of relationship, versus one based on force, fear, or scary collars!
You'll have to be patient - total leash training around all kinds of distractions is tough and takes time. But I've trained two previously-reactive large dogs to have solid leash manners (well...the older one is solid. The younger one still has her moments!) using all positive methods and it's worth it to have that kind of relationship, versus one based on force, fear, or scary collars!
Anonymous
05/04/2018 14:21
Subject: "balanced" approach to dog training
Anonymous wrote:I just had an intake/evaluation with a potential dog trainer. The issue we're having with our just-adopted, adult dog is that he pulls on the leash, to the extent that my kids can't safely walk him (and it's not so pleasant for adults). The trainer we met with today described his approach as "balanced," where he uses positive reinforcement at the beginning to teach the dog the expectations, but then uses corrections if the dog doesn't follow instructions after that.
That made me uncomfortable, as did the way he yanked on the leash to correct my dog during the intake. But if it's necessary, I guess I'll consider it.
And, while we're at it, recommendations for a trainer that uses only positive methods?
One more thing.
Right now you have an adult dog with unknown past and unpredictable behavior. And you need some results fast - like being able to walk your dog without being dragged around.
It's probably possible to correct this behavior, but it would take a lot of time and resources from the whole family - all of you have to be patient and consistent day after day, and you won't see immediate results.
Balanced approach with istablishing rewards first, and then using corrections will get you where you want to be faster, with more reliable results.
Think about it
PS I hired a positive only trainrs from your dogs friend before. It was all hunky dory when dog was a small pup. Once he got bigger, and hormons kicked in - it stopped working, urge to establish dominance in the pack as second dog after the leader (DH) was so strong, that I have to use appropriate methods to show my dog who's the boss in our pack.
Anonymous
05/04/2018 13:46
Subject: "balanced" approach to dog training
If you're near Rockville, try Your Dog's Friend. Purely positive training.
Anonymous
05/04/2018 13:27
Subject: "balanced" approach to dog training
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don't like it when they yank the leash either. Its unnecessary cruelty.
Why not get a gentle leader harness leash that goes over his nose? We found this life changing with our large pulling dog. IT works like a horse harness - if he tries to pull, he just turns himself around to face me, there is no pain or "correction" in it
https://www.chewy.com/petsafe-premier-gentle-leader-quick/dp/52193?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=PetSafe&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5qrXBRC3ARIsAJq3bwqUCZfGAkGhbEuoBneizSpnSMn5VqK6dt7iTTUzgt5nTr1ImKVwXAIaAvj-EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Gentle leaders aren't very gentle.
Yep. Correction with yanking the leach even with prong collar on is more natural, I'd say "humane" way of teaching. That's how dog mama teaches they pups for undesirable behavior - slight nip on the neck. Dogs are not horses.
A regular leash on a large dog could mean you fall over when they pull. I saw a woman at our Vets who had a cut all down her forehead and nose from a pull that face planted her.
With a gentle leader the dog literally CANNOT pull you over. Its not about training its about control. And I'm 100% fine with that.
I know. My dog is the same. I use prong collar. Yanked couple of times in the beginning, now he's not pulling at all. And the is no every day discomfort for the dog unless he pulls (Which he doesn't anymore because he's well aware of the consequences).
My point is gentle leader is as far of from positive only training as prong collar. And many dog trainers think that gentle leader is worse, more cruel than properly used prong. Correction via gentle leader is more painful for dogs that correction via prong.
Anonymous
05/04/2018 13:16
Subject: "balanced" approach to dog training
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don't like it when they yank the leash either. Its unnecessary cruelty.
Why not get a gentle leader harness leash that goes over his nose? We found this life changing with our large pulling dog. IT works like a horse harness - if he tries to pull, he just turns himself around to face me, there is no pain or "correction" in it
https://www.chewy.com/petsafe-premier-gentle-leader-quick/dp/52193?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=PetSafe&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5qrXBRC3ARIsAJq3bwqUCZfGAkGhbEuoBneizSpnSMn5VqK6dt7iTTUzgt5nTr1ImKVwXAIaAvj-EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Gentle leaders aren't very gentle.
Yep. Correction with yanking the leach even with prong collar on is more natural, I'd say "humane" way of teaching. That's how dog mama teaches they pups for undesirable behavior - slight nip on the neck. Dogs are not horses.
A regular leash on a large dog could mean you fall over when they pull. I saw a woman at our Vets who had a cut all down her forehead and nose from a pull that face planted her.
With a gentle leader the dog literally CANNOT pull you over. Its not about training its about control. And I'm 100% fine with that.
Use an EZ walker. Control without the "gentle".
Anonymous
05/04/2018 11:52
Subject: "balanced" approach to dog training
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don't like it when they yank the leash either. Its unnecessary cruelty.
Why not get a gentle leader harness leash that goes over his nose? We found this life changing with our large pulling dog. IT works like a horse harness - if he tries to pull, he just turns himself around to face me, there is no pain or "correction" in it
https://www.chewy.com/petsafe-premier-gentle-leader-quick/dp/52193?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=PetSafe&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5qrXBRC3ARIsAJq3bwqUCZfGAkGhbEuoBneizSpnSMn5VqK6dt7iTTUzgt5nTr1ImKVwXAIaAvj-EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Gentle leaders aren't very gentle.
Yep. Correction with yanking the leach even with prong collar on is more natural, I'd say "humane" way of teaching. That's how dog mama teaches they pups for undesirable behavior - slight nip on the neck. Dogs are not horses.
A regular leash on a large dog could mean you fall over when they pull. I saw a woman at our Vets who had a cut all down her forehead and nose from a pull that face planted her.
With a gentle leader the dog literally CANNOT pull you over. Its not about training its about control. And I'm 100% fine with that.
Anonymous
05/04/2018 11:36
Subject: "balanced" approach to dog training
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don't like it when they yank the leash either. Its unnecessary cruelty.
Why not get a gentle leader harness leash that goes over his nose? We found this life changing with our large pulling dog. IT works like a horse harness - if he tries to pull, he just turns himself around to face me, there is no pain or "correction" in it
https://www.chewy.com/petsafe-premier-gentle-leader-quick/dp/52193?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=PetSafe&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5qrXBRC3ARIsAJq3bwqUCZfGAkGhbEuoBneizSpnSMn5VqK6dt7iTTUzgt5nTr1ImKVwXAIaAvj-EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Gentle leaders aren't very gentle.
Yep. Correction with yanking the leach even with prong collar on is more natural, I'd say "humane" way of teaching. That's how dog mama teaches they pups for undesirable behavior - slight nip on the neck. Dogs are not horses.
Anonymous
05/04/2018 05:04
Subject: "balanced" approach to dog training
Yanking on the leash is not cruelty. Dogs are extremely strong animals. This is neither painful nor distressing to them.
We visited a service animal training facility. These dogs have beautiful manners. They are trained exactly as you describe.
We visited a service animal training facility. These dogs have beautiful manners. They are trained exactly as you describe.
Anonymous
05/03/2018 21:07
Subject: Re:"balanced" approach to dog training
It depends on the dog whether or not a correction is strictly necessary. Many dogs will learn with only positive reinforcement, but some have ingrained bad habits, a really strong prey drive or are just more motivated by the reward that the undesirable behavior offers than by the reward offered by the owner, so a correction is helpful. If you do not like the way the trainer interacts with your dog, hire a different one, trust your judgement.
Anonymous
05/03/2018 18:39
Subject: "balanced" approach to dog training
Anonymous wrote:I don't like it when they yank the leash either. Its unnecessary cruelty.
Why not get a gentle leader harness leash that goes over his nose? We found this life changing with our large pulling dog. IT works like a horse harness - if he tries to pull, he just turns himself around to face me, there is no pain or "correction" in it
https://www.chewy.com/petsafe-premier-gentle-leader-quick/dp/52193?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=PetSafe&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5qrXBRC3ARIsAJq3bwqUCZfGAkGhbEuoBneizSpnSMn5VqK6dt7iTTUzgt5nTr1ImKVwXAIaAvj-EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Gentle leaders aren't very gentle.
Anonymous
05/03/2018 18:22
Subject: "balanced" approach to dog training
It's absolutely not necessary. My dogs have lovely loose leash walking skills, trained purely with positive reinforcement. Find another trainer.
Anonymous
05/03/2018 18:00
Subject: "balanced" approach to dog training
I don't like it when they yank the leash either. Its unnecessary cruelty.
Why not get a gentle leader harness leash that goes over his nose? We found this life changing with our large pulling dog. IT works like a horse harness - if he tries to pull, he just turns himself around to face me, there is no pain or "correction" in it
https://www.chewy.com/petsafe-premier-gentle-leader-quick/dp/52193?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=PetSafe&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5qrXBRC3ARIsAJq3bwqUCZfGAkGhbEuoBneizSpnSMn5VqK6dt7iTTUzgt5nTr1ImKVwXAIaAvj-EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Why not get a gentle leader harness leash that goes over his nose? We found this life changing with our large pulling dog. IT works like a horse harness - if he tries to pull, he just turns himself around to face me, there is no pain or "correction" in it
https://www.chewy.com/petsafe-premier-gentle-leader-quick/dp/52193?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=PetSafe&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5qrXBRC3ARIsAJq3bwqUCZfGAkGhbEuoBneizSpnSMn5VqK6dt7iTTUzgt5nTr1ImKVwXAIaAvj-EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Anonymous
05/03/2018 17:52
Subject: "balanced" approach to dog training
I just had an intake/evaluation with a potential dog trainer. The issue we're having with our just-adopted, adult dog is that he pulls on the leash, to the extent that my kids can't safely walk him (and it's not so pleasant for adults). The trainer we met with today described his approach as "balanced," where he uses positive reinforcement at the beginning to teach the dog the expectations, but then uses corrections if the dog doesn't follow instructions after that.
That made me uncomfortable, as did the way he yanked on the leash to correct my dog during the intake. But if it's necessary, I guess I'll consider it.
And, while we're at it, recommendations for a trainer that uses only positive methods?
That made me uncomfortable, as did the way he yanked on the leash to correct my dog during the intake. But if it's necessary, I guess I'll consider it.
And, while we're at it, recommendations for a trainer that uses only positive methods?