Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe we should use a German model and start tracking kids into vocations and professions starting from middle school.

I agree but America is all about the land of opportunities. I don't think people like the idea of someone's future being narrowed down for them while they are in their teens.

I don’t think we need to track kids, but we do need to do a much better job of making clear all the excellent career paths that do not involve a four year degree. And there are many.

I cringe every time I see one of those “100% of kids accepted to college!!!” things.

I agree that there are multiple paths to steady employment and solid compensation, and taking out more than the standard subsidized loan package is a risk, particularly for low-income, not particularly strong students going to just okay college. However, the realities are more complicated than go into a trade and then your problems are solved. Where I live, community colleges are massively oversubscribed for all of the programs that will actually prepare students for a path to a well paying job. Advanced manufacturing is growing her and pays well, but it tends to require more math than most of our students coming out of (not great) public schools can handle, and when they go to cc they get stuck in remedial classes and burn through their Pell money without getting credits (because you don't get credits for remedial work). I think poor and working class families are reluctant to go through the sacrifice of having a young person out of the workforce for a couple years when the end result is training in a trade. They've been through decades of layoffs in those jobs during economic downturns and shifts, and they don't see that work as a stable path for the long term.

It's only around DC and other metro areas. Not normal for a lot of places around the country.

"For more than 90% of the population, getting a four year degree at a #2500 ranked school is simply about going to class and doing the work just like they were an apprentice plumber."

I'm not sure I agree with "more than" but certainly somewhere approaching 90% could graduate from a 4-year college if they just applied the work ethic required to be a McDonalds assistant manager or an E-4 in the military.

I hope folks don't take this the wrong way, but I've done a little reading on this and I think the reason why is that a four-year education is higher quality. Obviously, there are outliers to this but the issue is more complex than just funneling more kids to another system that may not serve them well.

https://www.communitycollegereview.com/blog/7-problems-with-community-colleges-and-what-can-be-done-about-them

Anonymous wrote:Especially given the exorbitant cost, not including the opportunity cost of not earning for four years, potential for high debt load and relative low ROI when there are other alternatives out there?


There are other paths to professional success that will also pay you while you learn. Why steer students away?

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/04/29/high-paying-jobs-go-begging-while-high-school-grads-line-up-for-bachelors-degrees/

Why don't you steer your kids and let others steer their own?

I pushed it in my own home. I don't care what other kids do.

As we applied to colleges last fall, the hardest thing to decide was how selective were reach and match schools for our below average DCUM student.

Contrary to DCUM's beliefs DC got into 9 of the 10 schools they applied to 8 of the 9 with about 50% merit aid.

There are more than 3000 four year colleges in the USA. The reason we keep pushing them is because no one really knows which schools are the right level.

Even once a student is admitted, what they did in middle school doesn't have much to do with how hard they will work in college.

For more than 90% of the population, getting a four year degree at a #2500 ranked school is simply about going to class and doing the work just like they were an apprentice plumber.

There's nothing "successful" about being in so much debt, that people can't afford to get married, buy a house, or have a child, until AFTER your clock is DONE.

Just look at all the infertility problems people are having!

College debt into your 30's and 40's is so often a death chain around your neck.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe we should use a German model and start tracking kids into vocations and professions starting from middle school.

And the German model of free university education for all who qualify, would be great, too.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe we should use a German model and start tracking kids into vocations and professions starting from middle school.

I agree but America is all about the land of opportunities. I don't think people like the idea of someone's future being narrowed down for them while they are in their teens.

Maybe we should use a German model and start tracking kids into vocations and professions starting from middle school.

I agree there are alternatives. But if you have a kid who is gifted in math or some other subject, why would you waste his talents on iron working. It doesn't makes sense to me. I do think it makes sense for the kid who struggled through high school though.

I agree, there is more than one way to skin a cat. But snobs are gonna be snobs.

Especially given the exorbitant cost, not including the opportunity cost of not earning for four years, potential for high debt load and relative low ROI when there are other alternatives out there?


There are other paths to professional success that will also pay you while you learn. Why steer students away?

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/04/29/high-paying-jobs-go-begging-while-high-school-grads-line-up-for-bachelors-degrees/