Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 5th year. I have a net worth of around $0. My student loan balance is barely better than when I graduated, but my house equity + retirement is now worth more than my debt, so at least I have that.

So no, no "significant net worth." I'm trying to leave now but my offers have been too low to swallow.

I'm not in Law at all. Curious what someone at your level makes (salary + bonus) and how much debt you started off with. Have a kid who wants to be a lawyer but the picture you paint seems scary.

NP -- these days a 5th yr has to be around 300k or close to it (my guess -- I left a few yrs ago before the latest round of raises). I'm more curious about the debt -- how much did you start with that you've barely made a dent in 5 years? And is it low interest debt? I imagine the max amount of debt anyone could have would be around 500k -- at 70k/yr for 4 yrs undergrad + 3 law assuming you went private for all of it and didn't receive a single $ of grant money or parental help.

PP said that their loan was 160K to start with. Paying off over 5 years would have been about 40K/yr (once you build in interest) or about 3K/month once you factor in interest.

Kinda hard to say if it's a big deal or not depending on your other commitments.

You're right that, if I had paid $3k/mo toward my loans from year one, I could be debt-free today. I know people who made paying off the debt their sole focus and are close now. I had to pay for childcare and chose to pay into retirement and DP savings instead.

So in retrospect your capital allocation decision turned out to be good. The markets were rising over the last few years you were socking money away and your return is better than what you would have gotten if you were paying off your loans. More luck than anything else but it worked out.

Anonymous wrote:^Kids change the game entirely -- because you're making daycare or nanny payments and sometimes both if you have extremely long hours.

The investments vs. loans thing is definitely an issue. Most of my biglaw peers prioritized getting the loans paid off ASAP -- usually that meant putting little/nothing into 401ks, having minimal liquid savings, and having NO other investment accounts. This is despite the fact that we graduated at a time when prevailing student loan rates were around 3% -- and the market was/has been returning far more than that. But people tend to prioritize it even if it isn't a financially savvy move bc you can make more in the market than your borrowing rate -- bc they just want to be DONE with loans. It's a mental thing that a lot of lawyers buy into.

It's a mental thing a lot of everyone buys into. Read the threads about paying off your mortgage. A lot of people want to be debt free.

^Kids change the game entirely -- because you're making daycare or nanny payments and sometimes both if you have extremely long hours.

The investments vs. loans thing is definitely an issue. Most of my biglaw peers prioritized getting the loans paid off ASAP -- usually that meant putting little/nothing into 401ks, having minimal liquid savings, and having NO other investment accounts. This is despite the fact that we graduated at a time when prevailing student loan rates were around 3% -- and the market was/has been returning far more than that. But people tend to prioritize it even if it isn't a financially savvy move bc you can make more in the market than your borrowing rate -- bc they just want to be DONE with loans. It's a mental thing that a lot of lawyers buy into.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 5th year. I have a net worth of around $0. My student loan balance is barely better than when I graduated, but my house equity + retirement is now worth more than my debt, so at least I have that.

So no, no "significant net worth." I'm trying to leave now but my offers have been too low to swallow.

I'm not in Law at all. Curious what someone at your level makes (salary + bonus) and how much debt you started off with. Have a kid who wants to be a lawyer but the picture you paint seems scary.

NP -- these days a 5th yr has to be around 300k or close to it (my guess -- I left a few yrs ago before the latest round of raises). I'm more curious about the debt -- how much did you start with that you've barely made a dent in 5 years? And is it low interest debt? I imagine the max amount of debt anyone could have would be around 500k -- at 70k/yr for 4 yrs undergrad + 3 law assuming you went private for all of it and didn't receive a single $ of grant money or parental help.

PP said that their loan was 160K to start with. Paying off over 5 years would have been about 40K/yr (once you build in interest) or about 3K/month once you factor in interest.

Kinda hard to say if it's a big deal or not depending on your other commitments.

You're right that, if I had paid $3k/mo toward my loans from year one, I could be debt-free today. I know people who made paying off the debt their sole focus and are close now. I had to pay for childcare and chose to pay into retirement and DP savings instead.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 5th year. I have a net worth of around $0. My student loan balance is barely better than when I graduated, but my house equity + retirement is now worth more than my debt, so at least I have that.

So no, no "significant net worth." I'm trying to leave now but my offers have been too low to swallow.

I'm not in Law at all. Curious what someone at your level makes (salary + bonus) and how much debt you started off with. Have a kid who wants to be a lawyer but the picture you paint seems scary.

NP -- these days a 5th yr has to be around 300k or close to it (my guess -- I left a few yrs ago before the latest round of raises). I'm more curious about the debt -- how much did you start with that you've barely made a dent in 5 years? And is it low interest debt? I imagine the max amount of debt anyone could have would be around 500k -- at 70k/yr for 4 yrs undergrad + 3 law assuming you went private for all of it and didn't receive a single $ of grant money or parental help.

PP said that their loan was 160K to start with. Paying off over 5 years would have been about 40K/yr (once you build in interest) or about 3K/month once you factor in interest.

Kinda hard to say if it's a big deal or not depending on your other commitments.

Anonymous wrote:My BFF accomplished what I think you're trying to do (DH and I were also big firm lawyers leaving in our 5th yrs and like the PP above -- left with the type of NW 18:09 is describing).

OTOH my BFF -- stayed in firm life until yr 8-9 when she was pushed out bc of not making partner. Left with a NW of 3/4 of a million. She had law school loans but they weren't huge as far as loans go -- probably 75-100k. Staying until year 8 was beneficial bc bonuses become much larger in later years, though you have to be willing to stay and work 24-7 bc firms tend to push out a lot of people before the can even get past the mid level yrs. She also got into investing in a big way in her 5th-6th yrs so she was able to grow her NW that way. And let's be honest a lot of this is how you want to live and work. For my BFF -- lived in a nice area but a very normal/not lavish apartment bc she was only going there to sleep and shower; she took maybe 2 vacations in 8 yrs -- both to Florida staying at Hiltons. But for her, she didn't feel like she was missing out by not vacationing in Europe or getting a bigger apt (this was in NYC - houses aren't an option) bc she honestly lived to work.

She was really down after she didn't make partner and was told to go -- she didn't secure a job before leaving, didn't look for work for like a yr, and as her parents/friends were getting worried about what she'd do financially -- she then let it be known that she wasn't worried due how much she had amassed. 2 yrs later, she has the kind of 150k job that you mention, and I don't get the sense she's financially concerned. I have to imagine this combo of going the distance on the associate path, saving, maximizing via investing, and frugal-ish living isn't super common though. Other than her, I've never heard of other associates feeling like they are "set" when they leave. DH and I certainly weren't, nor were our other mutual friends from what we can tell.

Damn. She really made the most of biglaw then. I'm not sure if I've EVER heard of this type of outcome - and esp not for someone who wasn't already coming in with family wealth.

Not a super common scenario at all to walk out the door in 6 years with significant net worth (or really any net worth). It's a function of law school loans (if you have them), along with the fact that this is the age when lots of people are saving a down payment on a house and paying for a wedding -- by the time those things are done, like the PPs you're lucky if you break even at 0 or like 50k or 100k when you look at your remaining loans vs. assets such as 401k/home equity.

For me and everyone I know, the "real" saving and net worth building started at our post biglaw jobs -- and obviously goes MUCH slower since most people take a pay cut at least initially (and sometimes forever if you can't build back up to being an executive in house or partner at a midlaw firm etc.).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 5th year. I have a net worth of around $0. My student loan balance is barely better than when I graduated, but my house equity + retirement is now worth more than my debt, so at least I have that.

So no, no "significant net worth." I'm trying to leave now but my offers have been too low to swallow.

I'm not in Law at all. Curious what someone at your level makes (salary + bonus) and how much debt you started off with. Have a kid who wants to be a lawyer but the picture you paint seems scary.

NP -- these days a 5th yr has to be around 300k or close to it (my guess -- I left a few yrs ago before the latest round of raises). I'm more curious about the debt -- how much did you start with that you've barely made a dent in 5 years? And is it low interest debt? I imagine the max amount of debt anyone could have would be around 500k -- at 70k/yr for 4 yrs undergrad + 3 law assuming you went private for all of it and didn't receive a single $ of grant money or parental help.

I haven't made more progress because 1) had kids 2) live in DC metro area with that COL 3) didn't focus on paying down debt but instead max out tax-advantaged retirement and bought a house. I have a bunch of friends/classmates who chose otherwise and threw every available penny at debt. They also have a similar net worth (so no house, almost no retirement, but almost no debt).

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 5th year. I have a net worth of around $0. My student loan balance is barely better than when I graduated, but my house equity + retirement is now worth more than my debt, so at least I have that.

So no, no "significant net worth." I'm trying to leave now but my offers have been too low to swallow.

I am a 6th year and this is me too. I'm not looking to leave for another two years at least, though, and am not too worried about being laid off before then.

In the next couple of years I hope to work my student loan balance down significantly. I probably won't get it to zero before leaving, but I'm hopeful.

FYI, I only had law school loans -- full price for a T6.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 5th year. I have a net worth of around $0. My student loan balance is barely better than when I graduated, but my house equity + retirement is now worth more than my debt, so at least I have that.

So no, no "significant net worth." I'm trying to leave now but my offers have been too low to swallow.

I'm not in Law at all. Curious what someone at your level makes (salary + bonus) and how much debt you started off with. Have a kid who wants to be a lawyer but the picture you paint seems scary.

NP -- these days a 5th yr has to be around 300k or close to it (my guess -- I left a few yrs ago before the latest round of raises). I'm more curious about the debt -- how much did you start with that you've barely made a dent in 5 years? And is it low interest debt? I imagine the max amount of debt anyone could have would be around 500k -- at 70k/yr for 4 yrs undergrad + 3 law assuming you went private for all of it and didn't receive a single $ of grant money or parental help.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 5th year. I have a net worth of around $0. My student loan balance is barely better than when I graduated, but my house equity + retirement is now worth more than my debt, so at least I have that.

So no, no "significant net worth." I'm trying to leave now but my offers have been too low to swallow.

I'm not in Law at all. Curious what someone at your level makes (salary + bonus) and how much debt you started off with. Have a kid who wants to be a lawyer but the picture you paint seems scary.

I gradated with $160k in debt from law school. Had no UG debt. I make "Cravath market" which you can google yourself. Tho when I started, first years only made $160k, so I haven't made the current scale this whole time.

My BFF accomplished what I think you're trying to do (DH and I were also big firm lawyers leaving in our 5th yrs and like the PP above -- left with the type of NW 18:09 is describing).

OTOH my BFF -- stayed in firm life until yr 8-9 when she was pushed out bc of not making partner. Left with a NW of 3/4 of a million. She had law school loans but they weren't huge as far as loans go -- probably 75-100k. Staying until year 8 was beneficial bc bonuses become much larger in later years, though you have to be willing to stay and work 24-7 bc firms tend to push out a lot of people before the can even get past the mid level yrs. She also got into investing in a big way in her 5th-6th yrs so she was able to grow her NW that way. And let's be honest a lot of this is how you want to live and work. For my BFF -- lived in a nice area but a very normal/not lavish apartment bc she was only going there to sleep and shower; she took maybe 2 vacations in 8 yrs -- both to Florida staying at Hiltons. But for her, she didn't feel like she was missing out by not vacationing in Europe or getting a bigger apt (this was in NYC - houses aren't an option) bc she honestly lived to work.

She was really down after she didn't make partner and was told to go -- she didn't secure a job before leaving, didn't look for work for like a yr, and as her parents/friends were getting worried about what she'd do financially -- she then let it be known that she wasn't worried due how much she had amassed. 2 yrs later, she has the kind of 150k job that you mention, and I don't get the sense she's financially concerned. I have to imagine this combo of going the distance on the associate path, saving, maximizing via investing, and frugal-ish living isn't super common though. Other than her, I've never heard of other associates feeling like they are "set" when they leave. DH and I certainly weren't, nor were our other mutual friends from what we can tell.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 5th year. I have a net worth of around $0. My student loan balance is barely better than when I graduated, but my house equity + retirement is now worth more than my debt, so at least I have that.

So no, no "significant net worth." I'm trying to leave now but my offers have been too low to swallow.

I'm not in Law at all. Curious what someone at your level makes (salary + bonus) and how much debt you started off with. Have a kid who wants to be a lawyer but the picture you paint seems scary.

I'm a 5th year. I have a net worth of around $0. My student loan balance is barely better than when I graduated, but my house equity + retirement is now worth more than my debt, so at least I have that.

So no, no "significant net worth." I'm trying to leave now but my offers have been too low to swallow.

If you left biglaw as an associate whether bc you didn’t make partner or didn’t want to be a partner or wanted to move away or whatever, when did you leave (how many yrs post law school) and what was your net worth when walking out the door?

Am a junior associate at a firm that has openly announced that it won’t make any partners in my large department for several years. Associates are being kept busy on small cases, but we just aren’t seeing the large cases that used to be staffed with 10 people working 80-100 hour weeks, so I’m thinking there’s a biz gen problem up top somewhere. As I’m seeing the mid levels and seniors scramble to get out bc they feel like they’ll be asked to go before they’ve landed jobs, while some juniors are looking to lateral to other firms while others are seeing if they can wait it out for 1-2 years to see if the firm rights the ship since partnership is a long long way away. I’ve realized the instability of all of this and am trying to plan my financial life so that if I don’t ever make partner/get pushed out somewhere along the line in my career as a mid/senior, I can “downgrade” to a 150k job that’ll pay my daily bills and live happily ever after bc most of my nest egg was already made/invested in my big firm days. Yet looking at the mids/seniors panic, I’m thinking most are not in this situation.

So for those of you who’ve already left biglaw – how much did you leave with and if you took a lower paying job, was that a financial stretch or was it just fine financially? Is it unrealistic to think that you can walk out of biglaw in say 6 years with a significant net worth (significant for a 31 year old, not significant compared to a 50 yr old partner)?