Anonymous
Post 03/17/2018 07:35     Subject: Read Hillbilly Elegy, reading Evicted
Have one kid if you are on welfare and struggling and no more.

Give that child the best chance to grow up and escape poverty bc there is a much better chance to do that when you only have to provide for one child.
Anonymous
Post 03/17/2018 07:00     Subject: Read Hillbilly Elegy, reading Evicted
If you haven’t already, read Nickled and Dimed. It should be required reading but especially for anyone who hires a cleaning service or who has never had a service or minimum wage job.
Anonymous
Post 03/16/2018 15:20     Subject: Read Hillbilly Elegy, reading Evicted
Anonymous wrote:And getting ready to read Educated.

Really wondering how a select few impoverished individuals—against all odds—rise up and overcome their situation, while the majority follow along the status quo. And is this parallel to the wealthy child who has doors open for him everywhere he turns, yet chooses a a lesser path despite his privilege?

In the end, does it really matter the hand we are dealt, or just how we choose to lay down our cards?

They had someone in their lives who helped them--a teacher, an aunt or uncle, a school counselor, a family friend, one of their parents, whoever. Someone who helped them figure out how to apply for and attend college. Someone who nurtured their dreams. People who have that, have a chance. People who don't, and are surrounded by people telling them that they can't succeed, telling them not to dream big, telling them that they aren't good enough--those people rarely make it out.

The hand you are dealt matters a lot. A mediocre person born into wealth has much better odds than an exceptional person born into poverty.
Anonymous
Post 03/16/2018 14:55     Subject: Read Hillbilly Elegy, reading Evicted
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am not a practicing social worker, but have a social work degree. One of my best professors told us to remember that those who "beat the odds" are the outliers and not the standard-bearers. We don't say that because people go to the Olympics that anyone who skis or dives or ice skates should be able to attain that level of performance.


Exactly.
Studies show that a person born in 1986 in the lowest SES quintile has only a 9% of moving up to the top. So congrats to those who manage to do it, but it less than 10% of poor people. I would not be surprised to see that figure shrink further as that income gap -- and services gap -- widens.

https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21595437-america-no-less-socially-mobile-it-was-generation-ago-mobility-measured

And you shouldn't have to be exceptional to have a decent life. There are plenty of irresponsible people born to wealthy parents--the consequences of their mistakes are minimized by the wealth or connections or status of their families. Poor people don't have that cushion. Even a minor mistake, or even a complete accident, can totally derail their lives.

Yes, some exceptional people manage to escape poverty. Almost all of the time, they had at least one adult who was willing and able to help them, mentor them, encourage their ambitions, explain how to get scholarships, etc. Without that, even an exceptional person can find it too hard to get out. The hand you are dealt matters a lot. Yes, how you play your hand matters, but you can only do so much.
Anonymous
Post 03/16/2018 14:08     Subject: Read Hillbilly Elegy, reading Evicted
11:50 - Part of the problem is that some of these folks were on the financial edge to begin with- limited education, limited skills, low-paying jobs- and probably should not have had as many kids as they did. If you're already living hand-to-mouth and month-to-month, you should do everything in your power to avoid having kids or more kids. (This is where I sound like a Republican and not the lifelong Dem that I am.) I'm ok with providing benefits to the kids you have (and subsidized birth control) but it does piss me off when people keep having kids they can't afford. I know, sex is fun, but kids are expensive. And it's unfair to them to put them in a situation where they don't know where they are living from month to month or if they are going to eat that day.
Anonymous
Post 03/16/2018 12:26     Subject: Read Hillbilly Elegy, reading Evicted
Anonymous wrote:I am not a practicing social worker, but have a social work degree. One of my best professors told us to remember that those who "beat the odds" are the outliers and not the standard-bearers. We don't say that because people go to the Olympics that anyone who skis or dives or ice skates should be able to attain that level of performance.


Exactly.
Studies show that a person born in 1986 in the lowest SES quintile has only a 9% of moving up to the top. So congrats to those who manage to do it, but it less than 10% of poor people. I would not be surprised to see that figure shrink further as that income gap -- and services gap -- widens.

https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21595437-america-no-less-socially-mobile-it-was-generation-ago-mobility-measured
Anonymous
Post 03/16/2018 12:23     Subject: Re:Read Hillbilly Elegy, reading Evicted
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Roland Ellis is a leading economist who grew up poor. He acknowledges that he beat the odds, but he doesn't blame people who don't. He simply but profoundly asks "So you start to think, how do we create the right structures, because -- birth is an accident; neither me nor my cousins asked to be born into Daytona Beach’s issues -- how do you create structures so that people don’t just beat the odds, but so that you change the damn odds."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/30/roland-fryer-on-beating-the-odds-change-the-damn-odds/?utm_term=.39d483e9bba4


As far as I can tell (working in anti-poverty advocacy for decades), the only way to prevent poverty is to not bring babies into the world unless you can afford to provide for them...as well as love and nurture them. Of course, there's no way to legislate such a thing.

You'll notice as you read Evicted (or google it) that families with kids are evicted at a much higher rate. Childless poor people have more options: they can more easily work jobs that entail irregular shifts, they can have a side gig, they can rent a room (rather than an apartment or house) and keep costs low thanks to roommates, no childcare costs or worries, no missed work because kids are sick, etc.

This sounds very reasonable until you start to consider daycare costs. So only wealthy people should be allowed to have kids?


This is one of the biggest differences between those who make it and those who don't.


To the pp who commented on child care embedded in the quote:

There's a difference between having kids without a partner and without a high school degree beginning in the 10th grade (which is oftentimes the case for female heads of households in poverty and subsidized housing) and those who delay childbearing until they've married and have jobs. Your DCUM struggle with childcare costs isn't the same as those living in poverty.

Some people stop at one child. Others delay having a second until the first starts kindergarten. These are strategies of responsible adults.
Anonymous
Post 03/16/2018 12:15     Subject: Read Hillbilly Elegy, reading Evicted
I am not a practicing social worker, but have a social work degree. One of my best professors told us to remember that those who "beat the odds" are the outliers and not the standard-bearers. We don't say that because people go to the Olympics that anyone who skis or dives or ice skates should be able to attain that level of performance.
Anonymous
Post 03/16/2018 12:00     Subject: Re:Read Hillbilly Elegy, reading Evicted
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Roland Ellis is a leading economist who grew up poor. He acknowledges that he beat the odds, but he doesn't blame people who don't. He simply but profoundly asks "So you start to think, how do we create the right structures, because -- birth is an accident; neither me nor my cousins asked to be born into Daytona Beach’s issues -- how do you create structures so that people don’t just beat the odds, but so that you change the damn odds."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/30/roland-fryer-on-beating-the-odds-change-the-damn-odds/?utm_term=.39d483e9bba4


As far as I can tell (working in anti-poverty advocacy for decades), the only way to prevent poverty is to not bring babies into the world unless you can afford to provide for them...as well as love and nurture them. Of course, there's no way to legislate such a thing.

You'll notice as you read Evicted (or google it) that families with kids are evicted at a much higher rate. Childless poor people have more options: they can more easily work jobs that entail irregular shifts, they can have a side gig, they can rent a room (rather than an apartment or house) and keep costs low thanks to roommates, no childcare costs or worries, no missed work because kids are sick, etc.

This sounds very reasonable until you start to consider daycare costs. So only wealthy people should be allowed to have kids?


This is one of the biggest differences between those who make it and those who don't.



Only responsible people should have children. By saying "allowed" it implies only wealth is correlated to responsibility.
Anonymous
Post 03/16/2018 11:54     Subject: Re:Read Hillbilly Elegy, reading Evicted
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Roland Ellis is a leading economist who grew up poor. He acknowledges that he beat the odds, but he doesn't blame people who don't. He simply but profoundly asks "So you start to think, how do we create the right structures, because -- birth is an accident; neither me nor my cousins asked to be born into Daytona Beach’s issues -- how do you create structures so that people don’t just beat the odds, but so that you change the damn odds."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/30/roland-fryer-on-beating-the-odds-change-the-damn-odds/?utm_term=.39d483e9bba4


As far as I can tell (working in anti-poverty advocacy for decades), the only way to prevent poverty is to not bring babies into the world unless you can afford to provide for them...as well as love and nurture them. Of course, there's no way to legislate such a thing.

You'll notice as you read Evicted (or google it) that families with kids are evicted at a much higher rate. Childless poor people have more options: they can more easily work jobs that entail irregular shifts, they can have a side gig, they can rent a room (rather than an apartment or house) and keep costs low thanks to roommates, no childcare costs or worries, no missed work because kids are sick, etc.

This sounds very reasonable until you start to consider daycare costs. So only wealthy people should be allowed to have kids?


This is one of the biggest differences between those who make it and those who don't.
Anonymous
Post 03/16/2018 11:51     Subject: Re:Read Hillbilly Elegy, reading Evicted
Who knows why some people succeed and some fail. I too grew up dirt poor. The type of poor where we drank only powdered milk and never had anything that was not a casserole for dinner. I thought rich people could get single pieces of meat like a chicken leg or something for dinner. All of my siblings and I are college educated thanks to student loans. 100%. The only difference is probably my parents raised us with the expectation that we would to go to college. There was not an option. Even though we did not know how college was going to be paid for or how it was going to be accomplished, it was still an expectation. My parents didn’t even know a lot about student loans. We had to figure it out on our own.
Anonymous
Post 03/16/2018 11:50     Subject: Re:Read Hillbilly Elegy, reading Evicted
Anonymous wrote:Roland Ellis is a leading economist who grew up poor. He acknowledges that he beat the odds, but he doesn't blame people who don't. He simply but profoundly asks "So you start to think, how do we create the right structures, because -- birth is an accident; neither me nor my cousins asked to be born into Daytona Beach’s issues -- how do you create structures so that people don’t just beat the odds, but so that you change the damn odds."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/30/roland-fryer-on-beating-the-odds-change-the-damn-odds/?utm_term=.39d483e9bba4


As far as I can tell (working in anti-poverty advocacy for decades), the only way to prevent poverty is to not bring babies into the world unless you can afford to provide for them...as well as love and nurture them. Of course, there's no way to legislate such a thing.

You'll notice as you read Evicted (or google it) that families with kids are evicted at a much higher rate. Childless poor people have more options: they can more easily work jobs that entail irregular shifts, they can have a side gig, they can rent a room (rather than an apartment or house) and keep costs low thanks to roommates, no childcare costs or worries, no missed work because kids are sick, etc.

This is one of the biggest differences between those who make it and those who don't.
Anonymous
Post 03/16/2018 11:31     Subject: Re:Read Hillbilly Elegy, reading Evicted
Roland Ellis is a leading economist who grew up poor. He acknowledges that he beat the odds, but he doesn't blame people who don't. He simply but profoundly asks "So you start to think, how do we create the right structures, because -- birth is an accident; neither me nor my cousins asked to be born into Daytona Beach’s issues -- how do you create structures so that people don’t just beat the odds, but so that you change the damn odds."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/30/roland-fryer-on-beating-the-odds-change-the-damn-odds/?utm_term=.39d483e9bba4
Anonymous
Post 03/16/2018 11:27     Subject: Read Hillbilly Elegy, reading Evicted
I have this open right now, and think it should be read alongside Hillbilly Elegy: https://www.guernicamag.com/elizabeth-catte-appalachia-isnt-trump-country/
Anonymous
Post 03/16/2018 11:22     Subject: Read Hillbilly Elegy, reading Evicted
And getting ready to read Educated.

Really wondering how a select few impoverished individuals—against all odds—rise up and overcome their situation, while the majority follow along the status quo. And is this parallel to the wealthy child who has doors open for him everywhere he turns, yet chooses a a lesser path despite his privilege?

In the end, does it really matter the hand we are dealt, or just how we choose to lay down our cards?