Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. This is a hard one.

I know from experience that not inviting the mean girls will almost certainly means that your kid will start getting bullied by them.

If you try to do separate activities with either your DD and the mean girls or DD and the one friend, it could still lead to bullying. Example, you do something separate with the bullies and they lord it over everyone how much better/special they are to the other girls in the group. Or you take the solo friend and the mean girls find out and just bully her over that.

I’d invite everyone and the email all of the parents a note like, “I’ve heard rumblings of bullying behavior in the group. This behavior will not be tolerated. I’ll have a chat with the girls before the party starts but would appreciate if everyone reminded their kids to not bully.” Or something to that effect.

I've worked with girls this age and have my own daughter and I can tell you

a.) Many moms of bullies will not even consider the fact their own child could be a bully. Denial runs deep.
b.) Relational aggression is often done in such a passive aggressive way it is hard to call someone on it and you could cause a big issue if the kid tells her parents she was falsely accused.

During years our kids are in these kind of sticky groups we just have a family birthday or allow just one friend for a special hang out. Our son also has these situations some years. If our kid chooses the bully for the hangout we decline. My kids can choose their friends, but we do nothing to help support friendships with mean kids and we talk with our kids about what truly matters in life. Life is too short to waste time obsessing over parties where kids could either be bullied or feel ostracized. This isn't about special snowflakes. It's about us not spending money entertaining kids who can't be kind to eachother and not having to police them.

Yep.

I work with girls that ge two, and there are always 2 responses from the mom of the bully girl:

1) Oh poor Larla (Queen Bee) She mentioned kids are always picking on her but I told her to rise above. Thank you for making sure no one is mean to her!

OR

2) 13 year old girls are so mean! I know Larla always looks out for others and tries to include everyone. She is such a leader and I am so glad you will help the other girls to follow her lead against bullying.

Unless you have screen shots, they will not believe Larla is the bully.

Anonymous wrote:looking over the invite list produced by DD, i notice a friend is missing. I have overheard two of dd's friends professing their dislike for the kid. DD likes her, but seems unable / unwilling to sway the group dynamic.

1. WDYD when it's your own kid who sides with the bullies?
2. Opinions for managing the trouble at hand, namely the guest list

Making DD invite this girl can lead to hurt feelings; not inviting her will lead to hurt feelings; I'm contemplating asking DD to scratch the two kids who bully off the list, or figure out how to make peace for a night. Not sure they know how, though, because apparently the moms are also involved in bad mouthing this kid's family.

Thoughts?

What if you gave your daughter choices?

1. Don't invite the two kids you don't trust to behave themselves.
2. Invite all three kids (the two you don't trust to behave themselves, and the one they dislike), and stay in the room the whole time. (Though a motivated non-behaving kid will find ways to get around your monitoring.)
3. Have a very small party, only two kids plus your daughter.
3. Do something else for her 13th birthday, NOT a party.

Anonymous wrote:Wow. This is a hard one.

I know from experience that not inviting the mean girls will almost certainly means that your kid will start getting bullied by them.

If you try to do separate activities with either your DD and the mean girls or DD and the one friend, it could still lead to bullying. Example, you do something separate with the bullies and they lord it over everyone how much better/special they are to the other girls in the group. Or you take the solo friend and the mean girls find out and just bully her over that.

I’d invite everyone and the email all of the parents a note like, “I’ve heard rumblings of bullying behavior in the group. This behavior will not be tolerated. I’ll have a chat with the girls before the party starts but would appreciate if everyone reminded their kids to not bully.” Or something to that effect.

I've worked with girls this age and have my own daughter and I can tell you

a.) Many moms of bullies will not even consider the fact their own child could be a bully. Denial runs deep.
b.) Relational aggression is often done in such a passive aggressive way it is hard to call someone on it and you could cause a big issue if the kid tells her parents she was falsely accused.

During years our kids are in these kind of sticky groups we just have a family birthday or allow just one friend for a special hang out. Our son also has these situations some years. If our kid chooses the bully for the hangout we decline. My kids can choose their friends, but we do nothing to help support friendships with mean kids and we talk with our kids about what truly matters in life. Life is too short to waste time obsessing over parties where kids could either be bullied or feel ostracized. This isn't about special snowflakes. It's about us not spending money entertaining kids who can't be kind to eachother and not having to police them.

If it were me, I would strongly encourage DD to invite the girl after a long talk to discuss how we interact with people -- both good friends and those who just happen to be nearby as we journey through life.
Then I would hover the heck out of that party and make sure everyone understands that poor behavior, bullying, meanness, isn't tolerated in my house.

Wow. This is a hard one.

I know from experience that not inviting the mean girls will almost certainly means that your kid will start getting bullied by them.

If you try to do separate activities with either your DD and the mean girls or DD and the one friend, it could still lead to bullying. Example, you do something separate with the bullies and they lord it over everyone how much better/special they are to the other girls in the group. Or you take the solo friend and the mean girls find out and just bully her over that.

I’d invite everyone and the email all of the parents a note like, “I’ve heard rumblings of bullying behavior in the group. This behavior will not be tolerated. I’ll have a chat with the girls before the party starts but would appreciate if everyone reminded their kids to not bully.” Or something to that effect.

What is the party plan? I'm with the pp that suggested a more controlled environment. Can you take the girls to the movies and then out for lunch vs watching a dvd at home? The second option is going to go down hill fast.

When given the choice between what's right and what's kind, always choose kind.

You shouldn't knowingly create/allow a situation where there could be tension, thinking you'll teach the bullies a lesson or make the targeted kid feel included. It simply won't have that outcome.

I think your choices are:

-- Exclude the bullies. This has a natural consequences piece and also sends a message to your DD about choosing to associate with good friends. However, this is kind of an immature age and there could be blowback for your DD.

-- Insist on inviting everyone. Again, could lead to problems and probably won't leave the targeted child actually feeling good at the end of the day. This would really only make YOU feel good. Also possible targeted kid will decline when sees invite list.

-- Plan a separate event with DD and the targeted kid. A little goofy, but less potential for conflict. But if you do this, maybe ramp down the "party" too.

I think 13 is tough. They aren’t little girls anymore that you can manage via activity or monitor their relationships 100% of the time. The easiest thing is to opt out of a party and do a family event only. Save the big party for when she turns 16... if you want to go forward (understandably) you could do a lunch at a favorite restaurant with all the girls and arrange the seating and then send them home...minimize the chance for bad behavior... good luck and I appreciate how you are thinking this through to give your daughter the tools to be her nice, strong self. It’s a tough age.

Anonymous wrote:Have you actually observed bullying behavior or is this just kids who don’t all get along? These are not the same things.

What does your daughter say is the reason for not inviting the friend? I think 13 is pretty old to be dictating birthday lists. Would have been better to speak up and/or discourage the friendship with the bullies before the party, if they are actually bullies.

They aee most likely bullies.

Have you actually observed bullying behavior or is this just kids who don’t all get along? These are not the same things.

What does your daughter say is the reason for not inviting the friend? I think 13 is pretty old to be dictating birthday lists. Would have been better to speak up and/or discourage the friendship with the bullies before the party, if they are actually bullies.

Avoid the celebration entirely.

Here is my perspective from a former minnion of the mean girl (she was my best friend but turned nasty when her parents had a nasty divorce) and the mom of the 6th grade boy who got bullied and iced by his friend when and alpha male bully got permanently assigned to their lunch table.

When any of us got together with the victim and the bully was there, we all were pretty merciless. The queen bee would go all out, and the others would either jump in (not usually me) and or give support or approval by either laughing along or not saying anything (what I usually did and probably what your daughter does). When the bully was not there we treated the victim well and enjoyed her company. That poor girl! Her parents would arrange one on one get togethers and sleepovers separately with the other girls, or just the bully, hoping to build friendships. Those would go great but once Queen Bee got into her element in front of her minnions, the bullying would pick right up again. I think that made it worse for the girl because she would have hope then it was back to bullying.

My son was bullied but as long as the bully was not around the friend group was great. The bully never seemed to be invited to the same parties with the friend group (I don't think the moms liked him) so my son was able to enjoy time with his gang free of the bully and that stress. During that long year, having time with his friends that was not the mom arranged pity play date made all the difference in the world and helped him get through that time.

My vote is to include the girl and not the two mean girls, and make sure it is a small enough group where your daughter can say "My mom only let me invite four people"

The feelings I'm looking to protect are the targeted girl's. I worry that if she comes, she will be made miserable. I will be hovering and helping, but at the end of the day, it takes only a subtle snub to have a big impact. These are freshly minted teenagers, not mature adults, and feelings are volatile. These two girls have already mused that if she comes, she will be alone, essentially setting the expectation for the entire group on what the "expected" behavior should be.

So if DD is worried about how her friend will feel, I will take that information at face value.

Options I'm looking at:
- not inviting these two girls who are stirring this issue. This is pretty much a nuclear option -- lots of tears and possibly retribution at school.
- sending the invite, but having a conversation with the mom, so that she might be on hand, and looking in the group for a designated "buddy".
- sending the invite, but offering the option of an outing just with DD and the targeted girl, in case she does not feel like braving the crowd
- come to think of it, maybe the party *should* be with the group, and have a separate outing with the two trouble makers -- option 1, less nuclear.
- having a stern conversation with the two kids before the party setting up an "instant end" if anyone is mean.

Any moms of older teens out there? I've never seen something quite like this...

Do what is right, not what you think will hurt less feelings.

In this case, I think doing what's right is to invite them all. You must impress upon your DD the notion that all it takes for evil to fester is for the good to do nothing. If she likes that friend, she needs to be a good friend and invite her. If the others don't like it, and the worst-case scenario happens (they stop being DD's friends, or don't come to her party) then you can deal with that then. Your DD will have been on the right side of this, and will have learned from you that she should have been.

BTW this goes for weddings, too. When two individuals don't like each other (Aunt Sally won't come if cousin Larla is there), then invite both. If you must choose, always choose the one who did not pressure you to choose.

looking over the invite list produced by DD, i notice a friend is missing. I have overheard two of dd's friends professing their dislike for the kid. DD likes her, but seems unable / unwilling to sway the group dynamic.

1. WDYD when it's your own kid who sides with the bullies?
2. Opinions for managing the trouble at hand, namely the guest list

Making DD invite this girl can lead to hurt feelings; not inviting her will lead to hurt feelings; I'm contemplating asking DD to scratch the two kids who bully off the list, or figure out how to make peace for a night. Not sure they know how, though, because apparently the moms are also involved in bad mouthing this kid's family.

Thoughts?