The issue is that the public isn't aware about need-based aid, and the families who'd benefit the most balk immediately at the sticker price. These LACs and other private universities need to work on their communication and outreach to target high-achieving students from all walks of life.

The Net Price Calculator was a pleasant surprise for us. We're not rich by NoVA standards ($130K/yr in HHI) and we don't have a lot saved for college, but running the NPC for schools like Mount Holyoke, Davidson, Dickinson, etc., we found our contribution to be in the $30K - $35K range. Not zero, but not $70K, either.

Anonymous wrote:The link for Williams is a bit hard to read, but I find it interesting for the others that the Florida numbers are so low. I'm going to avoid a comparison with the regional states and look at other states.

Swarthmore (in Pennsylvania) says 36 students are from Florida while 180 are from California. Florida has half the population of California, so it's severely underrepresented.

Pomona (in California) says 42 students are from Florida and 80 are from New York. Both states have similar populations...again, underrepresented.

Carleton (in Minnesota) says 5 from 2021 are from Florida while 61 are from California- the most stark discrepancy yet.

I found Bowdoin (in Maine) as well- https://www.bowdoin.edu/ir/data/entering-first-year-class.shtml- 7 from Florida, 53 from California. As stark as Carleton.

For whatever reason, LACs are not popular by Florida high school students.

Most of those listed here are in places where it's way too cold to live!

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a regional phenomenon. They're national LACs drawing from most states, but they're more well-known among the private-HS group than the public-HS. And private HS's are not especially a Florida/South thing- more of a Northeast/West Coast phenomenon. You'll see that relative to its size as the third most populous state, Florida is not especially well represented.

You can see geographic background of students at several LACs:

https://admission.williams.edu/student-profile/

https://www.pomona.edu/sites/default/files/pomona-college-admissions-2016-17-profile.pdf

https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-research/geogstates.pdf

https://apps.carleton.edu/admissions/apply/requirements/profile/ (For 2021; you can view other classes in the sidebar)

Of course they'll draw more from their respective regions, but that's true for any school in the country. Stanford is 35% students from California, while Harvard is 38% students from the Northeastern USA.

A lot of private schools in the South, including in Florida. Probably more than on the west coast.

But private colleges are not a majorly recognizable destination in the south, including Florida.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a regional phenomenon. They're national LACs drawing from most states, but they're more well-known among the private-HS group than the public-HS. And private HS's are not especially a Florida/South thing- more of a Northeast/West Coast phenomenon. You'll see that relative to its size as the third most populous state, Florida is not especially well represented.

You can see geographic background of students at several LACs:

https://admission.williams.edu/student-profile/

https://www.pomona.edu/sites/default/files/pomona-college-admissions-2016-17-profile.pdf

https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-research/geogstates.pdf

https://apps.carleton.edu/admissions/apply/requirements/profile/ (For 2021; you can view other classes in the sidebar)

Of course they'll draw more from their respective regions, but that's true for any school in the country. Stanford is 35% students from California, while Harvard is 38% students from the Northeastern USA.

This. They are expensive so most public school parents can't afford them. It's an extension of private HS into college so to speak. Expensive, small class sizes, etc. One of the reasons for the high success rate of the students is that most are part of some sort of selection process over time - Elementary, MS, HS so the bottom of the pile aren't there. SLACs probably also don't cater to all the social engineering whims of society that large public schools are obligated to. Hence the higher student success rate.

This is a misconception. Yes, their sticker price is expensive, but they have very generous financial aid. A student with a household income under 60K can expect a full ride from most top LACs, while a student with a household income under 100K can expect at least full tuition. Several are no-loan schools as well: Amherst, Pomona, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Davidson, Colby, Washington and Lee. Some are no-loan for low income students, like Vassar, Wesleyan, and Wellesley. The hardest part is getting in, but these colleges will do what they can to bring you there affordably.

The issue is that the public isn't aware about need-based aid, and the families who'd benefit the most balk immediately at the sticker price. These LACs and other private universities need to work on their communication and outreach to target high-achieving students from all walks of life.

Anonymous wrote:The link for Williams is a bit hard to read, but I find it interesting for the others that the Florida numbers are so low. I'm going to avoid a comparison with the regional states and look at other states.

Swarthmore (in Pennsylvania) says 36 students are from Florida while 180 are from California. Florida has half the population of California, so it's severely underrepresented.

Pomona (in California) says 42 students are from Florida and 80 are from New York. Both states have similar populations...again, underrepresented.

Carleton (in Minnesota) says 5 from 2021 are from Florida while 61 are from California- the most stark discrepancy yet.

I found Bowdoin (in Maine) as well- https://www.bowdoin.edu/ir/data/entering-first-year-class.shtml- 7 from Florida, 53 from California. As stark as Carleton.

For whatever reason, LACs are not popular by Florida high school students.

Not surprising......we’re talking about Florida after all.

The link for Williams is a bit hard to read, but I find it interesting for the others that the Florida numbers are so low. I'm going to avoid a comparison with the regional states and look at other states.

Swarthmore (in Pennsylvania) says 36 students are from Florida while 180 are from California. Florida has half the population of California, so it's severely underrepresented.

Pomona (in California) says 42 students are from Florida and 80 are from New York. Both states have similar populations...again, underrepresented.

Carleton (in Minnesota) says 5 from 2021 are from Florida while 61 are from California- the most stark discrepancy yet.

I found Bowdoin (in Maine) as well- https://www.bowdoin.edu/ir/data/entering-first-year-class.shtml- 7 from Florida, 53 from California. As stark as Carleton.

For whatever reason, LACs are not popular by Florida high school students.

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a regional phenomenon. They're national LACs drawing from most states, but they're more well-known among the private-HS group than the public-HS. And private HS's are not especially a Florida/South thing- more of a Northeast/West Coast phenomenon. You'll see that relative to its size as the third most populous state, Florida is not especially well represented.

You can see geographic background of students at several LACs:

https://admission.williams.edu/student-profile/

https://www.pomona.edu/sites/default/files/pomona-college-admissions-2016-17-profile.pdf

https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-research/geogstates.pdf

https://apps.carleton.edu/admissions/apply/requirements/profile/ (For 2021; you can view other classes in the sidebar)

Of course they'll draw more from their respective regions, but that's true for any school in the country. Stanford is 35% students from California, while Harvard is 38% students from the Northeastern USA.

This. They are expensive so most public school parents can't afford them. It's an extension of private HS into college so to speak. Expensive, small class sizes, etc. One of the reasons for the high success rate of the students is that most are part of some sort of selection process over time - Elementary, MS, HS so the bottom of the pile aren't there. SLACs probably also don't cater to all the social engineering whims of society that large public schools are obligated to. Hence the higher student success rate.

The oldest colleges are going to be in the oldest states, i.e., the northeast. That's also where a lot of old prep schools are, which feed into these elite colleges.

Personally, I had no interest in, nor had I heard of many, small LACs when I was applying, some 30 years ago (from NY, BTW). The Ivies, sure but I was not familiar with the Maine LACs. However, having attended two state flagships for undergrad and grad school, I can see the draw for smaller classes and excellent teaching from great professors. We took my daughter to visit a small LAC last week and she loved it and I don't think she'll be as enamored with state flagships simply because of the size. To each their own, though.

There is a regional skew but selective LACs attract students from across the country and around the world. If OP hadn’t heard of NESCAC schools that says more about her than about the reputation of the schools.

I think there is a regional phenomenon. They're national LACs drawing from most states, but they're more well-known among the private-HS group than the public-HS. And private HS's are not especially a Florida/South thing- more of a Northeast/West Coast phenomenon. You'll see that relative to its size as the third most populous state, Florida is not especially well represented.

You can see geographic background of students at several LACs:

https://admission.williams.edu/student-profile/

https://www.pomona.edu/sites/default/files/pomona-college-admissions-2016-17-profile.pdf

https://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/institutional-research/geogstates.pdf

https://apps.carleton.edu/admissions/apply/requirements/profile/ (For 2021; you can view other classes in the sidebar)

Of course they'll draw more from their respective regions, but that's true for any school in the country. Stanford is 35% students from California, while Harvard is 38% students from the Northeastern USA.

SLACs are concentrated in the NE and Midwest. I did find it interesting that the previous voluminous reply did not cite any college outside of the NE.

St. Mary's College of Maryland?

Yes, but as I said the specific schools mentioned above were not on my radar as a kid in South Florida. The service academies, yes. State flagships? Yes. Catholic universities? But small, northeastern liberal arts colleges? No. Some Southern one, like Davidson and Wake Forest? Yes. I guess, what I am saying, is that this appears to be regional and there are schools that end up on a student's list b/c of the are of the country they grow up in.

LACs pack substantially above their weight despite being a destination for under 2% of college-matriculates.

Of the top 50 schools enrolling the students with the highest SAT/ACT scores, 18 are SLACs: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-610-smartest-colleges-in-america-2015-9

The top 50 feeder schools for a selection of elite medical, law, and business schools has 22 SLACs: https://hubpages.com/education/Wall-Street-Journal-College-Rankings-The-Full-List-and-Rating-Criteria

Among the top 25 schools leading to the highest production of PhDs, 15 are SLACs: https://www.swarthmore.edu/institutional-research/doctorates-awarded

According to the component ranking Forbes uses for its combined university/LAC ranking, several LACs rank in the top 50 for production of "American Leaders" (scientists, CEOs, politicians, etc.), including Swarthmore and Amherst in the top 10. Several LACs also rank in the top 50 for alumni receiving competitive undergraduate fellowships, including Pomona and Williams in the top 10: https://web.archive.org/web/20150131081828/http://centerforcollegeaffordability.org:80/uploads/component-rankings-2014-v2.pdf

LAC students (classified as "Baccalaureate Colleges: Arts & Sciences Focus") are substantially more likely to do research with faculty, internship/field experience, study abroad, and a culminating senior excercise than students at any other classification of colleges, including R1- highest research activity: http://nsse.indiana.edu/2017_institutional_report/pdf/HIPTables/HIP.pdf

Some LACs have among the highest graduation rates and most generous financial aid policies of any college or university in the country: https://www.kiplinger.com/tool/college/T014-S001-kiplinger-s-best-values-in-private-colleges/index.php?table=all

Retention rates at the top LACs are consistently above 90%, consistently above the national average of 66%: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/freshmen-least-most-likely-return

One consistent pattern I've seen, based on the Niche survey, is that the satisfaction with teaching is incredibly high. Compare the responses for "What Students Say about Professors" with:

Bowdoin- https://www.niche.com/colleges/bowdoin-college/academics/
Middlebury- https://www.niche.com/colleges/middlebury-college/academics/
Colby- https://www.niche.com/colleges/colby-college/academics/
Yale- https://www.niche.com/colleges/yale-university/academics/
Boston U- https://www.niche.com/colleges/boston-university/academics/
UVA- https://www.niche.com/colleges/university-of-virginia/academics/

The question about "Students say professors care about their students' success." is especially relevant. At LACs, the undergraduates are the professors' first, second, and third commitment. They are invested in their personal development outside of the classroom. Even at "large" classes (which will almost never be over 50), a professor will personally monitor and get to know every student. All labs and instruction is from experienced professionals, not TAs. These professors depend on the undergraduates for research (since there are no graduate students), making research incredibly easy to obtain. At the most elite end of LACs, the professors have overwhelmingly gotten their PhDs or terminal degree from the most prestigious universities in the country, so the level of expectation is high: http://catalog.swarthmore.edu/content.php?catoid=7&navoid=175

By no means are these experiences unique to the LACs. Some universities, like Dartmouth and William and Mary, as well as restricted honor's colleges at state schools (where courses are capped and set only for the honors students), all are similar. But it defines them to an extent it doesn't at the traditional university.

Why are small colleges like Colby, Bowdoin, Middlebury, etc. such a draw? Before I moved here from Florida I’d never heard of them. Mix of my H.S. classmates went to the state flagships and those who didn’t went to UM or out of state to the likes of Auburn, GA Tech, Davidson , UVA and William & Mary. A few went to Boston College, Georgetown and Catholic University, but that’s to be expected when you graduate from a Catholic high school. Do people outside the NE bubble really know these small, unknown schools?